Colours losing their Vibrancy when using an Image Brush in Affinity Photo (.PNGs)

[DelN]

Hi,

Does anyone know why when I create an Image Brush in Affinity Photo, the vibrancy of colour of the original .PNG image is lost when I paint a brush stroke with the new image brush that I have created. It becomes dull and loses it's intensity/purity of color? It doesn't happen all the time, but quite a lot. I have tried adjusting the settings of the Image Brush and pressing RESET in the Brush Settings box, but nothing seems to work. the image looks fine in the display, but is dull when I use the brush.

I am not the only one to highlight this colour. I saw a post recently describing exactly what I have written above, but no one has replied to it (to date).

I have a HP OMEN laptop running Windows 11.

Thanks,

 

Examples

 

 

[NotMyFault]

Which color format and profile do you use for brush png and document using the brush?
CMYK document could explain loss of saturation vs. RGB brush.

 

[Ldina]

@DelN I think it has to do with the colorspace of your document.

• Create two identical blank RGB documents. Set one to sRGB and set the other to a wider gamut color space, such as ROMM RGB.
• Grab a colorful image brush, make it very large, then Stamp it onto a pixel layer. Do the same exact stamp in both documents. 
• Switch back and forth between documents and you will see that the ROMM RGB version is much more saturated and colorful. Same brush, different result.

My conclusion is that the colors in your Image Brush (created from a PNG image) are made up of RGB Numbers ONLY, but those numbers do not have any particular ICC profile associated with them...they're just numbers. So, when you paint, those color numbers are interpreted by the color space of your current document and rendered accordingly. Specific colors need RGB numbers AND a color profile to define them. 200R 50G 0B looks very different in different RGB color spaces. The LAB equivalent for  200R 50G 0B will be different in sRGB, Adobe RGB, DCI-P3, ROMM RGB, etc. 

I guess the safest plan is to create your brushes in the same colorspace you intend to use in the future. sRGB is probably the safest bet overall, especially if sharing with others and the internet is your final display destination. If you plan to work in sRGB, do everything in sRGB (creation of your original PNG for the brush, brush creation, and when painting, work in a sRGB document). This ought to keep your colors consistent. If instead you plan to always work in Adobe RGB, DCI-P3 or ROMM RGB, do everything in your chosen color space.

By the way, I think color palettes work the same way. RGB, HSL, Hex, and CMYK defined palettes are ONLY numbers and those numbers will interpreted by the current document color space and rendered accordingly. Palettes defined using LAB should look the same in all color spaces, providing the LAB color fits into the color gamut of that color space. 

I think the above is correct, but if not, someone please enlighten me. 

EDIT: (additional thought). If your colors are lackluster in your existing color space when painting, you can ASSIGN a wider color gamut ICC profile, which will re-interpret the colors and add saturation. You can then convert on export to preserve those brighter colors, providing the colors fit into the color space you are exporting TO.

[DelN]

Thanks, guys. Gonna have to go back and study the above info and check. I only use RGB for my brushes, but will check and reply here.

Thanks again...

 

[DelN]

Well, that was interesting. 

I created three blank A4 landscape documents (300dpi) in Affinity Photo, in which I painted three examples of the same brushes. The results were very different in the vibrancy of colour. In the first two, the colours were quite dull and washed out, S RGB 32 HDR more so than ROMM RGB 32 HDR. The ROMM RGB 32 HDR looked more pink to me...

The RGB8, however, retained all the colour vibrancy of the original brush stroke.

1. ROMM RGB 32 HDR
2. S RGB 32 HDR
3. RGB8

It seems that if you use an RGB8 file to do your work, the colours of the original brushes stay vibrant, but if you use either of the two HDR files, the colours and dull and washed out. However, if you do your work in RGB8, then paste it into one of these two other RGB HDR files, the vibrancy of colour is retained.

I have pasted in a screengrab of the three brushes from the Brush Editor in each file. I have uploaded the exported JPGs from the three files, and have also uploaded the original three Affinity Photo files in case you want to look at them. I have also included the three brushes in Test Brushes.afbrushes.

Thanks again for all your help, guys. You have solved this problem for me. I'll contact the other Affinity Photo user and let her know. It was bugging her too. 

Del

 

 

 

 

S RGB 32 HDR.afphoto ROMM RGB 32 HDR.afphoto RGB8.afphoto Test Brushes.afbrushes

[NotMyFault]

Do not use RGB/32 or ultra-wide gamut color profiles unless you fully understand the impact to your workflow.

it is absolutely OK to experiment, and when you observe something unexpected please start in the questions section, and give full context like color formats and profiles used right in the start.

RGB/32 is only useful for EDR/HDR workflows with images having color values exceeding 1.0 or SDR. They have many restrictions and unexpected consequences. Most adjustments, filters, blend modes behave differently or just wrong as they were not designed for HDR

 

[DelN]

OK. Thanks NotMyFault. I wouldn't normally use either HDR file type as I have no need nor do I fully understand them. RGB8 is fine for what I use Affinity Photo for.

2 hours ago, NotMyFault said:

when you observe something unexpected please start in the questions section, and give full context like color formats and profiles used right in the start.

Thanks for this info. I must admit I am never sure where to post something of this nature. I'll start in the Questions section, as you advise.

Thanks again for all your help.

 

[Ldina]

@DelN As @NotMyFault mentioned, don't use 32 bit...that's for specialized work for EDR/HDR imagery, extended brightness ranges, HDR monitors, and uses a Linear Tone Curve. 

sRGB 8 bit, and sRGB 16 bit will give you the same appearance using brushes and palettes because they use the same color space and gamma curve. 16 bit files may show smoother gradients (and will have larger file sizes), especially in things like skies where you are blending very similar colors, gradients and blurs, but otherwise they should look identical. sRGB 8 bit will probably be fine for most of your work and is also a good choice for the web.

If you created your brushes using a larger color space (e.g., Adobe RGB), then your brushes will only retain the original color and saturation when used in a document set up as Adobe RGB. If that's the case, set up your document as Adobe RGB. If you want your final work to be sRGB, Export to PNG, JPG, TIFF, etc, and choose sRGB as your output color space. Your colors will be "converted" to sRGB and will retain their color appearance (as long as the sRGB color space is large enough to contain them).

While creating a design, if your brush colors look dull, then ASSIGN a wider color space to your Affinity document and all your RGB values will be re-interpreted using the larger color space. For example, create a sRGB 8 bit document and use your brush. If it looks duller than when created, your brush was probably created using a wider color space, such as Adobe RGB. So, ASSIGN Adobe RGB to your sRGB document and your RGB values will be reinterpreted, and will immediately boost the color and saturation. 

CONVERTING to another color space preserves color appearance and changes the RGB numbers.

ASSIGNING a new color space to a document preserves the RGB numbers and changes the color appearance. 

p.s. To avoid confusion for yourself and others, I'd recommend you create ALL your brushes using one color space. 

[DelN]

Thanks, Ldina. You really know your stuff! 

😀

[DelN]

I just wanted you guys to know that you solved this loss of colour vibrancy problem that I and another AP user was having (see above) - for quite some time too.

In an RGB/8 file format, the colours of the image brushes are bright and vibrant (as the original .PNG image).

Thanks again, guys!

Del