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Large Hi rez monitors vs tiny tool icons


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I'm having this issue with most all applications of late on the Mac OS.  That is, in the monitors native resolution the interface elements become too small to use without squinting.  Apple as usual is ignoring the input about this (for at least three years now) and I've been told the issue cannot be resolved with the various programs that require the Mac interface. 

 

Is that the case with Affinity apps or is there some way we can increase the size of for instance the tool icons???

 

 

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Do you really use a Mac? All modern applications, which are adapted to actual MacOs versions, don't have the meanest problems with HiRes monitors. Only legacy application come across with this issue.

True is further, that both Affinity apps make use if a very tiny icon set, what is often critizised. But this is not at all a problem of the operating system.

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Not sure why mac_heibu questions you on this, it's a real problem. Apple's has been distracted for several years from their efforts toward a resolution independent OS (but I don't think anyone else is there yet either.)

 

All you can do in the OS, once you have settled on a screen resolution, is make adjustments in

System Preferences> General,

and

Finder> View> Show view options

(I may have forgotten somewhere else, but these are the biggies. This is sufficient for smaller displays and up close work, but if you have a big display and sit further away from it you do a lot of squinting. You will also want to learn to zoom in and out quickly using keyboard and mouse shortcuts. This is enabled in System Preferences> Accessability> Zoom. I have no idea what the default settings are, but I check "use keyboard shortcuts to zoom" and "use scroll gesture with keyboard modifiers to zoom" using "command" as the modifier. This is just what I'm used to. It really all depends on taste and the type of pointing device (trackpad, mouse, Waccom, etc that you use. (BTW, I have to have the mouse setting "scroll direction natural" checked, which strangely is not apple's default, or I go completely insane!)

 

Most software (Affinity included) also has some options that are helpful. In Affinity Photo go to

Affinity Photo> Preferences> Interface

where you can make some interface size adjustments if you want.

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I agree with JP, this is a real problem, & it has nothing to do with "modern applications."

 

I use a 27" non-retina iMac & I often have to squint to see certain UI elements, not just in Affinity but also in several other apps that use a "grey on grey" UI style & have tiny little icons for status indicators, tool palettes, & such.

 

What I find somewhat helpful is to enable the System Preferences > Accessibility > Display options to Differentiate without color, & particularly the Increase Contrast & Reduce Transparency ones. Somewhat ironically, enabling Increase Contrast causes the expand/collapse indicators in the Affinity Layers panel to go dark (a bug I reported long ago) but that isn't too big a problem.

 

What is a big problem in Affinity is the low contrast difference between a selected & unselected tool in the tools palette, & only turning up the UI Gamma to near maximum makes it reasonably obvious which one is selected. 

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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Thank you, R C-R!  I do not understand why Affinity is so reluctant to at least provide an Option to increase the contrast in Tools and in the Menu and Context bars.  It's great that the UI designers have perfect eyesight and don't need this but the users (buyers, hint, hint!) do not always have that great an eyesight.  This is not an aesthetics issue; we need this!

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I stay with my opinion.

Having here 6 Macs (Retina, Non Retina, different screen sizes) (my eyesight was around 60% and is now 100 % due to cataract operations), and I have and had(!) not the meanest problem seeing the GUI of MacOs, the system applications, Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Pixelmator or whatever you want. In fact, there were issues, for example, before Adobe had adapted their CC applications to the new logical pixel sizes. But, as I said, these issues are completely gone. With one exception: Affinity Designer & Photo.

Without echoing former discussions: It is is not simply a "contrast" problem, which make the Affinity GUI so hard to use or better: so hard to see or recognize with one glimpse. It is font size (smaller than system fonts), it is contrast (nobody can tell me, that he can differentiate a selected or an unselected tool at first glance) and its the fashionable negative presentation of the GUI. I said in a different thread: We once really fought for paperwhite screens, and we finally got it with Ataris fabulous ST computer. Now nobody cares about this any more. Just to say: In Germany (and within the EC) applications and screens with negative font display will hardly get the approval to be used continuously at business workplaces (German Occupational Safety and Health Act). There is much to do – not and not only regarding application features …

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I personally like the dark themes everywhere but just saw this one e.g. and for me once again a proof that a light theme does not have to look bad

http://spotio.devinhalladay.com (scroll down a bit for screenshots)

 

coming from a photo editing standpoint I know that halos occurring by sharpening are more noticeable towards the bright areas than towards the darks so that shows that contrast in bright areas is more intensely perceived which would definitely vote for a bright UI

 

in a darker room I still favor the black though and I set it everywhere I can and most rooms are relatively dark cause in the outside you can mostly not read your phones and monitors very well 

 

PS: the devs already stated that it will be a V2 feature

 

 

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It is font size (smaller than system fonts), it is contrast (nobody can tell me, that he can differentiate a selected or an unselected tool at first glance) and its the fashionable negative presentation of the GUI.

