Jump to content
canta

AP on MacBookPro overheating with marching ants

Recommended Posts

Hi there, 

 

I'm a new user of AP (1.4.2), which I really find great!

 

I'm running it on my MacBookPro retina 13" mid 2014 (16GB RAM, 256GB SSD, Intel Iris 1536MB) with El Capitain 10.11.6 (everything up to date and working fine so far). 

 

Unfortunately, I have an issue that is seriously affecting my activity with AP: 

When I open a file (whatever the size, even a few Kb jpeg), it's sufficient to make any selection (even a simple squared one) to make the machine starting to overheat and get the fan running at full speed.

This happen just by having any selection active (i.e. marching ants). If I remove the selection, the machine cools down...

 

I also tried to set the "Use only integrated GPU" option, but it didn't help... 

By de-selecting the "OpenGL Hardware" option things seems to get better , but the performances are quite severely affected. 

 

I searched in the forum, and I see that with the beta version someone reported a similar issue (https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/8723-laptop-running-hot/) but it seems that everything was fixed at that time.. 

 

My point is: Is it normal such a behavior on a machine that is quite new and well featured? (I'm using my macbookpro even for real-time HD video editing without anything like that. Useless to say: With PS CS6 it is working perfectly without any performance issue). 

 

I hope someone can help me. Let me know should you need more information. 

 

Many thanks in advance!

  Marco 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi again, 

 

Nobody can give me a hint about how to track this problem?

 

As I said, the problem only occurs with Affinity Photo, so I guess that something on my machine is conflicting with AP.. but what?

 

It would be a pity to renounce to such a great program, but I still have only few days to get a refund, so pls help!

 

thanks,

  marco  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi canta

 

Sorry for the slow reply, we have been looking into this but it is not something that we can easily reproduce. whilst we keep attempting this, is there anything you have running that might conflict with the app? Any other processor intensive app or any helper style apps such as font managers, clipboard managers etc?

 

Cheers


Serif Europe Ltd - Check the latest news at www.affinity.serif.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Chris, 

first of all, a real big thank you for supporting me! I can well imagine that the problem is not easy to track and reproduce, but let's at least give it a try ;-) 

1. All the tests that I've done were performed without other applications running in background, however I just have a couple of utilities which are started at login (quickres and a vpn client). Nothing that normally affects performances... However, this evening (now I'm the office) I'll disable them to see if they may cause the issue...  

2. I will try to start the MBP in safe mode and see what happens, this should also give some useful indications. 

3. I'll also create a new user to see whether the problem is limited to my account.

4. Yesterday I also checked the cpu on the performance monitor (maybe this evening I'll post some numbers): With marching ants it seems that the kernel_task is working more, but it doesn't look like it's overloading the machine. I guess the problem is on the gpu. Whatever, after a selection is done, the machine slowly start to heat (really a lot) and the fan starts as well. This happens within ~1 minute after the selection is done, by just leaving the machine alone, without doing anything. If I remove the selection, within 1 minute it cools down..

 

If you want to suggest any further check/analysis, also on application's side, just let me know.. 

 

Once more, many thanks!

  Marco 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Marco,

 

I'm a little unsure about what to tell you in all honesty... I use a 15" MacBook Pro Retina (2015 model with discrete GPU) all day, every day (and night!) and it occasionally sticks the fans on when it is pushed (a document with lots of layer effects) but is otherwise pretty much silent in both Designer and Photo. My wife has a 13" MacBook Pro Retina (base model) and that also can't ever really be heard to be getting distressed... I'll try to give it a go later and leave the marching ants on screen for a while and report back.

 

At the end of the day, we're asking to do a very trivial operation on the GPU at no more than 60fps (and if you're not interacting with zoom/panning then it will back down to 30fps for just the ants) and we're doing it with a low priority thread, so there's absolutely no good reason the machine should be getting upset... Are you running your screen scaled or at the default size? I can imagine that with a scaled screen, the GPU in the 13" machine might not be able to cope very well?

 

It should be noted that the machine is able to cope with getting warm and the fans coming on is just to keep everything operating within design tolerances, so no damage is being done, but yes - it's noisy and drains battery, so we'd prefer it not to be happening.

