Book feature

[Welsbach]

This is how I know the book feature from InDesign: I put each chapter in a separate file and then add them to a book in the desired order. I can specify that each chapter starts on the right-hand page (i.e. with an odd number of pages). If necessary, InDesign adds individual blank pages between the chapters to ensure this.

Is this also possible with Publisher? My current attempts lead to the fact that sometimes one, sometimes three empty pages are inserted, sometimes none, so that suddenly the odd page numbers are on the left-hand side. Is there any way to set this so that it works as expected or do I have to correct the page numbering manually each time?

Another question: Can someone explain (preferably in German) what the - very original sounding - word "Streunerseiten" means? I haven't come across it before and the help file doesn't explain it. Maybe it's because I don't understand that the settings are wrong for me.

 

[Oufti]

50 minutes ago, Welsbach said:

Can someone explain (preferably in German) what the - very original sounding - word "Streunerseiten" means? I haven't come across it before and the help file doesn't explain it.

There is at least this explanation: 

https://affinity.help/publisher2/de.lproj/pages/Advanced/creatingBooks.html

[Pšenda]

53 minutes ago, Welsbach said:

Is this also possible with Publisher?

I recommend taking a look at Mike's manual:

 

If you can't find the information you need there, @MikeTO will be happy to advise you or edit/add to the description in his manual.

[MikeTO]

Streunerseiten is Stray Pages in English and is the feature that pads and merge pages between chapters.

You'll find a very detailed explanation of the Books feature in my English manual, which combined with the German online help should provide enough assistance. I recommend reading the section on the Books feature in my manual though because the feature has some limitations and isn't suitable for every type of book. There are also limitations with syncing master pages for which I've provided guidance.

Also, be warned that Publisher's Books feature is not intended for collaboration - you shouldn't send chapters to others for editing. There are also some known bugs with Books that make it a bit harder to use.

Finally, just because you needed to use the Books in InDesign doesn't mean you will need to use it in Publisher. IMO, Publisher is able to handle large, complex documents as single files quite easily. If you don't need to split the book into chapters, don't do it.

[Welsbach]

I don't find it at all convenient to process a book of 500 or 1000 pages in one file, if only because it makes it much more difficult to find a particular place. Apart from that, I don't think that simply not using a certain function of a programme is a solution to the difficulty of using it. It would be better if it worked the way it was intended and promised.

But at least I've realised that my impression is not wrong: the book function is poorly (not to say sloppily) implemented. Too bad, but at least now I know.

 

[MikeTO]

5 minutes ago, Welsbach said:

I don't find it at all convenient to process a book of 500 or 1000 pages in one file, if only because it makes it much more difficult to find a particular place. Apart from that, I don't think that simply not using a certain function of a programme is a solution to the difficulty of using it. It would be better if it worked the way it was intended and promised.

But at least I've realised that my impression is not wrong: the book function is poorly (not to say sloppily) implemented. Too bad, but at least now I know.

Aside from a couple of serious bugs that should finally be fixed in the upcoming version 2.6, the Books feature mostly works as it was intended. But that doesn't mean it does all of the same things as the same feature you're used to in InDesign. You cannot use it for collaboration. You cannot use it for books in which chapters can start on the left side of a spread. You should not use it unless you have already finalized your template because changing master pages after creating the chapters will lead to master page proliferation. And some things such as indexing are more tedious for a Book than a single document.

I wish Publisher's Pages panel had Sections integrated into it so that I could use them for the "chapters" in my very long books created as single documents. This would allow me to collapse all the sections except the one I'm working on. In the meantime, the best option to find your place in a long document is the Find & Replace panel. I often use temporary markers such as ** to mark my spot so I can return to them easily without having to type specific words that might be on multiple pages. You can also use hidden text frames with codes to allow you to jump to those positions. 

[Welsbach]

I've had some time to deal with the Publisher again and have failed again at the same point: the book feature. I still don't understand how the numbering is intended or what I have to do to achieve a meaningful result.

I have combined several chapters into a book and now find the following situation: If a chapter ends on an odd page (i.e. on the right), the following chapter also begins on an odd page, as desired. However, one page is then missing. So: Chapter 2 ends on p. 85, chapter 2 begins on p. 87, page 86 is missing.

