Develop persona, lens profile and chromatic aberration correction.

[Pehaer]

Hello. I observed different results in chromatic aberration correction when develop RAW using lens profile.
There are two ways:
1. Develop Assistant - selected "Auto-select" in default lens profile. RAW is opened and lens profile and CA correction are selected automatically .

 

2. Develop Assistant - selected "None" in default lens profile. RAW is opened and lens profile (of course the same as above) is selected manually than AC correction also needs to be selected manually.

As you can see results are different. Much worse in first case (auto-select Lens profile in develop assistant)
Shouldn't it be like that, both ways lead to the same result of AC correction?
To tell the truth, first way gives worse picture than no CA correction at all. 

Affinity Photo 2.6.2, windows 11. Checked on two different computers and with different lenses.

[Old Bruce]

I am curious as to why there isn't a choice in the Chromatic Aberration Reduction section like on my Mac. I have the choice to Use Lens Profile or Estimate From Image.

 

[NotMyFault]

In your case of Canon Camera and lens, I can only recommend to use Canon DPP app for RAW development. It is night and day, specifically for CA and defringe.

Canon knows their sensors and specifically lenses extremely well and and delivers superior results without manual tweaking.

Export to tiff and do all other edits in Photo. 

[Pehaer]

Yes, I know and I've been using DPP. But despite the problem with aberration correction I am very pleased with Develop Persona in Affinity Photo. That's why I want it to work properly.

[NotMyFault]

5 minutes ago, Pehaer said:

That's why I want it to work properly.

So do all Affinity users - but seemingly not the Affinity developers who always keep a backlog of at least 100 unfixed bugs in Development Persona alone.

[Pehaer]

2 minutes ago, NotMyFault said:

So do all Affinity users - but seemingly not the Affinity developers who always keep a backlog of at least 100 unfixed bugs in Development Persona alone.

Unfortunately ...

[NathanC]

Hi @Pehaer apologies for the late response,

Could you provide a copy of the .CR2 file (or any sample) where you've encountered this issue? The behaviour here definitely appears to be unexpected based on that comparison.

Thanks

[Pehaer]

Hi @NathanC

Yes, of course. Here it is. Thank you for your interest!

This is most visible on the branches at the bottom of the image.

_MG_9628.CR2

[Ldina]

@Pehaer I routinely use the Develop Persona with my RAW camera images. Whenever I have an image with high contrast edges, e.g., tree branches against a bright sky, I almost always choose "Estimate from Image" for Chromatic Aberration Reduction in the Develop Persona. It usually does an excellent job reducing or eliminating color fringing along those high contrast edges. I guess that makes sense, since this CA reduction is based on the actual image content, FWIW. 

In your image, I found the CA was actually reduced with the Chromatic Aberration Reduction turned OFF, compared to using the supplied lens profile. Estimate from Image was better than both. 

I guess it depends on how good the profiles are for a specific lens in the LensFun database and how well the Develop Persona and LibRAW implement those corrections. Not all lenses include all correction features...chromatic aberration, distortion, vignette removal, etc. 

Anyway, my "Go To" is always "Estimate from Image" for Chromatic Aberration in the Develop Persona. Works great for me. 

EDIT: By the way, your current Zoom Level can make a difference. I usually look at 100%, 200% and 400% when assessing CA reduction.

[Pehaer]

3 hours ago, Ldina said:

 Estimate from Image was better than both.

The problem is: I have not such option.

Old Bruce also brought this to my attention in his post.

[Ldina]

Hmmmm…I wonder if resetting the app will help. Check Frequently Asked Question and search for how to reset the app. I know that is in the List of FAQs. You can lose some custom settings and resources when doing a reset, so make sure you read how to back them up before resetting. 

I assume this is for Mas or Windows (not iPad) since it was listed on this part of the forum.

[Pehaer]

I'm not sure if resseting helps. I'm afraid that is difference between Windows and Mac regarding lens panel in develop persona.

It looks the same on my two different machines with Windows 10 and 11

[Ldina]

I’m on a Mac and Estimate from image has always been available for chromatic aberration correction…I assumed it was available on Windows too. You’ll need feedback from other windows users or Serif staff on that subject. 

[NotMyFault]

Check that you are using Serif RAW, not Apple RAW engine.

[Old Bruce]

4 minutes ago, NotMyFault said:

Check that you are using Serif RAW, not Apple RAW engine.

The OP, @Pehaer's first screenshot shows a Windows version of the application. So no Apple raw engine is available. However, on occasion I will switch from the Serif engine and get caught by this so your suggestion is good advice for those of us on Mac OS.

[NotMyFault]

For those who want to pixel peep. below a tiff exported from Canon DPP. I rate this image superior in so many criteria.

I forgot to even download the lens profile. I used the default "neutral" picture profile, no adjustments at all.

Because of the missing lens profile (in canon DPP, no CA was applied. Never the less less magenta / blue color fringe than in Affinity)

1. It is so much sharper, less CA etc compared to Affinity.
2. Much more contrast, e.g. small bright spots between leaves
3. Affinity is unable to remove CA with any setting /using lens profile or infer from image).
4. The default defying settings are rubbish, and have no effect at all You must reduce threshold to 75% to see any effect. I don't know why the default settings are so useless.