 

The 'Use only integrated GPU' option will not help you as the 13" version only has an integrated GPU, so was already doing that... The software rendering option will be horrifically slow, but it's interesting that the fans didn't kick in as it means the problem is completely down to the GPU getting warm under load...

 

I'll let you know how my wife's 13" MacBook Pro Retina fairs with marching ants when I get chance to try it :)

 

Thanks,

Matt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Matt, 

 

I'm very convinced that the problem is just local to my machine (or I'd have found millions of similar posts in the forum, for sure ;-)

I'll keep on investigating, following the steps indicated on my previous post. I'm pretty sure that something sooner or later will sort out.. 

In any case, I don't want to give up with AP. I really like it, and I want it to become my primary photo editing application (it's on the right way).

Will keep you posted..

 

all the best,

  Marco  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi again, 

 

I tried a simple test, using a free OpenGL benchmark (www.Geeks3D.com/GpuTest) running with AP in background. 

I wanted to see the impact of performing a simple selection on AP to the benchmark result. 

Attached you can see four screenshots with the outcomes.

In short, running the Tessmark benchmark: 

-  just an image opened WITHOUT any selection: 2572 points (42 FPS)

-  making a rectangular selection on the image: 1985 points (33 FPS)

 

Even more incredible, the Triangle benchmark: 

-  just an image opened WITHOUT any selection: 24376 points (405 FPS)

-  making a rectangular selection on the image: 3599 points (59 FPS)

(!!!!)

 

It looks to me like an incredible downgrade on the performances, definitely something too weird to be normal... what do you think about it? However, it would be great to repeat these tests on another machine and compare the results...  

 

Btw, the other tests I've done didn't bring anything (I've tried disabling everything is loaded at login, I've also tried with a second user... no change). 

 

I might eventually consider reinstalling the OS from scratch, as last option... 

 

as usual, thanks for whatever support you can offer (even psychological :-))), 

  marco

post-35041-0-04087900-1470947241_thumb.png

post-35041-0-26019300-1470947249_thumb.png

post-35041-0-91293300-1470948258_thumb.png

post-35041-0-43123700-1470948267_thumb.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Marco,

 

Unfortunately, the usefulness of the test is very limited - it's not really showing you what you think it's showing you, hence why the numbers seem to vary so wildly... Every frame that Affinity is drawing will take 'n' milliseconds, every frame that the test is running will take 'm' milliseconds. Affinity will draw each frame based off an internal timer at 60FPS, so every 1/60th of a second you will definitely get a frame time of 'n' milliseconds. If the test program is also trying to draw, it has to wait for Affinity's 'n' millisecond frame update and then draw its own 'm' millisecond update. As soon as that draw is done, the test program tries to draw immediately again. Assuming that 1/60th of a second hasn't elapsed, it'll be allowed to draw again and this frame will only take 'm' milliseconds again. When Affinity is idle (you're not panning/zooming/showing ants) it will not use any frame time at all, so the test program is unlimited by Affinity's frame update. In the simple 'Triangle' test it takes basically no time at all to update, and without ants then it will not get delayed by Affinity's frame update so can achieve a very high 'FPS'. But when you have the ants on, every second will be hit by the overhead of having up to 60 Affinity frame updates between the calls to drawing a simple triangle, so the reported 'FPS' will be significantly reduced.

 

This doesn't mean anything is going wrong, or is taking too long - it's just what you'd expect to see basically... If the Affinity frame update was made faster, the FPS of the test would increase, but if the frame update could have been trivially made faster, I would have done it already... Your test of 'triangle' with ants is showing that your machine is basically capable of performing the Affinity frame update and a trivial other task at 60FPS - but no more, so it is fairly busy, which explains why it starts to get hot. Without us changing some code to be more optimised for your GPU, you won't be able to change this characteristic (in all honesty) so I really wouldn't recommend reinstalling your OS in an effort to fix this, as it sounds like it wouldn't help? (I'd be happy to be proved wrong!). The other alternative is that macOS Sierra may have different characteristics with its driver and may offer you improved performance?

 

I'll also try to double-check that the code still is working that backs down to 30FPS updates for just the marching ants - that would reduce your load and stop heat generating...

