Destructive Crop

[LilleG]

Is there an option in APhoto, as there is in Photoshop, to do a "Destructive" Crop?  At this point, in order to actually eliminate the cropped off area, I have to Crop, then Export as Tiff, and re-Open the Tiff.  Then I can resize and do other things without that freaking Non-Destructive Crop screwing things up.  An option to turn it off (a set-once Preference would be even better) would make the already cumbersome process to add a mat, a Stroke (Outline) and a Drop Shadow (Outer Shadow) considerably  less so.

[anon1]

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[LilleG]

MBd, I'm willing to try anything.  How does that work in terms of reliably adding a one inch (for example) transparent border around the image?  I don't want to have to count pixels trying to come up with that subtraction from the image.  Is using a clipping mask easier than what I outlined above?  I realize that I am coming from an ancient (and oh so simple to use) version of Photoshop and if there's a better way, I'm happy to learn but I'm not getting there on my own. So any and all help appreciated.

[anon1]

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[LilleG]

Thanks, MBd.  That sounds like it might be just what I need.  Gotta' go back and watch that Clipping video again though.  I've never done anything with clipping.  Never had a need (that I knew about) for it before and I'm not sure I quite understand the procedure yet.  I'll watch again, try it, and prolly be back to thank you again.

[anon1]

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[LilleG]

Thanks for the suggestions, MBd.  However, the last one didn't work either.  When I resized the layer by specifying an additional one inch from the center, I got a small blank area on the left and right, a large one on the bottom, and nothing on the top.  Crop and Resize simply do not play well together.  And I'm tired of trying to make them behave. :)  Since I have a workaround...Crop, Export as Tiff, Close image, Open Tiff...I'll just do that from now on.

[Madame]

LilleG

 

I'm not quite sure if this could help, -maybe it's worth the try?

 

Use the crop tool and expand it outside the canvas to the size you want. Then you will get a transparent "frame"  around your object.

You can use the rectangular marquee tool to crop also. Or in addition to. That will be destructive. Place the marquee where you want it, invert the selection and hit return (delete).

 

I can try to make some screenshots if you can't understand what I mean. ;)

[LilleG]

Thanks, Madame.  No need for screenshots.  You were perfectly clear.  And I did try each one.

 

The suggestion to expand the crop outside the image works great.  I can even use “Absolute Dimensions” to create the 1 inch expansion I want.  I can Save it as a Preset for reuse.  Now…to position the crop overlay precisely so that I will have 1 inch exactly on each side.  Thought I could use Guides to create a starting corner 300 pixels from the upper left corner of the image.  Won’t work because you can only see the guideline ON the image not beyond, which is where I need it to precisely place a guideline.

 

Precise placement is again the hang-up with using the marquee tool to crop the image while maintaining a transparent surround.  Plus an aesthetic crop is seldom equidistant from all sides.  

 

I do appreciate all the attempts to help.  But this has become such a “gotcha” process that would be so simple with an Option to do a destructive crop. So far, the only viable solution is to Open, Crop, Export to Tiff, Close Window, Open Tiff.  A bit cumbersome but it reliably works. 

[Madame]

I see what you mean. I too struggle with the crop tool. I usually do my cropping in Lightroom and export it into Affinity. 
Or use the clipping/resizing/transform.

And the place command is also an option if I make a blanc canvas as background layer. Then I can use the align option. Or guides.

[rsi.studio]

There needs to be some serious tweeking improvements in both the Crop Tool and Image Size Adjustment Panel. They are related after all and have you noticed that reducing a files pixel count actually makes a larger file size? Perplexing in the least.

[TonyB]

have you noticed that reducing a files pixel count actually makes a larger file size? Perplexing in the least.

 

This is to be expected if the original file was a JPEG. When you open a JPEG in Affinity and edit it non-destructively then we save the original JPEG in the Affinity file as it will be much smaller. Even if you edit some parts of the image we will then still save the original file plus the edits if that would be smaller than a complete lossless save. Only if the edits are large then we have to save the image without reference to the original because the new save would actually be smaller.

 

As far as I know, Affinity has the most advanced space saving strategy of all other photo editors when saving without lossy compression.

[LilleG]

As a matter of curiosity, why does Affinity (and other programs) assume that users are incapable of making correct editing decisions and therefore must be protected from themselves by saving things that we decided to throw away?  Non-destructive while I'm editing?  Great!  Love it.  Non-destructive when I Save?  That just seems patronizing and insulting, and leads to clumsy work-around solutions like Export as Tiff and Re-Open to actually eliminate what I no longer want in that file. Or, as in this case, what is creating problems in that file.

[TonyB]

As a matter of curiosity, why does Affinity (and other programs) assume that users are incapable of making correct editing decisions and therefore must be protected from themselves by saving things that we decided to throw away?  Non-destructive while I'm editing?  Great!  Love it.  Non-destructive when I Save?  That just seems patronizing and insulting, and leads to clumsy work-around solutions like Export as Tiff and Re-Open to actually eliminate what I no longer want in that file. Or, as in this case, what is creating problems in that file.

 

 

Mainly because our assumption is most people prefer smaller files and as explained above - non-destructive will produce smaller files. Smaller files take less room and take a shorter amount of time to load. The downsides are small and can be overcome but using the "Rasterise" command. 

 

Saying all that doesn't mean we won't add a destructive crop option in the future.

[Fixx]

Rasterize indeed destructively finalizes crop. Maybe it should be made more obvious solution (though you lose scaling/transformation benefits with this one..)

 

Smaller sizes have not much to do destructive edits. Usually when you edit you throw away information and megabytes -- in cropping truly so.

[anon1]

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[TonyB]

Smaller sizes have not much to do destructive edits. Usually when you edit you throw away information and megabytes -- in cropping truly so.

 

Not in Affinity for the reasons already stated.

[LilleG]

Uh...thought the Rasterize bit might be a simple (though un-intuitive and undocumented (?)) solution but would you elaborate on the "bad algorithm" bit, MBd?  As far as I know (which is apparently about 1/2 an inch beyond my nose  :)) Tiff is a lossless format and I lose no image quality by Exporting in it and reOpening for further editing.

[anon1]

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[LilleG]

Thanks for your input, MBd.  If not for your earlier comment, I would have opted for the easier method of rasterizing a crop and wondered why my image didn't look as good after Affinity processing as it did before I brought it in.

[Madame]

Thanks, Madame.  No need for screenshots.  You were perfectly clear.  And I did try each one.

 

The suggestion to expand the crop outside the image works great.  I can even use “Absolute Dimensions” to create the 1 inch expansion I want.  I can Save it as a Preset for reuse.  Now…to position the crop overlay precisely so that I will have 1 inch exactly on each side.  Thought I could use Guides to create a starting corner 300 pixels from the upper left corner of the image.  Won’t work because you can only see the guideline ON the image not beyond, which is where I need it to precisely place a guideline.

 

 

 

 

I haven't seen your picture, so bare with me. I experimented and found that when I use the crop tool I can use the arrange tool to position the object/picture exactly in the middle.

[LilleG]

That works great!  I'm glad you are as intrigued by a "you can't get there from here" puzzle as I usually am.  In this case, however, I had used up all of my curiosity along with my patience by the time I hit on the Export as Tiff work-around.  This is so much simpler and quicker.  Thank you for the perfect solution.

[Madame]

Love a puzzle.. ;)  And it's useful.. learn a lot that way.