Export magazine for commercial printer OR print to PDF at correct size

[JBA]

For context: I've been working with publications for about 20 years on the writer/editor side. I've been the point of contact with commercial printers for various projects over the years (annual reports, magazines, brochures, booklets, etc.) Now, I manage a small organization and find myself on the graphic-design side of the equation and managing the entire process, including writing, graphic design, and sending final files to the commercial printer.

We produce a 12-page quarterly magazine. So, I create full-bleed spreads that are then sent to a commercial printer. The print shop prints the spreads, slices the bleeds, folds, and binds the pages. The spreads are printed on 11x17" pages, double sided. I've been using MS Publisher for the last five years but purchased Affinity a few months ago because I wanted a more powerful graphic-design program that didn't have the steep learning curve of InDesign. And Affinity really does accomplish that.

But I'm struggling to comprehend why I can't export accurately for the printer. When working in MS Publisher or Adobe InDesign, you start by creating your spreads (shown below in MS Publisher.)

 

After creating, you can export as a PDF into a "booklet," and it creates the ordered pages exactly as the printer needs with the cover/back cover on the same page, followed by pages 2 and 11, etc. shown below as a PDF.

This allows the printer to print the pages front/back and then fold and bind the final document in the correct order. In searching the forums, I've already figured out that Affinity Publisher does not support truly "exporting" spreads for commercial printing. (I still haven't figured out why, though. This is common in graphic design when using a commercial printer--I've been sending magazines and booklets to printers for the last 20 years this way.)

So that leaves me trying to use the workaround "print to PDF" feature (which doesn't embed fonts btw and is causing some image quality issues). So I'm laying out the document using spreads (shown below in Affinity Publisher).

Only now, I'm using the "Print to PDF" feature to "export" the document correctly for the commercial printer.

From here, I can "export" the PDF in booklet form using this workaround. But, there's still a problem. I cannot for the life of me make this document include the bleeds. Below you'll see that I have selected "include bleeds."

And I am getting the spreads in the correct page order for print.

 

But what results is a document size of 11x17 (shown below under "page size") instead of 11.25 x 17.25, which is what I need to send to the printer so that I'll get the full bleed as designed.

 

When I try to simply change the document dimensions to include the bleed, I get an 8.5 x 11 document that cuts off the design entirely. I've tried using 17.25 x 11.25 and I've tried using 11.25 x 17.25 and the result is the same.

Resulting PDF with a document size of 11 x 8.5:

I'm hoping that I just missed it in the forums. Is there a way to export spreads for the commercial printer in a "booklet" pagination layout? If not, how can I "print to PDF" and retain the bleed? Please help ... this has already cause me hours of consternation!

And before someone suggests it, I've already tried changing my document size to 17.25 x 11.25 without bleeds. It still simply refuses to export/print the full size document.

Thanks for the help!

[loukash]

On 12/17/2024 at 12:56 AM, JBA said:

Is there a way to export spreads for the commercial printer in a "booklet" pagination layout?

The question is:
Why would a "commercial printer" ever want to recieve imposed layouts from their clients?
At least in Europe, every commercial printer that I've worked with in the past, say, 25 years, urged me not to attempt imposition myself…

Recommended reading, posted just earlier this week:

[JBA]

I'll certainly read the forum you sent and hope to gain usable information. To answer your question: It doesn't matter why the printer wants me to send it that way. It only matters that I get my magazine printed properly. And it seems like many print shops are asking for this just based on the many times I've seen the question pop up in forums. Again, I've worked with many print shops in many cities, and this is always what has been requested of our graphic designers. Maybe it just works differently where I live.

[loukash]

Given that professional imposition software usually costs the multiple amount of all Affinity apps together, I'm not necessarily shocked that this feature isn't included in Publisher (yet).

Nevertheless, if I were required to provide imposed layout to a printshop, I would simply reshuffle all pages to the corresponding order (16–1, 2–15, 14–3 etc.).
That can be done pretty easily and non-destructively e.g. by setting up a secondary document and placing the pages from the original layout in the imposed sequence.

A standard 16-page A4 brochure layout done as usual:

 

^ The above document pages placed into a new document with 8 landscape pages A3 in the imposed sequence:

 

The above exported as PDF/X-4 if that's what the printhouse wants:

This manual imposition took me about 10 minutes, including the screenshots and typing this post. 
No additional tools or features required. 

[JBA]

I agree. That's pretty much the solution I landed on. Thanks!

[loukash]

For what it's worth, I just checked the current InDesign help files for imposition options. (I stopped giving my money to Adobe with CS5.5, so I'm not necessarily up to date with all the recent features.)
Apart from imposed booklet printing (much like in Publisher), apparently there are none such options for PDF export either.
Just so you know…  

[Katherine_Derbyshire]

I am very new, both to Publisher and desktop publishing generally. Please be patient. 

I've got sort of the opposite problem. I'm working with a third-party template that creates quarter-sheet booklets (8 pages) on a standard small office laser. The template is pre-imposed so that everything comes out in the right place if you print double-sided and cut the page in half. Nifty. 

Except that I realized fairly late in the game that I would also like to have a PDF version that reads in "normal" order for people using screens. So I need to "de-impose" the pages. 

The trick upthread won't work, as the eight component "pages" are defined as frames within two physical sheets. I've attached the PDF that i'm starting with. Suggestions welcome!

One Sheet Qtr Size Template.pdf

[Catshill]

3 hours ago, Katherine_Derbyshire said:

I am very new, both to Publisher and desktop publishing generally. Please be patient. 

I've got sort of the opposite problem. I'm working with a third-party template that creates quarter-sheet booklets (8 pages) on a standard small office laser. The template is pre-imposed so that everything comes out in the right place if you print double-sided and cut the page in half. Nifty. 

Except that I realized fairly late in the game that I would also like to have a PDF version that reads in "normal" order for people using screens. So I need to "de-impose" the pages. 

The trick upthread won't work, as the eight component "pages" are defined as frames within two physical sheets. I've attached the PDF that i'm starting with. Suggestions welcome!

One Sheet Qtr Size Template.pdf 45.66 kB · 0 downloads

In your situation I would arrange the pages sequentially and then export pages not spreads as a pdf. If you are uploading to Wordpress, there are a number of nifty plugins that create a flippable book.

[Katherine_Derbyshire]

Well yes, but the question is how to accomplish that. 

Also, for design reasons I would like the ability to create two-page spreads, for instance for wide-format images. 

To be clear, in the end I want to have both an imposed/printable and a de-imposed/readable version. 

 

Edited December 29, 2024 by Katherine_Derbyshire
Further elaboration.

[loukash]

17 hours ago, Katherine_Derbyshire said:

in the end I want to have both an imposed/printable and a de-imposed/readable version.

You can use my aforementioned workflow by placing your imposed Publisher spreads into a separate "de-imposed" Publisher document, simply just the other way around.

[Katherine_Derbyshire]

Ah, now I've got it. Thanks all!