Export Colors for prints

[Alix-sdt]

Hello,

I have a problem with the colors that are printed. They seem very pale compared to what I see on all different screens. 
I have not changed my settings, the papers or anything and it happened with various professional printer.

What do you think causes the problems?

 

[Ldina]

@Alix-sdt Could be many things, but it's hard to diagnose based on the limited info you provided. Paper and ink cannot print all the colors your monitor can display, nor can it match the dynamic range of your monitor. The paper you print on, the inks you use, color profiles, etc, can all have an impact.

I suggest you upload an Affinity file that is not printing well, a screenshot of ALL your Affinity Print dialog settings, and a screenshot of your printer driver settings. 

[Alix-sdt]

Hi @Ldina,

I don’t have the printer driver settings. It’s a company who prints the file for me. But I send them files with the same caracteristic than previously (Cmjn coated fogra39), print it on the same paper and it came pale compared to the file. It’s the first time it happened. 
And it happened also on another file that was printed by a magazine (so again I don’t have all the infos).

So I’m trying to find a solution so it won’t happen again.

[Alix-sdt]

@LdinaHere are the files. But the main thing is it’s the same settings, same paper and same printer (company not object). 
 

narnia A4.afdesign

[Ldina]

@Alix-sdt Thank you for uploading the document and the settings (a screenshot is better than a smartphone photo, for future reference).

Unfortunately, I don't speak French and don't know what all your PDF export settings are. It doesn't look like my Desktop version (v2.6.2) and the settings are arranged differently, otherwise it would be fairly easy to figure out. A French speaker will probably be better able to help. 

Is this one of the Affinity PDF Presets?

If so, which one?

Is this the same PDF preset you have used in the past?

I'm guessing that "Integrer le Profile" means embed the profile in the document? If so, have you tried turning that OFF so as to provide a device CMYK file, or a PDF/X-1a file? 

 

[Alix-sdt]

@Ldina thanks for your reply.

yes it’s an affinity preset, the first one for pdf (if I translate it directly it would be something like « pfd (for print) »

It’s exactly the same as I used before with no problem.

Yes it means « embed the profile ».

what I don’t understand is that is look a little like the file has been created in RVB and then changed to CMYK, but it’s not the case. The profile was the right one from the beginning 

 

[Ldina]

1 hour ago, Alix-sdt said:

what I don’t understand is that is look a little like the file has been created in RVB and then changed to CMYK, but it’s not the case. The profile was the right one from the beginning 

I opened your file in Designer v2.6.2, and yes, it opens with Fogra 39 profile. I exported to PDF a few different ways. PDF/X-1a using 'Document Profile' (PDF 1.4), Press Ready (PSD 1.7), and Press Ready but converting image to document CMYK but NOT embedding the profile (PDF 1.7). In Acrobat Pro X (CS6) the two PDF 1.7 documents show an RGB Transparency Blending Space (sRGB 2014). The PDF/X-1a document is a flat file without transparency. I'm wondering if the RGB transparency blend space is shifting colors on you when processed by the printer. When I reopen all three PDFs in Designer, they all open fine and look the same as your original AD file, and all show Fogra 39 as the profile of the document. Your export settings "Use document profile" and don't do any conversions from what I can see.

Do you have the full PDF submission requirements for your commercial printer? That will help ensure your file is submitted as they require...PDF/X version, transparency, PDF versions, embed profiles or just Device CMYK, etc. 

I've sent many jobs to press, but none created using Affinity, so it might be best if someone who does this regularly helps you. 

[Ldina]

@Alix-sdt One last thought...

Most of your design is pixel-based. There are only a few vector elements...text (already converted to curves), a few other curves and shapes. You could duplicate the entire design and rasterize the duplicate (save your original components as a backup in their current form). Then export your rasterized layer to PDF, and since it is already a single, flattened, rasterized layer, you won't have any concerns about transparency, blend spaces, etc. As long as your export settings are in accord with what your printer requires, it should print correctly.

I know that's not the ideal solution, and perhaps there is a much better one, but it's a possibility.. 

[Alix-sdt]

@Ldina thank you so much for taking the time to make all those tests!

If I understand correctly, the pdf in acrobate appears as a RVB not a CMYK.

what do you use AD for then? And with what software do you send drawing to press?

I have seen on others forums that the color in affinity can be a problem, so I’m considering switching to procreate but there are many features I like in affinity…

[Alfred]

12 hours ago, Ldina said:

Unfortunately, I don't speak French and don't know what all your PDF export settings are.

Changing the interface language in APh on iPad (version 2.6.2) takes me from this

to this:

[Alfred]

12 hours ago, Ldina said:

(a screenshot is better than a smartphone photo, for future reference)

Take a screenshot on your iPad

Réaliser une capture d’écran sur un iPad

[Ldina]

7 hours ago, Alix-sdt said:

If I understand correctly, the pdf in acrobate appears as a RVB not a CMYK.

No...your PDF is definitely CMYK, Fogra 39, which I presume is what your printer wants.

However, if you have any transparency in your document, it will use an RGB "blending space" to  blend any transparent color to CMYK, rather than utilizing a CMYK 'blending space" to do this. Affinity always uses RGB for transparency blending (sRGB 2014?), at least to my understanding. That's why I suggested flattening your document before exporting to PDF, or possibly using PDF/X-1a (which flattens your document during export....using RGB transparency blending space). If those exported PDFs look good to you, they ought to print properly. Rasterization will convert all your vector work to pixels at the export resolution.

All the jobs I've sent to press used Adobe InDesign, which does support CMYK transparency blending space. Adobe also wrote the Postscript and PDF code, which is used universally in print. Affinity uses the free PDF-LIB module for exporting to PDF, which has some limitations, plus Affinity apps do not support CMYK transparency blending spaces. For press work, it's probably best to avoid transparency, and have access to a robust PDF analysis tool to preview PDFs prior to submittal. 

As mentioned before, I'm not really qualified to offer the best advice for submitting PDFs for Press when using Affinity Apps. Others on this forum do this regularly and can offer better insight. 

 

[Alix-sdt]

@Ldina ok this is very helpful! Thanks a lot. There was indeed transparencies in the files so it explain it all.

have a good day and thank you for your time 🙏🏻

[Ldina]

20 minutes ago, Alix-sdt said:

ok this is very helpful! Thanks a lot. There was indeed transparencies in the files so it explain it all.

have a good day and thank you for your time 🙏🏻

You're welcome.

As I mentioned previously, nearly all of the design you posted is made up of pixels already, and you only have a few vector elements. As long as your export resolution is adequate for the final print size, it shouldn't matter. 

Good luck, and have a good day too!

[Ldina]

@Alix-sdt if you try any of these strategies with your service provider, please let us know what you did and how it worked (or didn’t). Your feedback will be valuable to others who find this discussion. Thank you.