OSX Ventura update to 13.7.5 - Blank "Open" menus

[SKO]

I'm behind in OSX (because every update seems to deteriorate my Mac's overall performance and I'm a reluctant participant in that department) so I'll venture another notch but just a heads up that the splash menu for recent files and "Open Recent" from menu have been "paralysed" 

No thumbnails and no access to files other than through "Open" then through the OSX 

I haven't had time to map the memory "suck out" but using my Brave browser and Affinity2 simultaneously appears to be a lethal cocktail to memory usage

Yes, I restarted a few times etc - no remedy hence this post

 

[GarryP]

One reason for the thumbnail for a file not being displayed in the Recent Files dialog is that the file no longer exists where the application last knew it to be.

Can you confirm that, where no thumbnail is displayed, the file still exists in the location the application expects it to be?

On Windows you can check this by right-clicking the file in the dialog and choosing “Show in Explorer” from the menu. I don't know if there is a similar function in the macOS versions of the software.

[SKO]

No, it's quite different - but I just updated my system and "usually" MacOSX doesn't interfere with app [preferences], at least it hasn't with anything else, so this might be worth rethinking, if the Affinity file hierarchy stores in the wrong place.....hmmmmmmmmmmmm......?  

Now I'm thinking: is this is also what is causing the memory "suck out"??!

An undesirable glitch in the Affinity file handling in OSX? 🤔

 

[GarryP]

11 minutes ago, SKO said:

No, it's quite different

Are you saying that the file locations are quite different, or that the problem is different to what I thought it might be?

I don’t know what “updated my system” specifically means or how you did it so I can’t comment on that.

I don’t know what you mean by “if the Affinity file hierarchy stores in the wrong place” either so I can’t give a response to that.

I also don’t know what you mean by “memory ‘suck out’” so that’s not something I can help with.

[SKO]

File locations [hierarchy] are much different from a PC but I'm no computer expert so I could explain how - also I wouldn't know where what is "supposed" to be

Affinity Designer 2 uses an "irregular" or extreme amount of memory which will suddenly slow the computer down to absolute "slow motion" - eg you move the cursor and it trails with serious lag, so maybe the app actions and memory are maybe logging in the wrong location(s) and causing operational "clogging"..? The only remedy so far is to [save, quit and restart] app or the computer and it is an Affinity 2 issue [was not happening with v. 1] because I cleaned out my computer, updated my OS because of it but still hasn't helped the performance.. and now this issue where my files are "missing" in [Open Recent] and [Splash screen]

[GarryP]

2 hours ago, SKO said:

File locations [hierarchy] are much different from a PC but I'm no computer expert so I could explain how - also I wouldn't know where what is "supposed" to be

When you are using the Recent Files dialog, the application can only open a file if the file is in exactly the same place in your file storage (hard drive) as it was when the application last saw it.

If a file has been moved, or renamed, or deleted, since it was last opened in the application then the application won’t be able to find it again and it also won’t be able to see/use the thumbnail for the file.

If the “update” caused one or more of your document files to be moved, renamed, or deleted, then you will not be able to see those files via the Recent Files dialog until you open them via a different method, e.g. menu “File → Open”.

2 hours ago, SKO said:

Affinity Designer 2 uses an "irregular" or extreme amount of memory which will suddenly slow the computer down to absolute "slow motion"

I don’t know what you mean by “an "irregular" or extreme amount of memory” as your definition of that might be different to mine.

If you don’t have much RAM (e.g. 8GB or less) and are editing a large file (maybe one with lots of embedded images) then I would expect that to have an impact on how the software performs, but I don’t have that information.

If you can share a file with us and tell us more about how much RAM the application is using on your system with that file loaded (and give us more system information, and give us a screen-grab of your Settings/Performance settings) then someone can probably help further.

[SKO]

Files are in exactly the same locations - I thought you were referring to something "deeper" into the library - like preferences

I don't think my files are excessive - heaviest is some 15 MB and I might 4-5 open at once, but Affinity 2 memory use will rise to 6 GB - many times over the next app 

But this all started w. Aff 2 - never had this w. Aff 1 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[GarryP]

Without knowing more about the files, their contents and configuration, there’s not much that we can do other than guess.

One thing you can do is to set “Save History with Document” to OFF in the File menu for each file and see how that goes.

The information in your screen-grab doesn’t look like it’s a memory-availability issue though.

