Iphone 16 pro RAW and Affinity Photo 2.5.7 on OS X BigSur

[patrickP]

I have 7 day to test Affinity Photo 2, and Apple iphone 16 Pro RAW are opened totally white.
Can't figure why this happened. Need help.

IMG_5170.DNG

[Hangman]

Hi @patrickP and welcome to the forums,

If totally white the issue may be with BigSur though I'm unsure why...

When opened in 2.5.7 on Sonoma, this is the initial result when the Tone Curve is set to Take no Action under the Develop Assistant Settings before making any adjustments.

[carl123]

I can't open the file on Windows 11 at all

Either using the release version or the beta of APhoto

 

[patrickP]

Thanks Hangman. This helps !

I’m using Big Sur… and I am not planning to buy a new mac to run Somona, so I will find another solution/Software.

Regards

Edited December 16, 2024 by patrickP

[Hangman]

21 minutes ago, carl123 said:

I can't open the file on Windows 11 at all

Either using the release version or the beta of APhoto

The iPhone 16 Pro isn't currently on the list of supported cameras which is likely the issue...

[patrickP]

Is there a chance that Affinity fixes this topic in OSX BigSur ?

Edited December 17, 2024 by patrickP

[patrickP]

Hi,
More information.
On MacOS BigSur (11.7.10), Photo 2.5.7 opens correctly ProRAW Max (JPEG Lossless).
But not the JPEG XL formats (Lossy and Lossless). They are opened totally white. Not information at all.

[Hangman]

Hi @patrickP,

Can you upload a couple of JPEG XL formats (Lossy and Lossless) sample files...

Do the same files open in Apple Preview?

[patrickP]

Hi  Hangman, I will send you the informations and files next week.

[Hangman]

Hi @patrickP,

That's no problem at all... have a great Christmas break... 🎅🎄

[Ldina]

@patrickP My experience is the same as @Hangman. Your file opens fine for me and looks exactly the same. (I'm on a Mac M4 running Sequoia).

Here is my experience so far with iPhone 16 DNG images. 

If I set DNG compression to JPEG Lossless in my iPhone, the images open fine in AP (currently on v2.5.7). I have the option to send the developed image to Photo as a Pixel Layer, Raw Layer (Linked or Embedded). 

If I set my iPhone camera to use JPEG-XL compression (Lossless or Lossy), the images open fine, but I lose the ability to use the RAW Layer (Linked or Embedded) option. I can only send a Pixel Layer to Photo. 

I have found that some things differ, depending on whether you open the file from Apple Photos (Edit With), or open the file from within Affinity (File > Open). Apple sometimes sends different file formats, bit depths and color spaces into AP if launching from the Apple Photos App. The cleanest hit I have found so far is to Export Original DNG from Apple Photos to an external folder, then use File > Open from Affinity. What I don't like, is that I have large, duplicate DNG files (one in Apple Photos, and one in a separate folder). And if I used JPEG-XL compression, my edited AP file is also huge since it contains a full sized pixel layer instead of a link to the DNG file. I think a lot of this is what Apple is doing behind the scenes, which isn't all that well documented. 

HEIC files (non-RAW iPhone 16 files) are finicky with Affinity (which seems to sometimes choke on HEIC, and will not Save to HEIC). HEIC files open if launched from within Apple Photos (which converts them to JPG, TIFF, etc, on the fly), but bit depth and color spaces seem to vary when it arrives in AP. That is probably Apple's doing. 

So for now, I'm using Apple Photos for all editing of iPhone 16 images (DNG and HEIC). If they need something special that can't be done in the Apple Editor, I'll bring them into Affinity. I use AP for editing all my DSLR, Scans and other images, but things seem a bit confusing and difficult with iPhone images at this point. I'm open to suggestions if anyone has found better workflows because I'd like a seamless integration and to use AP for all my edits. 

[patrickP]

Hi @Hangman

Here are the informations and sample files.

Config : MacOS BigSur (11.7.10). Pictures from iphone 16 pro.

Apple Preview opens DNG with JPEG Lossless (same as for HEIC images).
Apple Preview does NOT open  DNG with JPEG XL formats (Lossless and Lossy).

Here is a PrintScreen of ApplePreview on the left, and the Finder on the right.
The selected picture is a DNG with JPEG lossless.

 

Below Apple Preview of a DNG with JPEG XL lossless compression.

 

I attach some DNG samples. See filenames for XL Lossless and XL Lossy.
 

 

@Ldina Thanks for the information. Very interesting.

