select object instead of its parent group

[Schubi63]

Hi,

 

first of all - I already love Affinity Designer, bought it and think I have to do so with Affinity Photo as well, even I don't need it, but to support the continuous development on Affinity software :)

 

But I have a problem with the default behavior of selecting a group when hitting an object that is parented to a group. 

 

I see the point of having this feature. For example an icon, that consists of different shapes, combined within a group. Good.

 

But groups are also perfect for organizing your layers if you have countless objects. The current AD workflow "forces" me to either not using any groups or user CMD to select an object. I can only speak for myself - but this causes an "Arrrgh" to me every time. :D

 

In my opinion it is more likely that a user wants to click on an object without selecting its parent group. But even it is not the way I think - the workflow would be so much more efficient if you could decide what a click selects. Either the object or its group.

 

 

Suggested solutions to make everyone happy:

 

1.) Have an additional tool option (a click selects: object / group / layer) - see Photoshop

2.) make it customizable via preferences/tools (as it is for "how to select an object: via hitting its bounding box or including the whole object)

3.) make it customizable via shortcuts

          select object: click

          select group: CMD+click

          ...

 

 

 

Yes, I have seen threads here, discussing how the selection works.

I don't find CMD-click very handy or intuitive.

 

And even more I dislike the double-click, which is always 1 click more than I would really need to do.

 

>>> Have you tried to double-click on text objects within a group?

Sometimes it works and the text objet is selected. Sometimes not. The text object is selected but the cursor is activated so that you can start typing, what I don't wanted to do. So I have to additionally hit "Esc" which is another click I could easily save in my normal workflow.

>>> What happens right after you have hit "Esc"? The text tool is automatically activated. So I have to click on "V" which is another unnecessary click. And then I have to try the same process once again, from the beginning. So in the end lots of clicks for nothing.

 

 

[MEB]

Hi Schubi63,

You don't have to use groups to organise your work. Just create a generic (vector) layer and create or place all your objects inside it (third icon counting from right on the bottom of the Layers panel) and you can select them directly on canvas and still move the whole layer when needed selecting it from the Layers panel. You can also control if you want access to all layers or just a single one on a project through the Edit All Layers button on the bottom left of the Layers panel.

[Schubi63]

Hi MEB,

 

thanks a lot - I think I will do so and use layers for organizing. BUT then it would help to speed up the general workflow, if there would be the following new functionality (just similar to groups):

 

If objects are selected: 

 

1.1) the new layer contains the selected objects automatically as children

 

OR

 

1.2) AD provides a confirmation dialog to decide in that case how to handle it (to have this dialog in a comfortable way, give it a "Don't ask again - remember function" which can be altered any time in the preferences)

 

OR

 

1.3) create a second "new layer functions" which creates the new layer as a parent-layer of all selected objects (exactly the same as in Mac Finder)

 

AND 

 

2.1) provide an "ungroup"-equivalent to easily get selected objects out of their parent layer

 

 

But I would still prefer to have an extra tool option as it is provided in Photoshop (sorry to use that name here again  ;) ) as described in my first post. I see it as a very clear and intuitive way to make "both kinds of users" happy with just one option.

[R C-R]

Hi Schubi63!

 

Personally, I like your 1.1 suggestion very much. I think it would be very intuitive if the "Add Layer" button was relabeled "New Layer" & added a layer if nothing was selected & placed selected objects in the new layer if any were selected. It could be a bit confusing if layers as well as objects or groups were selected, but other than that it seems like an obvious improvement that could benefit most workflows.

 

I also like your 2.1 suggestion for an "un-layer" command, which I think could share the CMD-Shift-G command with the ungroup one, automatically operating on a layer instead of a group depending on what was selected.

 

However, I am not so keen on the other suggestions. For one thing, I hate apps that force me to choose among many limited function tools when one tool with modifier keys, double-clicks, or context sensitive behaviors will do the job faster (because it takes time to select a different tool, do whatever it can do, & then select some other tool for the next operation).

 

One of the things I love about Affinity Designer is that the Move too also functions as a skew, rotate, & resize tool without the need for any modifier keys, & as a drag duplicate tool with the Option or Command key held down. And since I use nested groups extensively & want to use any of these functions on subgroups much more frequently than on individual objects, I don't mind using a quick & easy double-click to 'drill down' into the nested group hierarchy, avoiding any time-wasting need to select another tool or move the pointer or my finger to do so.

[MEB]

Hi Schubi63,

Thanks for your feedback.

I agree that some processes can still be improved regarding layers.

I'm passing a few of these suggestions to the dev team as improvement requests but I'm not so sure about a new option to change the selection of node's types (object/layers etc). I believe it messes too much with the hierarchy logic. As I said you can use Layers instead to organise your project as those lets you pick the objects directly on canvas without double-clicking. Groups are intended to be more restricted. If you group something (like icon elements to pick your example) you probably want to move it as a whole 99% of the times. If you need to select an object from it directly to make an adjustment you can "force select" it pressing ⌘ (cmd) - and ignoring the hierarchy - which also makes sense since the group is intended to be more "constrained" than a layer.

 

 

>>> Have you tried to double-click on text objects within a group?

Sometimes it works and the text objet is selected. Sometimes not. The text object is selected but the cursor is activated so that you can start typing, what I don't wanted to do. So I have to additionally hit "Esc" which is another click I could easily save in my normal workflow.

>>> What happens right after you have hit "Esc"? The text tool is automatically activated. So I have to click on "V" which is another unnecessary click. And then I have to try the same process once again, from the beginning. So in the end lots of clicks for nothing.

 

1. There's a logic behind this. The first time you double click a text object within a group (Move Tool) you have simply entered into the group and the text object becomes selected like any other object. If you now double click another text object while inside the same group then you enter in text editing mode. So the behaviour depends on if you are selecting text objects within the same group or not.

 

2. The ESC behaviour was already discussed in other threads but there was a few changes recently here. Let me check this out first.

[Schubi63]

Hi MEB,

 

once again - thanks for your feedback, your work, your patience, your suggestions, hints and tips. I love that.

And I see your points, I follow your tips and give them a try too. 

 

I don't think that there must be any changes to the selection of node's objects which messes the hierarchy logic.

Why?

Because the functionality is already implemented. I can use CMD+click or double-click.

 

All I would prefer is, to not to CMD-click or double-click by default.

Make is customizable. Leave it to the user. ;) Especially they are coming from 10years usage of Phxxxxxop.

 

I'm passing a few of these suggestions to the dev team as improvement requests but I'm not so sure about a new option to change the selection of node's types (object/layers etc). I believe it messes too much with the hierarchy logic. As I said you can use Layers instead to organise your project as those lets you pick the objects directly on canvas without double-clicking. Groups are intended to be more restricted. If you group something (like icon elements to pick your example) you probably want to move it as a whole 99% of the times. If you need to select an object from it directly to make an adjustment you can "force select" it pressing ⌘ (cmd) - and ignoring the hierarchy - which also makes sense since the group is intended to be more "constrained" than a layer.

 

 

 

And I still believe, that Phxxxxxop gives a very nice and easy-to-access way to customize exactly that functionality - see picture.

 

The AD default would be something like "Auto-Select" on and the category is set to group.

In my case I just would deselect the checkbox "Auto-Select".

 

 

MEB, thanks for your time,

Stefan.