The font UI size can be increased in preferences > User Interface from "Default" to "Large," which helps quite a bit, although it is still slightly smaller than the system font size. Turning up the UI gamma to near maximum (slider all the way to the right) helps make text in menu bars & tool selections considerably easier to see, although for tool icons like frame text that almost completely fill their spot in the tool palette it is ineffective.

 

Regarding the 'negative' presentation, to be fair about it, it is not as if we are doing much reading in the app like we would be for word processors or other text-oriented apps, so I don't think the arguments that favor black text on a white background for those applications really apply to graphics apps. Besides, the screen is usually dominated by the canvas, & that can be any color. It is also true that neutral, no-color UI's are (or at least once were) the professional choice, since color in the UI can influence color perception.

 

Still, I would like to see more UI choices, at least for the Tools palette. If nothing else, a choice between the current icon size & a larger one would be welcome.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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. . .  I use a 27" non-retina iMac & I often have to squint to see certain UI elements, not just in Affinity but also in several other apps that use a "grey on grey" UI style & have tiny little icons for status indicators, tool palettes, & such. . . .

 

I have the same machine (and presbyopia!) and it's a problem for me too.

I'll have to check out those UI display options you mention. It might also be good for my Mac user Mom (83!) who has great problems seeing the UI.

 

@mac_heibu

I'm glad you have no problem with reading the UI, but why ignore the fact that other folks have difficulties you don't? That's classic "blame the user" mindset. :-) 

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My god! Try to read, what I said! My eye sight was really, really bad, because of cataract. ine eye 40 %, the other 60 %. If I had no problems with properly programmed applications under OS X – why should someone else? And: We discussed this several times before you came into this forum. Stating, that I have a 'blame the user mindset" ist simoly ridiculous! I prefer to say nothing more about this. If you have a look at some other postings here about GUI design you perhaps might rethink your opinion …

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JP Watkins

mac_heibu said

 

"and I have and had(!) not the meanest problem seeing the GUI of MacOs, the system applications, Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Pixelmator or whatever you want. In fact, there were issues, for example, before Adobe had adapted their CC applications to the new logical pixel sizes. But, as I said, these issues are completely gone. With one exception: Affinity Designer & Photo."

 

 so there is no need to hesitate  :)

 

as a "proof" here is a topic started by him about this issue https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/14993-the-500th-thread-about-gui-…/?p=67106 Nov 2015

 

 

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 If I had no problems with properly programmed applications under OS X – why should someone else?

Because Apple persists in adding "eye candy" to the UI that has no practical value & can make things harder to see than necessary. A good example is the default partially transparent system menubar & its menu items. Depending on what is "under" them, this can significantly reduce the legibility of the text in those items. People complained about this a lot when it was first introduced, resulting in the addition of the System Preferences > Accessibility item to "reduce" transparency (which actually eliminates it completely in recent OS versions).

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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It's more an issue of screen size as it relates to user distance from screen. So we can sit close in front of a 15" laptop screen and see everything, but in order to sit I front of a 27" screen, one has to move back. So the same size icons which work fine at 15" screens appear tiny when one rightfully moves the screen back to be able to see all 27".

 

The point is that UI elements need to increase in size the larger the monitor is. This is basic design and sadly ignored by "professionals."

2021 16” Macbook Pro w/ M1 Max 10c cpu /24c gpu, 32 GB RAM, 1TB SSD, Ventura 13.6

2018 11" iPad Pro w/ A12X cpu/gpu, 256 GB, iPadOS 17

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My god! Try to read, what I said! My eye sight was really, really bad, because of cataract. ine eye 40 %, the other 60 %. If I had no problems with properly programmed applications under OS X – why should someone else? And: We discussed this several times before you came into this forum. Stating, that I have a 'blame the user mindset" ist simoly ridiculous! I prefer to say nothing more about this. If you have a look at some other postings here about GUI design you perhaps might rethink your opinion …

 

Clearly you are offended. No offense was intended.