Does this mean that I have to search through the whole book to find where chapters end on the right-hand page and add a blank page at each of these points? I understood the meaning of this function to be that these pages are automatically added where they are needed. It also seems to me that this is what your manual says:

The Books panel's menu offers two Stray Pages commands:

- Merge Where Possible: If a chapter ends on a left page and the following chapter starts on a right page this command will merge those two stray pages into a single spread when printing or exporting the Book.

- Pad: If a chapter ends on a right page and the following chapter starts on a right page this command will add a blank page to maintain the facing pages.

Either I misunderstand the explanation or it doesn't work like this. How do you ensure that no pages are missing?

[MikeTO]

8 hours ago, Welsbach said:

I have combined several chapters into a book and now find the following situation: If a chapter ends on an odd page (i.e. on the right), the following chapter also begins on an odd page, as desired. However, one page is then missing. So: Chapter 2 ends on p. 85, chapter 2 begins on p. 87, page 86 is missing.

Does this mean that I have to search through the whole book to find where chapters end on the right-hand page and add a blank page at each of these points? I understood the meaning of this function to be that these pages are automatically added where they are needed. It also seems to me that this is what your manual says:

No, you don't have to find which chapters end on right pages. The Pad feature will insert a blank page between the chapters in this scenario. Is this not working for you? If so, could you share a screenshot of the relevant portion of Pages panel for the end of one chapter and start of the next, and confirm that Stray Pages > Merge Where Possible and Pad are both selected?

Good luck

[Welsbach]

Here is the screenshot. As you can see, pages 234 and 402 are missing, and they really are missing. When I export, they are simply not there and the result is unusable. If I insert the required pages manually, everything is fine. But then I ask myself why this option exists.

[Welsbach]

Hier ist ein weiteres Bildschirmfoto, nachdem ich einige Ä nderungen vorgenommen haben. Man sieht: Es funktioniert nicht. Nicht nur entstehen Lücken, in der Seitenzählung, es geschieht auch, dass die Kapitel mal auf der linken, mal auf der rechten Seite anfangen, was, wenn man Ihrem Handbuch glaubt, gar nicht möglich ist. Jedenfalls ist das Ergebnis unbgrauchbar, was sich nur verhindern lässt, wenn man die benötigten Seiten manuell einfügt. Es sei denn, es gibt irgendeinen geheimen Trick, der mir noch nicht offenbart wurde.

[Welsbach]

And one last screenshot. As you can see, pages 85, 86, 160, 242, 330 and 416 are now missing. The numbering is now correct, but the necessary pages are not inserted. Unless you do this manually. But is that the point of these options?

[Alfred]

3 hours ago, Welsbach said:

As you can see, pages 85, 86, 160, 242, 330 and 416 are now missing.

Pages 11 and 12 are missing, too.

[Welsbach]

That's right! I overlooked that. But my list was enough to show that it simply doesn't work...

It seems that this feature, which was introduced a long time ago with a lot of self-congratulation from the company, has several serious bugs that no one has addressed since.

[Oufti]

3 hours ago, Welsbach said:

Es sei denn, es gibt irgendeinen geheimen Trick, der mir noch nicht offenbart wurde.

 

Are you sure you have ticked the Stray Pages > Pad (=Pages dispersées > Remplir) option in the Books panel menu (its 'hamburger' ꠵ menu)? By default I don't think it is.

Quote from @MikeTO's book:

16 hours ago, Welsbach said:

The Books panel's menu offers two Stray Pages commands:

- Merge Where Possible: If a chapter ends on a left page and the following chapter starts on a right page this command will merge those two stray pages into a single spread when printing or exporting the Book.

- Pad: If a chapter ends on a right page and the following chapter starts on a right page this command will add a blank page to maintain the facing pages.

[Welsbach]

Just now, Oufti said:

Are you sure you have ticked the Stray Pages > Pad (=Pages dispersées > Remplir) option in the Books panel menu (its 'hamburger' ꠵ menu)? By default I don't think it is.

