How to change the default layer rotation direction to clockwise?

[ajtestov]

Hello. This is a simple question, but it is giving me a headache.

 

Is there a way to change the default rotation direction when using the Transform panel? It is counter-clockwise by default and every time I want to rotate a layer in a direction that feels natural to me (from using Illustrator) I need to type in "-45" instead of just "45".

 

Thanks in advance.

[NotMyFault]

No, this can’t be configured.

[MikeTO]

Hi @ajtestov and welcome to the forums.

No, you can't change the rotation direction. I've been caught by this, too, but I'm used to it now. I often do it visually - hold down Shift while rotating to constrain to 15 degree increments.

[ajtestov]

Thank you!

It's a shame it cannot be changed. I know, I will get used to it. But I am teaching people to work in Designer and small things like that make it a little bit harder for people to learn their first design program. Everything's new and complicated and they can feel every additional hurdle that they need to jump over. Maybe this could be addressed in the future.

Thank you for the answers.

[NotMyFault]

This would make a good feature request 

[GarryP]

55 minutes ago, ajtestov said:

But I am teaching people to work in Designer and small things like that make it a little bit harder for people to learn their first design program.

If it’s their first design program then surely they won’t be used to it being either way round yet, so it might feel natural for them to use positive anti-clockwise rotation if that’s what they are taught from the start.

This could be especially true if they have already learned about rotations in mathematics/physics which are that way round.

[Alfred]

7 minutes ago, GarryP said:

This could be especially true if they have already learned about rotations in mathematics/physics which are that way round.

I suspect the problem is that rotations in mathematics/physics are less widely known than rotations around a compass.

[GarryP]

You could be right, but I wonder how many people learn how to use a compass these days compared to how many people learn the kind of maths which covers basic trigonometry and geometrical transformations. (I have no idea how I might start to find the answer to that, or whether the answer would be relevant to this issue since we are talking about people learning to use Designer - I don't know the 'learning path' there.)

I’m not saying that it should be either way round, or that either way is ‘wrong’ – for example AutoCAD (by default) and Blender both rotate counter-clockwise for a positive rotation, while SVG rotates clockwise – I’m just wondering if people learning it for the first time really have that much of a “hurdle” to negotiate.

If the user can set an option for the way they like it then, in principle, I have no problem with that, but I think it could cause a bit of bother when trying to support the software: “Rotate it by five degrees. Which way? In a positive direction. Which way is that? Etc.”

[Alfred]

26 minutes ago, GarryP said:

You could be right, but I wonder how many people learn how to use a compass these days compared to how many people learn the kind of maths which covers basic trigonometry and geometrical transformations.

I was thinking of people reading maps rather than actually using a compass, but point taken!

[prophet]

With no context, I asked my wife to rotate a piece of paper that was laid flat on the desk and she went clockwise. Afterward, she said it was because she's right handed and it felt more natural.

Perhaps lefties feel differently?

[Pšenda]

14 minutes ago, prophet said:

Perhaps lefties feel differently?

I don't think it has anything to do with left-handedness or right-handedness 🙂
I would rather see a context with the type of education and the type of work/practice. For someone with a technical/mathematical background, calculating angles counterclockwise is completely natural.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angle

P.S. I think that even in elementary school, when right angles are discussed, they are drawn upwards from the X-axis, not downwards 🙂

[ajtestov]

4 hours ago, GarryP said:

I’m just wondering if people learning it for the first time really have that much of a “hurdle” to negotiate.

When you are teaching people, you want every tool to work as straightforward as possible. Every small complication can make things.. more complicated. The reason for this is that you're teaching many different people. And for some people it is very hard to understand the mechanics of the software. Your explanations often sound good only in your head, but when you put them into practice, people just don't understand.

 

The level of problems that rise during the teaching process is probably much much lower than you expect. For example, there are people that aren't good with using a computer mouse. Imagine their struggles. Or there are things that are hard for some (otherwise smart) people to comprehend. Mostly because it's a completely new field of knowledge for them. They just have no idea how graphical editors work. At all.

 

Here is an example:

- I tell my pupil that they should use Move Tool to move a layer and that they want to have their cursor somewhere in the middle of that layer, so they're not touching the handles.

- The student persistently tries to move the layer by grabbing it by one of the handles.

I could give many more examples, but I think I've made my point here. As a teacher you want things to work straightforward. And if they don't, you're spending a lot of time preparing for a lesson, sitting there looking for ways to make it easier for your students. 🤔🤔🤔

 

[GarryP]

I can’t be bothered to try and ‘argue the toss’ about this because I don’t think we will see ‘eye to eye’ on this any time soon.

From my point of view this is simply a ‘teaching/learning issue’ rather than a problem with the application.

Have you considered the reverse of the situation you are describing? In other words, if rotation were to changed to positive clockwise, what do you do when you get students who are used to used to it being the other way round? They would have to ‘re-learn’ something in the same way as what you say is happening for your students.

Have you asked your students which way round they expect it to be? What is the ratio between clockwise and counter-clockwise, and how do you take that into consideration in your lessons?

[MikeTO]

Affinity is not alone in rotating objects counterclockwise for positive values. Apple Pages does the same. Apps often rotate in this direction because this is the way PostScript works.

[R C-R]

7 hours ago, ajtestov said:

- I tell my pupil that they should use Move Tool to move a layer and that they want to have their cursor somewhere in the middle of that layer, so they're not touching the handles.

- The student persistently tries to move the layer by grabbing it by one of the handles.

I could give many more examples, but I think I've made my point here. As a teacher you want things to work straightforward.

??? To me, that just sounds like students ignoring what the teacher is trying to teach them in a very straightforward manner about how to move a layer vs. resizing it. Besides, for anyone paying much attention to what the UI is telling them, the status bar should provide all the info they need, even without help from a teacher.

As an aside, regarding the rotation I wonder how many young people do not even think about a clock face when considering how rotation should work -- I have seen comments on the web about youngsters as mystified about how to read an analog clock as how a dial telephone works. Their entire world is digital.

[Alfred]

8 hours ago, prophet said:

With no context, I asked my wife to rotate a piece of paper that was laid flat on the desk and she went clockwise. Afterward, she said it was because she's right handed and it felt more natural.

Perhaps lefties feel differently?

 

8 hours ago, Pšenda said:

I don't think it has anything to do with left-handedness or right-handedness 🙂

For what little it’s worth, neither do I. I’m right-handed, but I find it easier to unscrew a jar lid with my left hand (because of the direction of the rotation required for that). For exactly the same reason, it would feel more natural to rotate the piece of paper clockwise with my left hand but the opposite way with my right.