Sayesh Ti Posted January 15 Posted January 15 (edited) I have got an almost blown-out picture in a backlit sunset color photo. Which is the most promising method to enhance the (very) faint contrasts in the almost black front part of the picture? I enclose two original scans, one of which with a revision tentative (... r1). Thanks ! Angela XII TIFF 1200 Kontr -49 Unsharp Mask, Hgrund entf high r1.tif Angela III TIFF.tif Edited January 15 by Sayesh Ti Quote
Ron P. Posted January 15 Posted January 15 @Sayesh Ti Welcome to the forums From what I see in those images, if you're trying to recover the shadows or for that matter, the highlights, Affinity Photo is not capable of that. I think those images are beyond being recovered. The photographer should have followed the rules, Expose for the Highlights, let the shadows fall where they may. If you are shooting very bright backlit images, you must make a decision. Do I want this to be a silhouette or not? If not, then you must try to light the shadows. Use a flash, or even a reflector bouncing light back into the dark areas. Blown out, means there's no data captured by the camera sensor, basically in the highlights. Are you wanting the image to be a silhouette of the person? IF so you can isolate them using a selection, then invert it so the background is selected. OR just select the background. From there, work with the various adjustments, like Levels, Highlight/Shadows, or Curves to darken the background area. Sayesh Ti 1 Quote Affinity Photo 2.5..; Affinity Designer 2.5..; Affinity Publisher 2.5..; Affinity2 Beta versions. Affinity Photo,Designer 1.10.6.1605 Win10 Home Version:21H2, Build: 19044.1766: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5820K CPU @ 3.30GHz, 3301 Mhz, 6 Core(s), 12 Logical Processor(s);32GB Ram, Nvidia GTX 3070, 3-Internal HDD (1 Crucial MX5000 1TB, 1-Crucial MX5000 500GB, 1-WD 1 TB), 4 External HDD
Sayesh Ti Posted January 15 Author Posted January 15 My gratitude, Ron P. Yep, that was what I also thought. Milking a stone is still magic. 😄 Ron P. 1 Quote
Ron P. Posted January 15 Posted January 15 For what it's worth, I tried using Luminosity Range Mask with Curves, Levels, adjustments. Isolated the person and pushed the shadows, as well as reducing the highlights as far as possible. There's just no data there. Sayesh Ti 1 Quote Affinity Photo 2.5..; Affinity Designer 2.5..; Affinity Publisher 2.5..; Affinity2 Beta versions. Affinity Photo,Designer 1.10.6.1605 Win10 Home Version:21H2, Build: 19044.1766: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5820K CPU @ 3.30GHz, 3301 Mhz, 6 Core(s), 12 Logical Processor(s);32GB Ram, Nvidia GTX 3070, 3-Internal HDD (1 Crucial MX5000 1TB, 1-Crucial MX5000 500GB, 1-WD 1 TB), 4 External HDD
Old Bruce Posted January 15 Posted January 15 18 minutes ago, Ron P. said: ... The photographer should have followed the rules, Expose for the Highlights, let the shadows fall where they may. ... <cranky old man mode ON> Back in the day... The mantra as (not actually) taught by Ansel Adams and Minor White was "Expose for the shadows and develop for the highlights." It served me quite well. <cranky old man mode is always ON> These new fangled electric cameras threw out most of the old rulebooks. Komatös, PaulEC, Sayesh Ti and 1 other 4 Quote Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.6 Affinity Designer 2.6.0 | Affinity Photo 2.6.0 | Affinity Publisher 2.6.0 | Beta versions as they appear. I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.