I use Capture One Pro for RAW development then, if needed, I export a TIFF file, and open it from Affinity Photo.
I never use Apple Photos for development. I prefer Capture One pro.

IMG_5218-JPEG XL Lossless.DNG IMG_5221-JPEG XL Lossless.DNG IMG_5215-JPEG XL Lossy.DNG IMG_5229-JPEG XL Lossy.DNG

[Ldina]

@patrickP All four iPhone 16 DNG files open fine in Affinity Develop Persona. They can only be sent to Photo as pixel layers (at present, only DNG standard JPEG Lossless compression allows me to choose RAW Layer Linked or Embedded). I'm sure Capture One Pro does a great job. 

For others who might stumble upon this thread, I also discovered that if you make any edits to an iPhone 16 DNG file using Apple Photos, it will affect how it opens in AP. Using File > Open on an UNedited iPhone DNG file opens it in the Develop Persona as a RAW file (as expected). If that same DNG file was previously edited in Apple Photos, it opens as a JPEG file directly into AP. 

Pretty pictures. Just curious where they were taken?

[patrickP]

@Ldina 

Thanks. The images where taken at this place in France.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/EgcbEGDEYu31qXAW7

C1 pro does a really great job. I use an old version, (v13, current version is v16) for my Canon DSLR CR2 files. It can process DNG with JPEG lossless, but not with JPEG XL. I have not yet upgrade to the latest version because I do not need it.
The iphone is not my main camera, it replace my every day pocket camera and a phone at the same time. I will use the DNG only in difficult lights/scenes, otherwise HEIC is sufficient for web purposes.

[Ldina]

@patrickP Thanks...beautiful area. 

Same here...Canon DSLR most of the time, iPhone 16 when I don't have my DSLR with me. I can get good results with Affinity Develop Persona, with final edits in Photo, but it's more work and fiddling around to get there. 

It will be interesting when HDR becomes more mainstream and HDR monitors are commonplace. Right now, HDR is a moving target and only semi-defined...competing file formats, browser support, etc. HDR will have little or no effect on printed output, but it will dramatically alter content posted online once things begin to stabilize (and standardize...we hope). I anticipate a lot of changes ahead. 

[patrickP]

@Ldina
RAW processors from different brands do not use same algorithm for interpretation of the RAW data.
So you can not expect Affinity Photo to act as LightRoom and Photoshop that use same CameraRaw algorithm.

C1 pro, Adobe Camera RAW, Affinity, DXO, etc... are all different.
A RAW image with no adjustment at all, will not show the same result depending on the RAW interpretation.
For me, JPEG lossless is not a RAW, it's already an interpretation of the RAW capture.

Concerning HDRs, Standardization, of the XL format, the screens, and good calibration... We will see.

[Ldina]

1 hour ago, patrickP said:

For me, JPEG lossless is not a RAW, it's already an interpretation of the RAW capture.

Just for clarification, I was referring to JPEG Lossless and JPEG-XL Lossless as the compression methods used to compress and save RAW DNG files. Most* of those files are RAW and preserve all the original RAW sensor information (though some metadata from the OEM RAW file is discarded, such as dust delete data, picture styles, etc). JPEG-XL Lossy Compression of DNG files does discard some RAW data but results in greatly reduced file sizes, and supposedly, minimal loss of quality. The recent DNG v1.7 Spec added JPEG-XL compression methods, in addition to the original JPEG Lossless compression method. DNG also provides for additional file formats, which don't need to be RAW, such as JPEG Previews, Fovean Linear RAW files, etc.

The above DNG files are different from files processed in PS, LR, AP, Gimp and other programs, then exported as bitmap files to JPEG or JPEG-XL format. Those are not RAW files, and as you mentioned, have already been interpreted, rasterized and converted into pixel data.

*Note: I'm not sure about Apple iPhone DNG files, which are not well documented. Many iPhone Pro images use special algorithms to capture and blend multiple bracketed exposures, which are then saved as "RAW files" in DNG format, using one of the three approved JPEG compression methods. Are those truly RAW? Is the bracketed and merged data written in conventional RAW format in the same way as a Nikon NEF or Canon CR2 file that has been converted to DNG? I don't know. Perhaps, since you can open them in a RAW processor and perform many of the standard RAW operations (e.g., WB using Temp/Tint, etc). But they seem to be different from a conventional DSLR RAW image that has been converted to DNG. Hopefully, we will learn more in time. 

I think HDR standardization will come eventually, but it may be a long time coming.