Color Space - Profile

[OldHickory30]

Still trying to work through a couple things that differ in UI slightly  from PS.

My workflow goes from exporting in DXO either as an Adobe RGB or SRGB typically TIFF, to Affinity.  Question based on the screenshots, typically I have the RGB Color profile set to my monitors profile and the 32 bit set to either Adobe RGB or SRGB and than export as such. Something doesn't seem right. Should the RGB Color and 32 bit color both be either Adobe or SRGB while exporting the same?

[smadell]

First of all, @OldHickory30, I'm pretty sure that the RGB Color Profile (as well as the 32-bit RGB Color Profile) you specify in Settings… is only applied to a newly opened image if (i) you are creating a new image from scratch; (ii) you are opening an existing image for which there is no color profile stated in that image's metadata; or (iii) you have checked the box in AP that says "Convert open files to working space". If you are opening a document (for instance, a document you just created by exporting a photo from DxO) the Affinity Photo document should maintain the color profile that exists within that document. In short, if you export a TIFF file from DxO for which you specified Adobe RGB, opening that document in Affinity Photo should keep that Adobe RGB setting in place.

As to which one to use, I normally use Adobe RGB rather than sRGB simply because it is a wider color space that allows me to work in "more" colors. I used to specify ProPhoto RGB (using that same logic) until it was pointed out to me, by a YouTube video I think, that most monitors cannot display ProPhoto and most printers cannot display ProPhoto, so I am shooting myself in the foot by trying to use that color profile as my working space.

However (and this is the important take-home message) you should never, ever open your document using the same profile you specified for your monitor. That profile is only for use by your monitor, and its purpose is to correct colors when they are translated from your actual document to your monitor (for display). In truth, no matter what profile your AP document uses, your monitor profile will be used in order to display that file on screen. However, when you choose a "working" color profile, you are much better off using sRGB or Adobe RGB (and, as stated, I always choose the latter).

Similarly, when you export from Affinity Photo, do not export an image using the monitor profile. Since that profile is specific to your monitor, it will make no sense for it to be used in an image sent somewhere else (or even used on your own system). If you have to specify, when you Export a file you should choose the color profile it uses based on where the image is going. If it is solely for your own use, and if your monitor can handle it, you can export a document in Adobe RGB. Otherwise, you are safest exporting a document in the sRGB color space. Simply choose that color profile in the appropriate pull-down menu when you are setting the parameters for file export.

[OldHickory30]

Greatly appreciate the detailed explanation. My BenQ monitor is 100% sRGB I do export at times in AdobeRGB  and the prints come out great, just can't see the gamut while processing. Working towards a wide gamut monitor. Side note have been curious regarding the "DXO Wide gamut. " Thanks again!

[smadell]

@OldHickory30 - I wish I could comment intelligently about EDR vs SDR monitors, or about the DxO Wide Gamut color space. But I think my advice would be the same. It’s one thing to work in a really wide color space while editing, or even to export in a wide color space if you are going to use that image only on your own wide-gamut monitor. But, in other situations (such as sending images to others who will not have comparable monitors, posting images online which must of necessity be viewed through browsers that will assume an sRGB space, etc.), it’s most likely best practice to export in sRGB.

As to editing, using Adobe RGB as your AP document’s color space is reasonable, given that your monitor can probably handle all, or nearly all, of that space. Printing is another concern, as there is most likely no printer out there that can handle ProPhoto, and may choke on whatever the DxO Wide Gamut entails. A post-edit color space conversion would be wise in that situation.

[OldHickory30]

53 minutes ago, smadell said:

@OldHickory30 - I wish I could comment intelligently about EDR vs SDR monitors, or about the DxO Wide Gamut color space. But I think my advice would be the same. It’s one thing to work in a really wide color space while editing, or even to export in a wide color space if you are going to use that image only on your own wide-gamut monitor. But, in other situations (such as sending images to others who will not have comparable monitors, posting images online which must of necessity be viewed through browsers that will assume an sRGB space, etc.), it’s most likely best practice to export in sRGB.

As to editing, using Adobe RGB as your AP document’s color space is reasonable, given that your monitor can probably handle all, or nearly all, of that space. Printing is another concern, as there is most likely no printer out there that can handle ProPhoto, and may choke on whatever the DxO Wide Gamut entails. A post-edit color space conversion would be wise in that situation.

Yea I agree, I have such an issues trying to find a decent printer that even accepts tiff files, let alone 16 bit. Mostly they want jpegs in sRGB, however my camera shoots in 16bit at 200+mb RAW and I'm suppose to send a 2mb jpeg. Have found a couple of great labs, but one pays for it, however I digress...