Ron P. Posted January 15 Posted January 15 Ok, I've never read or heard that method. If you expose for the shadows, that would cause highlights to be blown out, ie; not recoverable, IF the highlights were already at the brightest. So developing the highlights would be very difficult if not impossible. Most of the younger generation wouldn't have a clue on how to properly meter exposures, or how to use a meter, the one built in the camera or an external one. I know what's done me well is following what the meter tells me, and if I can not increase exposure without blowing out the highlights, I use some way to throw light into the shadows. Yes I know, and have seen many, read a lot about Ansel Adams. Sayesh Ti and Old Bruce 2 Quote Affinity Photo 2.5..; Affinity Designer 2.5..; Affinity Publisher 2.5..; Affinity2 Beta versions. Affinity Photo,Designer 1.10.6.1605 Win10 Home Version:21H2, Build: 19044.1766: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5820K CPU @ 3.30GHz, 3301 Mhz, 6 Core(s), 12 Logical Processor(s);32GB Ram, Nvidia GTX 3070, 3-Internal HDD (1 Crucial MX5000 1TB, 1-Crucial MX5000 500GB, 1-WD 1 TB), 4 External HDD
Old Bruce Posted January 15 Posted January 15 3 minutes ago, Ron P. said: I know what's done me well is following what the meter tells me, and if I can not increase exposure without blowing out the highlights, I use some way to throw light into the shadows. I wish more people would think to do this. As it is the shadows that we want to be brighter it doesn't take much to get them to a useful level. Ron P. and Sayesh Ti 2 Quote Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.6 Affinity Designer 2.6.0 | Affinity Photo 2.6.0 | Affinity Publisher 2.6.0 | Beta versions as they appear. I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.
NotMyFault Posted January 15 Posted January 15 The only option is to scan the original (positive or negative or film slide?) again, and manually adjust the brightness of the scan lightning. I was able to restore certain details, e.g. outblown highlights from negative film, by using a digital camera and long exposure. it is generally not possible to restore outblown highlight from regular scans of printed images or positive film. Sayesh Ti, Ron P. and Komatös 3 Quote Mac mini M1 A2348 | MBP M3 Windows 11 - AMD Ryzen 9 5900x - 32 GB RAM - Nvidia GTX 1080 LG34WK950U-W, calibrated to DCI-P3 with LG Calibration Studio / Spider 5 | Dell 27“ 4K iPad Air Gen 5 (2022) A2589 Special interest into procedural texture filter, edit alpha channel, RGB/16 and RGB/32 color formats, stacking, finding root causes for misbehaving files, finding creative solutions for unsolvable tasks, finding bugs in Apps. I use iPad screenshots and videos even in the Desktop section of the forum when I expect no relevant difference.
Ron P. Posted January 15 Posted January 15 9 minutes ago, Old Bruce said: I wish more people would think to do this. As it is the shadows that we want to be brighter it doesn't take much to get them to a useful level. Oh, and that doesn't include being able to watch your shutter speed, or aperture. I've been caught several times, focusing my attention on what the exposure meter is reading, and not seeing that my shutter speed is too slow to get the exposure so I get a sharp image. A good way to practice that is to shoot where those change rapidly, like shooting wildlife, birds in flight. Sayesh Ti 1 Quote Affinity Photo 2.5..; Affinity Designer 2.5..; Affinity Publisher 2.5..; Affinity2 Beta versions. Affinity Photo,Designer 1.10.6.1605 Win10 Home Version:21H2, Build: 19044.1766: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5820K CPU @ 3.30GHz, 3301 Mhz, 6 Core(s), 12 Logical Processor(s);32GB Ram, Nvidia GTX 3070, 3-Internal HDD (1 Crucial MX5000 1TB, 1-Crucial MX5000 500GB, 1-WD 1 TB), 4 External HDD
Ldina Posted January 15 Posted January 15 @Sayesh Ti I agree with all comments made above. Just thought I'd add one more idea (which doesn't always work, and is only worth it for important images). You can try adding textures, colors, and detail from other images, textured backgrounds, using effects (such as procedural textures), or perhaps cloning portions of your image, and placing them in those blownout areas. This is best done on a separate pixel layer, where you can reduce opacity, try different layer blend modes, use masks to blend the effects, etc. You're actually creating a "composite image". If done carefully, you can sometimes "reconstruct" an area of an image that is normally blown out and unrecoverable (i.e., has no detail). Sometimes it works well, and other times poorly, depending on the nature and detail or the portion of the image you are trying to "resurrect". Before attempting something like the above, it's always best if you can start with an original that isn't hopelessly blown out. FWIW. Old Bruce and Sayesh Ti 2 Quote 2024 MacBook Pro M4 Max, 48GB, 1TB SSD, Sequoia OS, Affinity Photo/Designer/Publisher v1 & v2, Adobe CS6 Extended, LightRoom v6, Blender, InkScape, Dell 30" Monitor, Canon PRO-100 Printer, i1 Spectrophotometer, i1Publish, Wacom Intuos 4 PTK-640 graphics tablet
