Table flow between text frames

[rickrokkett]

Hi! I love Publisher's intuitive design—it's awesome! However, the inability of tables to flow from one text frame to another makes Publisher unusable for serious work.

Here's a simple example of a task that's easy to accomplish in InDesign but currently impossible in Publisher. I need a two-column table to flow between frames so that I can set a fill color and a border for each cell. Since Publisher doesn't support this, I'm forced to use regular text frames, which makes it impossible to set a fill color and a border.

This is why table flow needs to be added to Publisher. Please make it usable—I want it to be my main tool!

[MikeTO]

While spanning tables is a valuable feature, there's a way to do this without tables.

I'd create one text frame per page with as many columns as required, and link frames from page to page if necessary. Then I'd paste the list of numbers into the frame and set the paragraph background colours as required. If I wanted multiple columns of numbers in each column of the frame, I'd use tabs to separate them and set the tab stops to align them as required.

[rickrokkett]

What you see is the final result of me trying different combinations of height, width, and the number of columns—which would be a real headache if I used the method you suggest. Also, as I said, this is an example of a simple task that still requires workarounds. Creating more complex tables would still be impossible. Table spanning isn't just a valuable feature; it's an essential one if Affinity wants Publisher to be competitive. Ignoring this fact is simply turning a blind eye to the truth.

[GarryP]

39 minutes ago, rickrokkett said:

Ignoring this fact is simply turning a blind eye to the truth.

I’ve seen no evidence that Serif are ignoring this type of feature.

On the contrary, they have said, more than once, that it’s something that they might add in the future, for example: https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/183354-table-frustrations-waiting-for-table-spreading-since-2019/#findComment-1064596

It’s just one of the many things which some people want which hasn’t yet been implemented, probably because Serif can’t add everything that everyone wants all at the same time, and what’s a ‘high priority’ for some users is of no consequence to other users.

I’m fairly sure that if this were to be implemented tomorrow someone would come onto the forums and complain along the lines of: “Why has this useless table spreading nonsense been implemented when I still haven’t got <my pet functionality> which I’ve been asking for since <pick a timescale>?”

We can use the tools that are available, or we can choose some other tools.

[rickrokkett]

On 3/19/2025 at 12:37 PM, GarryP said:

I’m fairly sure that if this were to be implemented tomorrow someone would come onto the forums and complain along the lines of: “Why has this useless table spreading nonsense been implemented when I still haven’t got <my pet functionality> which I’ve been asking for since <pick a timescale>?”

I don't know what you use Publisher for, but I consider tables a crucial tool for organizing information on the page even if it doesn't contain actual tables which makes them a crucial tool for everyone, not some people. I just wanted to once more emphasize the importance of this tool.

On 3/19/2025 at 12:37 PM, GarryP said:

We can use the tools that are available, or we can choose some other tools.

I assume you're suggesting that I use Indesign or CorelDraw instead. Good advice on a Serif forum. Thank you.

[fde101]

43 minutes ago, rickrokkett said:

I consider tables a crucial tool for organizing information on the page

For some types of projects they are.  For others they are useless.

All depends on what you are working on.

 

There is a saying floating around the 'net that "if the only tool in your toolbox is a hammer, every project looks like a nail."

 

I have Affinity Publisher, QuarkXPress and Swift Publisher right next to each other in my dock.  

Each has advantages over the others.

Different tools for different projects.

[rickrokkett]

15 minutes ago, fde101 said:

For some types of projects they are.  For others they are useless.

Well, for 1–2 page documents, which any vector or photo editor can handle, they are indeed useless. I'm not asking Publisher to be Photoshop or Blender. The subject of this argument seems weird to me, or perhaps my assumption that Publisher is being marketed as an InDesign competitor is wrong.

[GarryP]

19 hours ago, rickrokkett said:

I consider tables a crucial tool for organizing information on the page even if it doesn't contain actual tables which makes them a crucial tool for everyone, not some people.