 

Like most people you have made an accommodation and now assert there is no problem. That's why below optimum software persists—people get used to it and live with it. Most companies making products of all kinds depend on this. It saves them time effort and money. Apple used to be a leader in UI design, sadly now they are dilettantes and are captured primarily by "coolness" and esthetics rather than a practical concern for the needs of the users. I lament that Jony Ives eyes have remained so amazingly youthful and sharp! ;-)

 

In any case your experience with cataracts, before surgical correction, is your experience. Other people have a different experience. Your prior difficulties and accommodations in no way makes bad UI design acceptable. It seems you are literally saying, "It aint all that bad. I used to be blind!" Let's just say that this is an "inexact" argument to make for other use cases.

 

It's fortunate you have had a complete resolution to your visual limitations through surgery, but that's not the case for everyone and it's not a solution for sub par UI design choices. I say this as a product design researcher and consultant.

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PS: the devs already stated that it will be a V2 feature

 

 

Oops!  Either I missed that, or forgot that I'd read it.  I'll shut up about it and eagerly await V2.

 

I must have missed it too. The only thing I remember reading is that it won't be a V1 feature, which means it could be coming in V2, V3, V4, or even later.

 

Edit: I've just found this from MEB. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think "is being considered for a future version (v2)" sounds anything like a guarantee that it will be added in the next version.

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I can´t find the post which I think was from Andy or Ben but even it´s the way you say - they just can´t ignore it and every version is updated with new features for two years and I don´t think they can get away with ignoring such a frequently requested feature for 4 years so it´s pretty safe to assume that it will be V2

 

it is also a good selling point for version two (whereas I think another good selling point will be bitmap to vector conversion)

 

 

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  • 3 months later...

Apple used to be a leader in UI design, sadly now they are dilettantes and are captured primarily by "coolness" and esthetics rather than a practical concern for the needs of the users. I lament that Jony Ives eyes have remained so amazingly youthful and sharp! ;-)

 

I say this as a product design researcher and consultant.

 

I've been off for some time and involved with other applications.  I just came back to see if there was any progress.  I'm glad to see my posting stirred up a bit of demand.

I was once an Apple guy.  But that was when apple still gave a damn about professional users.  They've become rather arrogant and dismissive of any who don't keep up with what's 'now'.   An older Apple store told me in soto voice that the corporation had gone from transformative to transactional - as I hand him my credit card.

 

Mr. Ives comes across as rather full of  himself.  The whole flattening of the UI for instance was unwelcome.  He took a beautiful interface that took advantage of the machine made for visual display and ushered in something one would expect from a soviet factory.   

 

So when can we expect V2??   

 

If I had no problems with properly programmed applications under OS X – why should someone else?  If you have a look at some other postings here about GUI design you perhaps might rethink your opinion …

 

I'm not sure why you find it necessary to make everyone else wrong.  Don't you have more important things to do than ranting on this forum? :)

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One only has to look at Jony Ive's UN-decorated Christmas Tree Window for Claridges to see where the OS is going next.  Prolly a large blank slate that neither requires nor allows any user interaction whatsoever.  (I think that used to be the definition of TV, which has conversely become more interactive.)  And too many apps blindly follow suit, sacrificing usability for all for coolness for a few.

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While not knowing well Apple's (Windows super fan here) products (and respecting the company deeply) I can say the "pro" word in iPad Pro might be more of a marketing thing. Or.. Let's be fair and say "partially". Because, IMO, it has the best pen feel ever in any drawing device out there, no parallax, no jitter!!, no palm rejection issues, a compact independent device "really" light compared to a Companion, amazing accuracy, best close-to-no lag situation, amazing tilt response, and a absolutely good natural feel. The Pencil name suits it very well. There's even enough almost-pro tablet software to do at least a 85% of the stages in an illustration or design project.  But.. somehow, they decided not to produce professional sizes, like at least 15" or 17" (the only thing I like of the recent MS Surface Studio: Is HUGE).The size of 12,9 is fine, IMO for sketching only. Not to make large compositions, or even closer shots with more detail, to work on it comfortably during several hours. That, plus keeping it, or the whole iOS it self, with its system limiting facts, like the handling of files, and certain (I know that in the tiny 9,7" size there is "some" movement in the right direction) lack of color management for serious stuff. I could even deal with passing the files to my desktop, but the screen size... I mean, even huge for a consumer tablet, but then, why the "pro" name, and even some marketing slogans and descriptions.  Other than that, in a consumer level point of view, loved my iPad 1. Not trying so to trash the company. Only I feel that last product is both amazing and a strange mix of categories at the same time.

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