[Ldina]

@OldHickory30 @smadell's advice is exactly right. It's not a great idea to set your monitor profile as your default editing space for RGB documents. In a color managed workflow (almost all are nowadays), your monitor profile has only one job...to display colors accurately to YOUR monitor. So, if you are working on a file that has an Adobe RGB color space, the numbers in your file will be converted to your monitor profile "on the fly" and those numbers will be modified so they display accurate colors on YOUR monitor. If you send that same file to me, the Adobe RGB numbers will be converted using MY monitor profile and the image will look the same on my monitor as it does on your monitor (assuming both monitors can display all the colors in the file, AND that our monitor profiles accurately describe our monitors). So, you want to use a STANDARD, well accepted editing space for RGB files. (CMYK and HDR are another discussion entirely.)

For RGB documents, sRGB, Adobe RGB and P3 are all good choices for your RGB Color Profile in Affinity Preferences. ROMM RGB (same as ProPhoto RGB) is fine for archiving and preserving all the colors your digital camera is capable of capturing, but no output device on earth can display or reproduce many of those colors. Most RAW processing engines use ProPhoto RGB Linear files to insure the RAW processor doesn't "prematurely clip" any colors from your RAW files. My standard profile for RGB is DCI-P3, which is about the same size as Adobe RGB.

If most or all of your work is destined for the web, sRGB is a great choice for RGB/8 and RGB/16 documents. The good thing about sRGB is that it works even if a browser or app is not color managed because most of those non-color managed apps "assume" a file is sRGB, which means they will display correctly. A case in point is posting images to the Affinity Forum, which is not color managed and strips the profiles from the file when uploaded. The Affinity Forum "assumes" all files are sRGB and will display them accordingly, so you need to upload sRGB files if you want them to display correctly. sRGB is a moderately small color space, but works fine for most images, except for those that are very bright, colorful and saturated. sRGB  will clip some colors that can possibly be displayed or printed on many devices. And many print labs prefer or require sRGB files. 

If you are printing or displaying images on wide gamut monitors that have 99% coverage of Adobe RGB or P3, then those color spaces will preserve more colors and result less clipping and more vivid colors, many of which which CAN be printed or displayed. I print my own images on a wide gamut inkjet, so that's the reason I edit most of my files using Adobe RGB or DCI-P3. When uploading files to the internet or the Affinity Forum, I export to JPG and sRGB color space (when I remember 🫤).

So, pick a standard editing profile for your RGB Color Profile in Affinity Settings/Preferences. sRGB is a great general purpose color space, especially for the web, email, and for print labs that require sRGB. 

[R C-R]

IMO, there is no better source for comprehensive info about color management than https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/color-management-printing.htm, in particular the 3 color management topics in the From Camera to Display to Print section.

[thomaso]

... also this Serif website may shed some light on the misunderstanding with display profiles:

https://affinityspotlight.com/article/display-colour-management-in-the-affinity-apps/

[OldHickory30]

12 hours ago, Ldina said:

@OldHickory30 @smadell's advice is exactly right. It's not a great idea to set your monitor profile as your default editing space for RGB documents. In a color managed workflow (almost all are nowadays), your monitor profile has only one job...to display colors accurately to YOUR monitor. So, if you are working on a file that has an Adobe RGB color space, the numbers in your file will be converted to your monitor profile "on the fly" and those numbers will be modified so they display accurate colors on YOUR monitor. If you send that same file to me, the Adobe RGB numbers will be converted to MY monitor profile and the image will look the same as it does on your monitor (assuming both monitors can display all the colors in the file, AND that our monitor profiles accurately describe our monitors). So, you want to use a STANDARD, well accepted editing space for RGB files. (CMYK and HDR are another discussion entirely.)

For RGB documents, sRGB, Adobe RGB and P3 are all good choices for your RGB Color Profile in Affinity Preferences. ROMM RGB (same as ProPhoto RGB) is fine for archiving and preserving all the colors your digital camera is capable of capturing, but no output device on earth can display or reproduce many of those colors. Most RAW processing engines use ProPhoto RGB Linear files to insure the RAW processor doesn't "prematurely clip" any colors from your RAW files. My standard profile for RGB is DCI-P3, which is about the same size as Adobe RGB.