Quote from @MikeTO's book:

 

Yes, I am completely sure. I have tried all the combinations that are possible. If I select "Pad", the result is that the page numbers are set as if blank pages had been added. But no blank pages are added. I have to do this manually. So the option obviously makes no sense, because I can add blank pages manually without it.

Incidentally, this is a problem that is as old as this feature in the programme. I check from time to time to see if anything has changed. And the result is always the same: it doesn't work.

[Bound by Beans]

4 hours ago, Welsbach said:

That's right! I overlooked that. But my list was enough to show that it simply doesn't work...

It seems that this feature, which was introduced a long time ago with a lot of self-congratulation from the company, has several serious bugs that no one has addressed since.

I’ve had similar and other issues with the book feature which forced me to work in single files... I can definitely relate to what you’re describing...

Who is the arrogant guy laughing at your serious issues? That is unsympathetic

[Alfred]

8 minutes ago, Bound by Beans said:

Who is the arrogant guy laughing at your serious issues?

@Westerwälder often reacts to posts with a  but without any comment about the reason for that reaction. It’s only very occasionally obvious why anyone would think the posts in question are laughable.

[Welsbach]

44 minutes ago, Bound by Beans said:

I’ve had similar and other issues with the book feature which forced me to work in single files...

Yes, that is a solution, but not one that is practical for files with 500-700 pages. I also think that if a programme has a feature, especially one that was introduced with so much marketing bluster, it can't be a mistake to expect it to work. Maybe I'm too naïve, but it seems to me that I have a certain right, since I paid for the programme (and not just once). But it doesn't help, maybe the day will come when Affinity decides to finalise the program, maybe not - you can only wait and see. Fortunately, there is an alternative - not perfect either, but much more thorough and professional.

[MikeTO]

What you've shown in the Books panel is normal - it will show a one-page gap between chapters if a chapter ends with a right page and the next chapter starts on the right, and if Stray Pages > Pad is selected.

When I export a Book with All Chapters (as spreads), it works correctly and pads the document with a blank page as shown on the left.

But when I export a Book with All Chapters As Pages, the padded page is not in the PDF. It's been a long time since I tried this myself so I can't swear how it worked when the feature was first introduced, but it should be adding a blank page.

 

[MikeTO]

4 minutes ago, Welsbach said:

Yes, that is a solution, but not one that is practical for files with 500-700 pages.

It actually is practical, all my books are single files.

Instead of dividing the book into chapter files, create one story per chapter in the single document. As long as each chapter is its own story, Affinity can handle extremely long and complex books with many high resolution photos even on a Mac with 16GB of memory.

Yes, the Books feature should be able to handle anything but it's so much easier to work with a single file.

[Welsbach]

15 minutes ago, MikeTO said:

But when I export a Book with All Chapters As Pages, the padded page is not in the PDF.

I would say that these gaps in the book panel are an error, even if the gaps were filled in during export. Unfortunately, this is not the case. The pages that are not displayed are also not present in the PDF file. This results in a completely unusable file.

 

[Welsbach]

13 minutes ago, MikeTO said:

Affinity can handle extremely long and complex books with many high resolution photos even on a Mac with 16GB of memory.

Yes, the Books feature should be able to handle anything but it's so much easier to work with a single file.

It's great that Affinity can handle large files. The only problem is: I can't. Or rather: I don't want to work with such confusing files because navigating through several hundred pages is quite inconvenient. The book feature was invented precisely to simplify the handling of large amounts of text. And if it's already there, it's not good advice not to use it. I don't understand the point of a function that doesn't work.

(Why shouldn't it work? InDesign can do it too. And without any problems. It simply works exactly as you would expect. And that was the case from the very first moment this function was introduced. If the Affinity people wanted to, the problem could have been solved long ago. I don't understand why they don't want to, or, on the other hand, why they don't rather leave out a function that they apparently consider so superfluous that they implement it sloppily. But that's probably one of the many mysteries of the digital world).

Never mind. I know again: it still doesn't work. In the meantime, I assume that it will never work. That's a shame really. Publisher could be a good thing if the work was done more thoroughly and there weren't so many unfinished projects.