 

As I said, I'll try to grab my wife's 13" MacBook Pro Retina and see what hers is like... :)

 

Thanks,

Matt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Matt, 

 

thank you indeed for your time and your exhaustive explanations.

A couple of aspects are not clear to me (sorry, I might be a little slow sometimes  :unsure:  :rolleyes: please forgive me if I misunderstood what you wrote ).

1. From how I read your comments, it seems that my machine is basically ok (as you state "...Without us changing some code to be more optimised for your GPU, you won't be able to change this characteristic..." and you even discourage me from re-installing OSX). Did I get it wrong? So far I was assuming that something was locally wrong (configuration/conflict/whatever) just on my machine, and for this reason I was thinking of reinstalling everything from scratch..  

However, if such a behavior is normal on every MBP 13" retina, I would be really surprised that nobody noticed and reported it before me..   

 

2. This second doubt is more academic, and just for me to understand, but I don't really want to waste your time.. It's still about the benchmark. 

Assuming that the GPU time is shared between the benchmark and AP (I hope I'm not too wrong with this assumption), I see that: 

- With NO ants, AP is taking no GPU time (just read from your reply " When Affinity is idle (you're not panning/zooming/showing ants) it will not use any frame time at all", therefore as the benchmark shows that it can draw 405 triangles in one second, it means that my GPU requires 1000/405 = 2,47ms for drawing a single triangle. 

- With the ants marching, the benchmark could only draw 59 triangles, meaning that the benchmark could be allocated only 2,47 x 59 = 145,7ms of time during one second of test, thus meaning that AP took the rest of the time (1000 - 145,7 = 854,3 ms) for refreshing the marching ants, which in turns makes 854,3/60 = 14,24ms per frame taken by AP. 

Am I wrong? If not, then for refreshing the marching ants (without doing basically anything else) AP would take 7 times the time than for drawing a triangle... which could look like fair or not, actually I don't know. I would just like to have your opinion on that..

 

Again, thank you for your time and your kind support, Matt!

all the best,

 Marco

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Matt, 

 

thank you indeed for your time and your exhaustive explanations.

A couple of aspects are not clear to me (sorry, I might be a little slow sometimes  :unsure:  :rolleyes: please forgive me if I misunderstood what you wrote ).

1. From how I read your comments, it seems that my machine is basically ok (as you state "...Without us changing some code to be more optimised for your GPU, you won't be able to change this characteristic..." and you even discourage me from re-installing OSX). Did I get it wrong? So far I was assuming that something was locally wrong (configuration/conflict/whatever) just on my machine, and for this reason I was thinking of reinstalling everything from scratch..  

However, if such a behavior is normal on every MBP 13" retina, I would be really surprised that nobody noticed and reported it before me..   

 

2. This second doubt is more academic, and just for me to understand, but I don't really want to waste your time.. It's still about the benchmark. 

Assuming that the GPU time is shared between the benchmark and AP (I hope I'm not too wrong with this assumption), I see that: 

- With NO ants, AP is taking no GPU time (just read from your reply " When Affinity is idle (you're not panning/zooming/showing ants) it will not use any frame time at all", therefore as the benchmark shows that it can draw 405 triangles in one second, it means that my GPU requires 1000/405 = 2,47ms for drawing a single triangle. 

- With the ants marching, the benchmark could only draw 59 triangles, meaning that the benchmark could be allocated only 2,47 x 59 = 145,7ms of time during one second of test, thus meaning that AP took the rest of the time (1000 - 145,7 = 854,3 ms) for refreshing the marching ants, which in turns makes 854,3/60 = 14,24ms per frame taken by AP. 

Am I wrong? If not, then for refreshing the marching ants (without doing basically anything else) AP would take 7 times the time than for drawing a triangle... which could look like fair or not, actually I don't know. I would just like to have your opinion on that..