If most or all of your work is destined for the web, sRGB is a great choice for RGB/8 and RGB/16 documents. The good thing about sRGB is that it works even if a browser or app is not color managed because most of those non-color managed apps "assume" a file is sRGB, which means they will display correctly. A case in point is posting images to the Affinity Forum, which is not color managed and strips the profiles from the file when uploaded. The Affinity Forum "assumes" all files are sRGB and will display them accordingly, so you need to upload sRGB files if you want them to display correctly. sRGB is a moderately small color space, but works fine for most images, except for those that are very bright, colorful and saturated. sRGB  will clip some colors that can possibly be displayed or printed on many devices. And many print labs prefer or require sRGB files. 

If you are printing or displaying images on wide gamut monitors that have 99% coverage of Adobe RGB or P3, then those color spaces will preserve more colors and result less clipping and more vivid colors, many of which which CAN be printed or displayed. I print my own images on a wide gamut inkjet, so that's the reason I edit most of my files using Adobe RGB or DCI-P3. When uploading files to the internet or the Affinity Forum, I export to JPG and sRGB color space (when I remember 🫤).

So, pick a standard editing profile for your RGB Color Profile in Affinity Settings/Preferences. sRGB is a great general purpose color space, especially for the web, email, and for print labs that require sRGB. 

Thanks for the great info, I'd like to use P3 or Adobe by my BenQ is 100% sRGB which is great 80% of the time.

[Ldina]

15 minutes ago, OldHickory30 said:

my BenQ is 100% sRGB

What exact model is your BenQ monitor? Most old monitors were limited to sRGB, but yours may have a gamut that is wider than sRGB, thus enabling you to use wider gamut color spaces (such as Adobe RGB or P3). Many monitors provide different, user adjustable settings, one of which may limit the display to the sRGB color gamut for web browsing. The monitor specs online should clarify that. 

[OldHickory30]

20 minutes ago, Ldina said:

What exact model is your BenQ monitor? Most old monitors were limited to sRGB, but yours may have a gamut that is wider than sRGB, thus enabling you to use wider gamut color spaces (such as Adobe RGB or P3). Many monitors provide different, user adjustable settings, one of which may limit the display to the sRGB color gamut for web browsing. The monitor specs online should clarify that. 

I was researching just  that! I have the BenQ PD3200U. It has a setting for P3 within the monitor settings just not sure it support it, don't think it does. Overall its. great monitor, just would like to have a wider gamut. 

[Ldina]

Thanks. It does look like your monitor is probably limited to sRGB according to the info below, which was listed in the specs for your monitor. sRGB works great for the majority of images. Stick with sRGB as your editing space and set that as your RGB Color Profile in Affinity (for 8/16/32 bit).

Color Gamut

100% sRGB, 100% Rec.709

[OldHickory30]

22 minutes ago, Ldina said:

Thanks. It does look like your monitor is probably limited to sRGB according to the info below, which was listed in the specs for your monitor. sRGB works great for the majority of images. Stick with sRGB as your editing space and set that as your RGB Color Profile in Affinity (for 8/16/32 bit).

Color Gamut

100% sRGB, 100% Rec.709

Thanks for the research, here are my settings! Interesting My MaBook M1 MAX which is my main computer, supports P3-D65, which I can use when a wider gamut is required-accepted, for print. 

[Ldina]

Perfecto. 

I'm using an M4 and it does support P3, which is what I use when developing RAW images on my Mac. You can leave your standard color preferences set to sRGB if you wish, then change the profile in the Affinity Develop Personal to P3 when you want to bring a wider gamut image into Photo.

Or....you can change the Preference color settings on your Mac to P3 if you prefer, which will automatically select P3 and use a wider gamut when developing into Photo. 

[OldHickory30]

Yea thats an interesting idea, I use DXO for my RAW, certainly I can use my M1 for the RAW then take it over to my BenQ, until I get a wider gamut for my main monitor.

[stuck]

I have a 100% Adobe RGB compliant monitor that it is hardware calibrated and profiled.  With the monitor using that hardware profile then I get good colour consistency when I:

1. Use DxO PhotoLab to process my RAW file.
2. In PL, use the DxO Wide Gamut (which according to DxO is similar to Rec. 2020) colour space.
3. Export from PL to a 16 bit TIFF with an embedded Adobe RGB profile.
4. In Affinity Photo 2, with it's working colour space is set to Adobe RGB.
5. Print from Affinity to a decent (but not pro) six colour Epson printer.

Alternatively, if my final image is for sharing electronically then step 5. becomes:

5. Convert the document from Adobe RGB to sRGB, using perceptual rendering intent and black point compensation.

EDITED TO ADD:

DxO say their wide gamut is similar to Rec. 2020 on this page, in the first paragraph under the heading immediatley below Fig 10:

https://www.dxo.com/news/white-paper-wide-gamut/