I' a bit emotional as the bad CA and defying was one I my first claims, and those got repaired a bit in about V1.6.5 or so. Before, I got crash, remove opposite hue was useless.

Now it is still far too much manual work and Affinity is still 10 times behind Canon DPP for difficult RAW files (with CA, noise, loss of sharpness etc).

 

 

_MG_9628 default neutral pict profile.TIF

[NotMyFault]

And now 2 versions with lens profile from canon DPP:

 1. Remove CA with default settings 

2. Digital lens Optimizer. This sharpens the image using lens specific data, but disables CA removal.

 

I suggest to create a live stack of all images (tiff export from API, and 3 exports from DPP) and compare the details

_MG_9628 lens optim.TIF _MG_9628_lens prof remove CA.TIF

[Ldina]

@NotMyFault There's no doubt one has to make more adjustments and do more work with the Affinity Develop Persona. No adjustments at all are applied to the RAW data, except Color Noise Reduction, which is the default. So, images will typically look flat, dull, less sharp, lower contrast, saturation, etc., and will need manual adjustment. I find that setting Chromatic Aberration Reduction to Estimate from Image does an excellent job and is as good or close to DPP in that regard. I'm not much concerned if CA isn't perfect at 400% or 800% magnification.

I can generally match DPP results, or come very close with the Develop Persona, but admittedly, with more work. I like the Develop Persona largely because it is integrated with Photo and for the RAW Layer Linked feature, which keeps my AfPhoto file sizes VERY small, and allows me to go back and forth between Photo and Develop at any time. I always work in 16 bit, (for SDR images), so a typical AfPhoto file using RAW Layer Linked will be below 5MB, instead of 100-250MB when working on a multilayer, 16 bit file using pixel based layers exported from a RAW processor. I prefer to do most of my work non-destructively in Photo anyway, rather than baking changes into the file when exporting from a RAW converter to a Pixel layer. At least for me, the benefits outweigh the shortcomings. 

After processing thousands of images using the Develop Persona, I know how to use it pretty well and can get what I want fairly quickly. DPP and some other RAW Processors do a much better job without a lot of fiddling, and are good choices, especially if one wants a quick RAW development (for client proofs, email images, etc). I do wish the Develop Persona allowed us to create better, more flexible Develop Presets (not the limited presets they currently offer), and then set those up as defaults, or apply them using one mouse click (like in the Tone Mapping Persona). There's plenty of room for improvement, but I'm content using it and get great results. Just another point of view. 

EDIT: By the way, I agree that Canon DPP will be the most accurate when processing Canon RAW images (especially the initial view, without the need for a lot of manual adjustments!). All other RAW processors will impart their own "flavor" or "recipe", which while often pleasing, will not be as accurate. Nobody knows their own sensors, algorithms and processing like the OEM. 

[NathanC]

 

15 hours ago, Pehaer said:

I'm not sure if resseting helps. I'm afraid that is difference between Windows and Mac regarding lens panel in develop persona.

It looks the same on my two different machines with Windows 10 and 11

The missing CA reduction options on Windows is a known UI bug currently logged with the developers. I've bumped this with your report.

[Pehaer]

11 hours ago, NathanC said:

 

The missing CA reduction options on Windows is a known UI bug currently logged with the developers. I've bumped this with your report.

Thank you.

 

[Pehaer]

It is worth adding that a similar problem to the one with CA also occurs with Remove Lens Vignette. 

That means - different results with automatic and manual lens profile selection.

[Old Bruce]

23 hours ago, Ldina said:

EDIT: By the way, I agree that Canon DPP will be the most accurate when processing Canon RAW images (especially the initial view, without the need for a lot of manual adjustments!). All other RAW processors will impart their own "flavor" or "recipe", which while often pleasing, will not be as accurate. Nobody knows their own sensors, algorithms and processing like the OEM. 

I agree with the intent of this, the camera manufacturer knows how to get the best results. But... I am continually frustrated with Canon's DPP, on my system it is really slow and clunky compared to Affinity Photo. I use it mainly to view the thousands of CR2 files I have and once in a while I will batch process a bunch of images to TIFFs. Just my experience, I am sure that others will have nothing but joy working with Canon's DPP.

Post Script: I would be remiss to not point out that at least a quarter of my CR2 files are shot with extremely old Nikkor glass via lens mount adapters.

[Ldina]

4 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

I agree with the intent of this, the camera manufacturer knows how to get the best results. But... I am continually frustrated with Canon's DPP, on my system it is really slow and clunky compared to Affinity Photo.

Total Agreement...one more reason I use the Develop Persona. When I used LightRoom, I used that instead of DPP because DPP was 'Slow and Clunky'. And at the time, (many moons ago), DPP didn't offer any highlight recovery, which I found surprising. That's probably changed. DPP does a great job, but I didn't like using it. To each his own.