 

Again, thank you for your time and your kind support, Matt!

all the best,

 Marco

 

 

 

Hi Marco,

 

On point 1, I'm suggesting that I can't logically see how reinstalling the OS would change the performance characteristics of the GPU - but that I would love to be proven wrong. As I said, my wife's machine is the base model 13" Retina and I've never heard it sitting there spinning its fans up when I wouldn't expect it to - but then, I don't leave marching ants on the screen all the time (they're usually just temporary while I do something) so I need to actually use it and test. I know that I once added the ability for the whole update to back down to 30FPS if it was just updating the ants, so if that is working it should stop your problem completely - but maybe it's not working now? I'll be able to try my wife's computer over the weekend and let you know :)

 

With regards to point 2, yes you're pretty much correct (there are other factors and interactions to consider but yes, that's basically what you're seeing) and yes it's taking 7 times longer on your GPU than drawing one triangle - but it's actually drawing several hundred triangles with 3 different pixel shaders and a 3D texture-lookup to do colour correction for each frame... so it's not unreasonable in terms of frame-time...

 

Thanks again,

Matt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi there, 

 

I'm a new user of AP (1.4.2), which I really find great!

 

I'm running it on my MacBookPro retina 13" mid 2014 (16GB RAM, 256GB SSD, Intel Iris 1536MB) with El Capitain 10.11.6 (everything up to date and working fine so far). 

 

Unfortunately, I have an issue that is seriously affecting my activity with AP: 

When I open a file (whatever the size, even a few Kb jpeg), it's sufficient to make any selection (even a simple squared one) to make the machine starting to overheat and get the fan running at full speed.

This happen just by having any selection active (i.e. marching ants). If I remove the selection, the machine cools down...

 

I also tried to set the "Use only integrated GPU" option, but it didn't help... 

By de-selecting the "OpenGL Hardware" option things seems to get better , but the performances are quite severely affected. 

 

I searched in the forum, and I see that with the beta version someone reported a similar issue (https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/8723-laptop-running-hot/) but it seems that everything was fixed at that time.. 

 

My point is: Is it normal such a behavior on a machine that is quite new and well featured? (I'm using my macbookpro even for real-time HD video editing without anything like that. Useless to say: With PS CS6 it is working perfectly without any performance issue). 

 

I hope someone can help me. Let me know should you need more information. 

 

Many thanks in advance!

  Marco 

 

Hi Marco,

 

I'm running Affinity Photo on a 2013 Retina Macbook Pro (i5 2.4, 8gb RAM) and I have been experiencing this exact same issue for months. Whenever I begin making a more subtle selection with a couple of additions and subtractions which obviously takes more than a couple of seconds the Mac gets extremely hot and loud and I'm forced to deselect the whole thing or quit the app unless I want to risk my hardware. It's not because of the slightly advanced selection but the elapsed time the selection is active. Zooming and panning performances reduced and the so called ants are visibly lagging.

 

Please update us if there's a solution!

 

Thank you!

Daniel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Daniel, 

 

I'm sorry that you're experiencing the same issue, but at least I'm not alone anymore, and I feel a little bit encouraged. Actually the issue is still there on my machine, also after the upgrade to the latest 1.5 version, and the behavior is exactly the same as you (we) reported.

What I understood from the above exchange of messages is that the problem is not related to my specific installation (meanwhile I even updated the mac OS), but it's rather bound to the high frame rate used for refreshing the marching ants combined with the lack of a real GPU on our machines... 

Whatever, I still don 't find this an acceptable explanation, also because as a matter of fact, it makes my AP barely usable, and for this reason I'm still using PS. A simple square selection on an empty document should not, never and for no reasons on earth produce such a machine overheating, especially on a powerful machine like ours, where I'm running even sophisticated 3d simulations without problems. 

Therefore this is either a bug, or a serious design flawless or whatever else that has not been properly investigated nor taken into account.

Sorry, I couldn't hide my disappointment, and I don't want to look too harsh, but I payed for a tool that I cannot use... 

 

cheers, 

  Marco 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can add me to this list. 2014 15" Iris Pro graphics, and since day one Affinity Designer and Photo have driven my fans into overdrive when making raster selections; and I've had Designer since the day it was released.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the reply. I agree. One thing I would add is that for me it only needs only about 15 seconds for the fans to spin up. I hope we will find a solution soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Add me to the list as well. It's been about a month since the last post on this overheating issue with no clear resolution here.  I've been using AP on my 2014 MBP Retina  and have experienced extreme overheating (I couldn't touch the computer) and fans running esp. after using AP for a while and working with selections.  Is anyone aware of a solution or better understanding of how to fix this problem?  (I am not technically  sophisticated so please KISS!  :D )  Thanks!  I will also post this as a new topic in the Bugs forum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There seems to be a bigger problem under the hood. My suspicion is the GPU part.