The Affinity applications do use more memory than you might think but that’s to enable faster responsiveness by keeping more information in memory.

But without more specific information it’s a bit like trying to answer the question “How much of <this stuff> can I put in my bucket?” without knowing what <this stuff> is, or how much of it there is, or (in some cases) how big the bucket is or what shape the bucket is. And even then, it might not be a problem with either the <stuff> or the bucket.

I don’t know enough about how Macs work to be able to help further with this so I’ll leave it someone who knows more about this sort of thing.

[SKO]

Much appreciated all the same - unfortunately we're on different system - hopefully someone in the know (OSX) takes it into consideration/has a solution bc I have no clue.. 

 

[Art51]

Hi @SKO,

I'm on a similar system, MacOS Ventura 13.7.4 on 2019 Intel MacBook Pro with AMD Radeon Pro 5600M.

I'm not sure why your thumbnail images in the Recent panel aren't showing up. But I can offer some suggestions for your performance/memory ills.

Primarily, I find that playing MP3 music via the Music app or any other music programme whilst using Affinity Photo causes massive lag and and issues. It took me quite some time to figure out MP3's and Affinity Photo don't play well together. I haven't checked to see if this is the case when using Affinity Designer.

Also, there can be issues around the Hardware Acceleration setting in Affinity>Settings>Performance. You might find turning it OFF will help matters. Personally, I leave it ON and make sure my OSX Automatic Graphics Switching is OFF, thus forcing the system to use my AMD graphics card and not the Intel integrated graphics. You can find OSX Automatic Graphics Switching in System Settings>Battery>Options

I agree, the memory usage can seem inordinately high. My working files are larger than yours, but sometimes the memory usage does blow out so it can help to look at the other Affinity Performance settings:

• Make sure your RAM limit (and Disc Usage Warning) isn't set to use all the RAM your system has. My system as 32GB total, so I move the slider down to allow about 22GB which allows oodles for other system tasks etc.
• Consider lowering your Undo Limit as this will eat up memory if it's high.
• Try different View Quality settings. I use Bilinear and it works fine. You should be able to keep Dithering and Precise Clipping ON
• I keep my File Recovery at 300 seconds.
• Display is set to Metal (as I'm using Hardware Acceleration), but if you turn off Hardware Acceleration try it on OpenGL.
• Retina Rendering is set to Automatic which should be fine on your system too, but you can change it and experiment.

I am also wary of upgrading OSX. I was perviously on Monterey and was having the MP3 issue with no solution offered by Affinity and so I eventually upgraded to Ventura hoping that the new Metal 3 would fix some performance issues as it is the same version run by current OS's. Unfortunately it didn't. That said, now that I know where the quirks and idiosyncrasies lie I can adjust my settings, play music on my stereo and enjoy great performance with Affinity on my Intel MacBook Pro. Equally, you should be able to have a great experience on your system too.

The recent Affinity 2.6.2 update fixed some buggy app-specific issues that were quite vexing, and hopefully more fixes are on the way.

[SKO]

Hi @Art51 Thank you immensely for this detailed check list, no idea how you figured it all out but bless you for writing it down for me and I shall try every point..  I will post back how it worked out - abt the OSX updates, strange, undesirable things always happen, but I thought the blank menus and splash screens were an "interesting" development and re-opening app several times didn't bring them back - however, saving a completely new file put it at the top, alone, so I guess I'll have to open each and every file manually and save them again, probably under a new file name, which will be really #$%@&!! annoying

Thx Art, much appreciated

[Art51]

I hope there is some combination there that might improve things.

Also, I see that the WindowServer process was active at the time you were using Affinity. I've also noticed this at times. Not consistently, but every now and then and usually for a period soon after updating Affinity. It certainly causes my system to work overtime when using Affinity.

I'm not really sure why WindowServer hogs so many system resources as it's function is to manage what is drawn on the screen. Perhaps there is something not quite right with how Affinity uses/redraws content displayed in the work area. It is certainly the interaction with Affinity that causes the process as closing Affinity rectifies the issue.

Perhaps someone else might have some insight?

[jmwellborn]

I found the topic in Desktop Questions part of the Forums and decided to try @R C-R's suggestions.  They did not work.  Then checked here in the Bugs section and thought I should add my two cents' worth.  I have absolutely nothing else running in the background except for MAIL.  