I think you might be mistakenly assuming that everyone else's needs are the same as your own.

If spanning tables across text frames was crucial for everyone then the software probably wouldn’t be used by as many people.

Having a way to move things around on the page is crucial, being able to change colours is (for most people) crucial, but being able to span tables between text frames isn’t, for everyone.

The evidence of this can be seen in all of the examples of Publisher use posted in these forums (and, I’m sure, existing elsewhere) which either don’t have tables in them at all or don’t need spanned tables.

As has been mentioned, such functionality might be useful, or even crucial, to some people but many users can get along without it just fine as they don’t need it.

19 hours ago, rickrokkett said:

I assume you're suggesting that I use Indesign or CorelDraw instead. Good advice on a Serif forum.

I’m suggesting that if Publisher doesn’t meet even your basic, crucial, requirements then you might like to consider using software that does. That would seem to be pretty reasonable advice to me, no matter where it was given.

[PaoloT]

I don't know how relevant a target are essays, school books and technical manuals for Serif, but without tables spanning over multiple frames/pages there is little chance that Publisher can be used for them.

I hope menus, flyers and self-published books are not the only uses they have in mind,

Paolo

 

[GarryP]

11 minutes ago, PaoloT said:

I don't know how relevant a target are essays, school books and technical manuals for Serif, but without  tables spanning over multiple frames/pages there is little chance that Publisher can be used for them.

Do all of those things always need to have tables which span across different pages/frames?

I’m pretty sure they don’t as I’ve seen lots of examples of them which don’t have tables spanning across pages/frames.

The process might be easier if the functionality existed but it’s not currently impossible. 

There seems to be some confusion here between “crucial” and “useful”, or “difficult” and “unusable”.

I don’t have a problem with having table-spanning being implemented, but saying that the software can’t be used for some types of documents because it doesn’t have that functionality is simply wrong.

[Alfred]

1 hour ago, PaoloT said:

I don't know how relevant a target are essays, school books and technical manuals for Serif, but without tables spanning over multiple frames/pages there is little chance that Publisher can be used for them.

In my experience, technical manuals frequently make use of tables, some types of schoolbook may use them occasionally, and essays hardly ever use them (if at all).

[AllanP]

I understand that not every user will have a need for flowing tables, but some will. I always found it useful in Serif's PagePlus.

When the content for a publication includes tables supplied as Excel tables, the table flow feature would be more efficient than taking a copy of the placed Excel  and cropping it to fit one page, then taking another copy of the source Excel file and cropping it to get the content for the next page, and repeat as required ... Some of the work I've dealt with has included several long tables supplied as Excel files.

I encourage Serif to add the feature to Affinity Publisher.

[GarryP]

42 minutes ago, anto said:

Do you think the Spiral tool is useful for all users? Or does it have such a high priority?
Nobody cares about priorities. Serif does not listen to users at all. 

You're all very theorizing according to the rules. The reality is completely different.

I’m not sure that you have understood the situation that I’ve been trying to explain, or how I’ve been trying to explain it, or why.

rickrokkett made the suggestion that Serif were ignoring this feature, which was proven to be incorrect.

Then they asserted that spanning tables was crucial for all users, which was proven to be incorrect.

I don’t think anyone in this thread has said anything against such functionality being implemented, personally I think it would be a nice addition, but various assertions have been made, and it has been shown that those assertions aren’t always correct.

That’s all that is happening here: some people are saying some things and other people are proving some of those things to be wrong.

[PaoloT]

3 hours ago, Alfred said:

In my experience, technical manuals frequently make use of tables, some types of schoolbook may use them occasionally, and essays hardly ever use them (if at all).

In linguistics, philology, sociology, archaeology, music theory (just to be limited to my areas of expertise) tables are indispensable elements.