 

I have a MacPro with two GTX 970 and NVIDIA cards on it and Designer and Photo in certain tasks

lag that drastic that I cannot use the software for work.

 

I have one file with 30 160kb 600*600 pixel images and dragging one image results into a stop motion.

 

I know that in my case this might be linked to either the NVIDIA drivers I installed or macOS Sierra drivers

but all other GPU powered apps run fine such as Photoshop Pixelmator Fusion360 and such.


Claas Kuhnen

 

 

 

 

Faculty Industrial Design  -  Chair Interior Design - Wayne State University

 

 

Owner studioKuhnen - product:interface:design

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've got the same problem with Affinity Designer, Marching Ants will overheat the MacBook within seconds.
MacBook Pro Retina 13-inch, Mid2014, Intel Iris.

Tested in OSX 10.11 and macOS 10.12.

 

The only solution I've found so far is to run the app in low resolution mode, which is not working any more in macOS 10.12.

You can also lower the resolution with a program called "Retina Display Menu".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

I am using AP since a couple of weeks without any problem. But for the last - let's say 4-5 days - when using the paintbrush to activate an inverted adjustment layer, my MAC book pro (mid 2015) got very, very slowly, fan running at high speed - I am not aware that I made any changes in the preferences or other settings in this time.

 

Closing of all other apps (except Kaspersky in the background), restarting AP etc. brought nothing.

 

I tried the trick with starting form launchpad with ctrl-key pressed, deleted my preferences and starting again - now it is running like new - only disadvantage, all my preferences etc. are gone  :( but I am happy it is running at all, because in the meantime I really love to work with AP (instead of this Adobe things!)

 

Reinhard

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Same here to be honest. Any type of selection and within a minute the processor is boiling and the fans are working hard. It's not working the CPU hard according to activity monitor (less than 20% at most) so it don't know why that's happening. Hopefully some coding can fix this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it helps. There is an option (can't remember what category but I'm sure it's in preferences) that you tick for "use intergrated GPU". That seems to have resolved it. May slow down a tad the overall app but I haven't noticed it and it's stopped it getting hot. Let me know if it works. I think it's the performance tab if that helps

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't experience the overheating (or any slowdown) on a 2016 MacBook Pro with integrated graphics. I guess it is specific to people with certain dedicated graphics cards. Might be a driver issue?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm having the same issue. Using latest (Versions 1.6) Affinity Photo and Designer, but whenever I use the selection tool (marching ants) causes the computer to kick fans on high until I get rid of the selection. No matter what size of file. Happens immediately with selections and goes away immediately when getting rid of said selections. This is a huge problem for me to continue to use these apps for selections are a large part of my workflow. 

 

Key point in this matter would seem it happens only when used in conjunction with Astropad. If I use the selection tool with Astropad turned off I have no issues. So, perhaps these two programs aren't working well together in this way. 

 

Truly hoping this issue can be fixed. They just released an update, but that did nothing for this problem, and by the sounds of this thread it's been going on for awhile now. I don't want to go back to Adobe products, but will have too if such a simple thing cannot be resolved. Will contact Astropad about this and see if there's something they can do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can only confirm that the issue is also still present on my mac. Since opening this thread, I've updated AP to 1.5 and now 1.6, and the OS has moved to OS Sierra, but nothing helped. Therefore I went back to Adobe...

It's incredible that nobody at Affinity is willing to take care of this REAL issue (counting the number of reports above). 

Having payed for a product that I cannot use, and being ignored by Affinity support since more than one year, you can imagine my level of satisfaction.

 

Btw, CunningTurtle00, I'm curious to see whether the hardware can play a role. Would you share your machine configuration? 

Mine is: MacBookPro retina 13" mid 2014 (16GB RAM, 256GB SSD, Intel Iris 1536MB)

 

thanks and good luck

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, forgot to say: I don't use Astropad, I don't even have an iPad... 

If you only get the issue using that specific software, then I don't really know what it could be (several possibilities, but only speculations).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×