[SKO]

Obviously something "unintentional" has been introduced in Affinity 2 - apparently where "Recent Files" preferences is stored is not practical since it disappears using some OSX or updating and the memory "suck" is really a problem.. I haven't experience this using other graphics apps 

Do you experience performance issues using just Aff2 + Mail?

[Art51]

No, I haven't had any issues when using Mail. My problems (lags resulting in regular beachballs) arise from playing MP3's. I can't tell if this is related to the unusually high use of RAM by Affinity (the WindowServer process seems directly connected however).

I haven't experienced the high RAM usage in other graphics programmes either. As a matter of interest I have saved files from Affinity as PSD's and opened them in other programmes such as Pixelmator Pro, PS and Krita and they don't exhibit the same high RAM usage, though it must be said the files don't export exactly true to the original either depending on whether a live filter is applied etc. so that might be where the RAM peaks arise specific to Affinity. Notably, all the other programmes redraw the screen (zooming and panning) much faster than Affinity, to the point it's not noticeable. My files are typically ~7000px X ~10000px with over 100 layers, so they are big to begin with. Interestingly, in Affinity I get slightly better, smoother performance panning, zooming, painting etc. when disabling Hardware Acceleration, but the trade off is reduced quality with some brushes whilst other brushes (those with sub-brushes) are terribly laggy to the point of being unusable. Hence, I keep Hardware Acceleration ON. Pixelmator Pro utilises Metal and has consistently great performance across the board regardless of file size. Krita doesn't use Metal (utilises OpenGL) and it too is fast and smooth. So something about Affinity offering both Metal and OpenGL causes vexed performance issues.

All that said, I'm quite happy I've figured out a combination of settings (both Affinity and System settings) that afford me the performance I need to get my work done. It took way more than a usual amount of experimenting to get there and so I'm now loathe to change anything that upsets the balance!

I've enrolled in the Beta programme so that I can test a new update before I instal it proper. This way I can make sure everything works okay before committing new work and old files to something that might not be backwards compatible should I need to downgrade for some reason.

[SKO]

You certainly are better plugged into the usage than I am - I found out that the windowserv is what runs your interface by interrupting it in "Activity Monitor", it'll just "kick" you straight to login screen, but I suggest you don't try it, I'm not sure I'm not having unintended lags overall now or just a brain aneurysm (haha)

I reinstalled my OSX yesterday bc my Macs general performance seems to be slowing down generally and all sorts of memory recovery tricks have so far been futile - it's just lagging randomly and more often now (again - maybe just mind tricks)

Lastly I agree with you that no other application demonstrates this strange memory/performance like Aff2 and it's just bumming me out

The silence from admins indicates they probably don't have any solutions (shrug)
 

[jmwellborn]

@SKO and @Art51 If you will check the link in my comment above, and when you reach it, scroll down to the last post from @MikeTony713, you will find that he has provided the solution which has worked for me.  You might consider it.  Hope it helps you too!

[Art51]

@jmwellbornThanks for the link and the solution. No doubt that will help others who are tearing hair out.

I've not yet had the 'recent file' problem. Seems it might be something to do with Ventura 13.7.5 (I'm still on 13.7.4).

[SKO]

Eureka!! I finally found out where my problems lay when I conferred with ChatGPT - my computer was simply too old, but in my defence it only became an issue after I started using Affinity 2 and the sluggishness quickly accelerated, not helped by old habits of frantic attempts to clean out my computer, desperately freeing up space by discarding old files, repeated disk help/clean, monitoring activity monitor which were all telling me that everything was "okay" when it clearly wasn't, I even bought dodgy new software I paid for, eventually I bought new 8To external storage disk I actually didn't need, when in fact the "ole" Fusion drive was the problem all along - I just couldn't keep up anymore. 

So if your Mac is dragging along you might want to get a new SSD drive (I bought a Samsung T 7 SSD, 2 To for $150) and I currently have nine apps running and experience zero hiccups in Aff2 - all my problems of lag, freeze and bonkers memory problems are gone 😅

However the blank menu, which the original problem, remained, and I never found the Application Support folder on my computer but now I started over - still thank you to you all for your feedback

Cheers Sko

[Art51]

That's great to hear the SSD has worked wonders! Great stuff.

PS- I must say the MP3 issue is no longer an issue with my setup and Affinity Photo 2.6.2. I've pressure-tested the programme with a big project and have had NO issues with lag or stalls at all. It's all running super smooth. A great experience all round on my intel MacBook Pro.