In any case, it is not a matter of choosing by each text: when choosing a tool, you need one that can satisfy the needs of any work in that area. The adoption of Publisher can only be decided on a general set of requirements, and not on its ability of being used in a subset of titles.

Paolo

 

[Meliora spero]

On 3/21/2025 at 2:15 PM, rickrokkett said:

I don't know what you use Publisher for, but I consider tables a crucial tool for organizing information on the page even if it doesn't contain actual tables which makes them a crucial tool for everyone, not some people. I just wanted to once more emphasize the importance of this tool.

I assume you're suggesting that I use Indesign or CorelDraw instead. Good advice on a Serif forum. Thank you.

Serif markets Affinity as "professional" software, but as you can see from the responses here, it primarily appeals to price-sensitive hobbyists, solo freelancers, and occasionally retired creatives who can't -  shouldn't - pay the price for enterprise-grade tools.

The tables are a usability mess, and for serious use like you’re aiming for, they’re completely unusable. That’s just one of several major limitations. You’ll never get people in this forum to admit that, because they don’t understand it. Their replies clearly reflect their own limited needs and perspective. All these copy-and-paste workarounds aren’t that different from cutting and gluing paper together, or the hands-on layout work typographers used to do before things went to print. 

Serif doesn’t make software for professionals. They think they do, but actual professionals don’t use it. The forum members here believe Serif is making tools for professionals, but they’re not professionals themselves - and they don’t realize Affinity isn’t used professionally. So while the small but loyal group of users here keep liking each other’s suggestions, the world is moving on - beyond them and beyond Affinity. The forum here seems to be their hobby—more than anything else.

Serif has been in the business for 37 years, but has spent very little of that time learning from its mistakes, from the strengths of its competitors, or from the actual needs of users. They like to think they know a thing or two - but it's probably more about the needs of small-time customers in Nottingham.

Serious table work in documents? InDesign, CorelDraw, or even Word, frankly.

[rickrokkett]

I get the feeling that some people in this thread didn’t understand me correctly. Perhaps my example wasn’t self-explanatory enough, so I feel the need to clarify exactly what I meant by using spanning tables and why I think it’s a crucial tool—again, assuming Publisher is a professional editor.

Here are two pages from a product catalog I’ve almost finished working on in InDesign. Each product’s info is a complex table containing text, shapes, and images, which is, in turn, positioned within a cell of a table that spans across multiple pages. If products are added or removed from the catalog, the whole grid readjusts automatically due to the main table spanning across pages. Now imagine the nightmare of moving everything manually across 50+ pages every time you add a new product, and you’ll understand why I think this is a crucial tool for a professional editor.

Anticipating your answers—yes, not all users need this. But if we’re talking about professional use, I assume we’re considering working with tens or hundreds of pages where data needs to be organized and easily edited. That’s where spanning tables come into play, and that’s where they make the difference between hobbyist and pro software.

 

 

 

 

[GarryP]

Since the ‘professional versus non-professional’ argument has been raised yet again I will take this opportunity to conclude my involvement in this particular discussion.

[Snow Creative]

The table features people are asking for are basic in just about every other decent page layout program. Please improve tables in Publisher!!

[Meliora spero]

Professionals simply must engage in the discussion - one which hobbyists are, quite understandably, less equipped to fully grasp. For this reason, it bears repeating. There are only two other paths forward: the first, and by far the more desirable, is to invest in better software - which, admittedly, is not in Serif’s best interest. The second is to muddle through with workarounds, limitations, and subpar output like a mere amateur - which, ultimately, does the client a disservice.

You must accept that those who come here to advocate for raising the standard of the software will do so with conviction—and not as a mere footnote. In the meantime, feel free to indulge in aesthetic design and creative enjoyment, while the rest of us fight to meet the demands of our profession.

It was Serif who lavishly slapped the term “professional” onto their marketing, and they must be held to account for it. If that is the standard they set, then it is by that standard we, as professionals, shall measure and judge.