thomaso Posted January 15 Posted January 15 2 hours ago, Ron P. said: For what it's worth, I tried using Luminosity Range Mask with Curves, Levels, adjustments. Isolated the person and pushed the shadows, as well as reducing the highlights as far as possible. There's just no data there. FWIW, too: Isn't it enough to reduce/increase the Exposure first to get a quick impression whether relevant data is generally available in an under-/overexposed image? (… and only proceed with adjustments, masks, etc. when more than just a few stripes in the pattern of the clothing appear in the person's silhouette)? Sayesh Ti 1 Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1
R C-R Posted January 15 Posted January 15 4 hours ago, Old Bruce said: Expose for the shadows and develop for the highlights. For what little it is worth, doing a web search on phrase that turns up a lot of interesting (& sometimes conflicting) hits about what it means. Sayesh Ti 1 Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.6 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 All 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7
Sayesh Ti Posted January 16 Author Posted January 16 (edited) My biiiig thanks ☺️ to everybody, for supplying some more hints for the next steps. Before this I tried hard on that unique hardcopy from 1974, over 150 tentatives 🤣🤣, beginning with my scanner settings (Unsharp mask on/off, Deraster on/off, Background removal, varying Luminosity, Contrast and Gamma, TIFF format, and then post-processing on the PC, playing with RGB, gamma, and the like. Best results until now with 1200 or 600 dpi, Unsharp mask on or off, deraster off, Gamma at max., Noiseware Noise reduction in some cases, contrast reduced by ~50, reduced saturation and slight increase in Red and Blue. But now I doubt if the sensor of my then Nikon FE2 [* correction: Konica Auto S3] captured more than I already obtained. I believe the original was a Kodachrome film. Just for fun I attach one of my better results till now. Next photos I'll take with two or three different settings, and flash is always an interesting option. But for this I'll need a time machine ... Thanks again folks for your recommendations. 🤗 Angela VIII TIFF 600 dpi, derast, Kontr red., r4.tif Edited January 16 by Sayesh Ti NotMyFault 1 Quote
NotMyFault Posted January 16 Posted January 16 Probably you have reached the limit set by your equipment. In general: deactivate all „auto improvements“ like sharpening, denoise, de-Raster etc. they could improve some defects, but always do collateral damage to the original data which you would need in this case. You need 16 bit color channel depth. Your scanner seems to only output 8 bit. A workaround would be HDR bracketing of multiple scans with different exposure a backlit scene like this does not allow to recover details. It is method to intentionally remove details at capture time. The only way to keep such details would be to either use a camera sensor (or film) offering more dynamic range, or do exposure bracketing during initial capture. By principle you can only recover those details conserved at initial capture. Despite being a tiff file which allows lossless compression, the actual files show typical compression artifacts of 8x8 blocks. To recover details you must get a uncompressed image. Otherwise any method to recover details will only amplify those compression artifacts. Another cause of this effects are scanners that actually have a physical resolution of e.g. 300 DPI and upscale the image to 600 or 1200 dpi. Background: I have scanned 1000s of printouts, negative and positive film slides by scanners and digital cameras, and used scan services of commercial print services like Fujifilm since about 199x where you could include a picture CD when ordering printed copies of film slides. My actual gear (Canon R6 II, RF-100 Macro lens, led light dish) gives a million times better quality than all older methods. but 50% of the film slides started to physically disintegrate. Some images from 1960 are still gorgeous and as detailed, colorful and sharp like an image taken today with the digital cameras. Unfortunately the quality of film and film cameras degraded in the 1970. Quote Mac mini M1 A2348 | MBP M3 Windows 11 - AMD Ryzen 9 5900x - 32 GB RAM - Nvidia GTX 1080 LG34WK950U-W, calibrated to DCI-P3 with LG Calibration Studio / Spider 5 | Dell 27“ 4K iPad Air Gen 5 (2022) A2589 Special interest into procedural texture filter, edit alpha channel, RGB/16 and RGB/32 color formats, stacking, finding root causes for misbehaving files, finding creative solutions for unsolvable tasks, finding bugs in Apps. I use iPad screenshots and videos even in the Desktop section of the forum when I expect no relevant difference.
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