New Document Layer

[MaryLou]

I was just working my way through a MAC video tutorial and the creator said that when you create a new document, a new layer is automatically created.  In the Win beta, this does not happen.  New document, no layers until you do it yourself.

 

In every other program I've ever used, a new layer was auto created with a new document. Was this intentional to NOT do that in AD?

 

 

[GDPR-365024]

Hi MaryLou - you don't have to create a layer, that is your first layer in a new document. It's created automatically when, with a tool selected (ie pen, text, rectangle etc), you click in the new document.

[MaryLou]

That is not what's happening.  When I start a new document, and I select the pen or pencil tool, no new layer is created.   If I draw an oval, the layer palette shows Ellipse.   If I add a rectangle to my document, an entry is added that says Rectangle but there is no layer created. 

 

In DrawPlus and any other graphic program I've used, a new layer is automatically created when you open a new document. It does that in the MAC version too but not in the beta version.

 

You can see in my attachment, there is no layer.  I came across this because several people in my group are doing one of the MAC tuts and she says clearly that a new layer is created when you open a new document. Her screen shows a blank document with a layer. Then, when you draw something it goes into that layer.  That is not happening in the beta.

[GDPR-365024]

They look like layers to me however I understand what you're saying and agree with you re other graphic programs.

 

I just thought this is the way AD goes about creating the first layer of a new document ...because of the vector and pixel personas?  

 

Perhaps this is a Windows bug?

[GDPR-365024]

Just looked at a Mac tut on creating a new document and yes 'Layer1' is automatically created when the new document opens.

[Mark Ingram]

Hi, this used to be the case, but it was changed on the macOS version a few months ago.

[Alfred]

What was the rationale behind this change? :unsure:

[MaryLou]

It seems like another awkward and unnecessary step.  So now, it's going to take four clicks just to start working on a new document. 

 

1.  Click  File

2.  Click New

3.  Click OK

4.  Click New Layer

 

And yes, I am familiar with  CTRL+N but I don't use keyboard commands. For me, that takes two hands and it still ends up 3 steps before you can start drawing. 

 

It seems like a few steps backward.  It was so much nicer when you could click on a little icon and up popped your new document with a new layer. ONE click and you're ready to go.

 

Not so sure this is progress.  I would like to know the thinking behind it too.

[Ken Cope]

Yes, makes that 3 of us.

 

Illustrator (CS2, I know it's old!) opens with a new layer already selected.

 

Inkscape seems to have options of whether Layers are shown or hidden but, like AD at the moment with it's not having a layer added as default, seems a bit clunky, amateur and random.

 

I like to use Layers to keep control over my drawings (crucial for complex drawings), and not having one to start with as part of the document means that I have to remember one more option to check before I can begin drawing. As MaryLou says, it's like a few steps backward. As a note, in the vast majority of the samples supplied, the artists have used layers.

[Alfred]

As a note, in the vast majority of the samples supplied, the artists have used layers.

 

In all of the samples, and every other drawing, there is at least one layer: you wouldn't start without a blank layer unless you were pasting the contents of the clipboard as a new layer. This reminds me of the way PhotoPlus has always differed from the other 'Plus' applications, presumably on the assumption that the majority of its users want to retouch existing images instead of starting with a blank canvas to paint on.

[Ken Cope]

Yes, it seems odd to be able to draw on no layer (in reality it is a layer but not named as one), the objects then just mount up in a single 'layer' and become unruly even when a new layer is added. It creates a mess of the Layers tab.

[MaryLou]

The folks at my forum have been doing the MAC tutorials which, of course, work just fine with the AD Beta. We even used those tutorials to help us learn to use DrawPlus and in every single case, when we opened a new document, it automatically created Layer 1.

 

When attempting to do this tutorial,  Understanding the Layers Panel

some were having problems because they didn't realize that in AD beta, there was no Layer 1. In trying to help those having a problem, I went back to that tutorial several times and listened very carefully to what she was saying.  When she said that "a new layer is created when you open a new document", that's when I first realized that isn't what happened. I didn't have a layer there... just the squares I created.

 

This is why I posted my question - to find out if this was a bug or if it is intentional.  If it's intentional, I think it's a bad move.

[Ken Cope]

I agree, it's a very bad move.

[GDPR-365024]

It seems like another awkward and unnecessary step.  So now, it's going to take four clicks just to start working on a new document. 

 

1.  Click  File

2.  Click New

3.  Click OK

4.  Click New Layer

 

 

 

Or...

 

1. Ctrl + N

2. Change document settings if required

3. Press enter on keyboard

4. Select tool, click in document and start creating...

 

Innovative   ;)   

[MaryLou]

But... but... you left out Create New Layer!  Otherwise, everything automatically goes into the same "bucket".  Clicking in the document does not create the layer for you.

[GDPR-365024]

I am being a bit tongue in cheek, I should have mentioned that   :)  and yes, each to their own regarding keyboard shortcuts.

 

The way I see it there is a layer(s) created. It's just that it's not called layer, its name identifies with what's just being created.

 

With my limited understanding of AD... one can create a layer and with it selected (ie active) objects created become 'children' of the layer (if 'child' is the correct terminology). On the other hand if the initial layer is not created then each object created is on a different 'object' layer which can then be grouped as required into layers.

 

I assume the AD devs have coded this way for a reason. Perhaps because of the vector/pixel personas?

 

I can understand you and others who prefer to start a new document with a layer already created. I prefer the current way because, as mentioned by Alfred, an existing document (or place image) can be brought into the app and therefore no need for an initial layer.  

[MaryLou]

When you start a new document, and you draw a few objects, they go into the layer area but they are not on the first layer. Each object is separate.  If I am making, for example, a cartoon with ears, face, head, eyes, nose, mouth, arms, legs, etc,  they are all showing in the layers tab but each one is its own layer. I want all of the facial features to be in a single layer. The only way I can do that is to create layer 1, then select the individual face parts and drag them into layer 1. 

 

When starting a new document and the first layer is already created, the face parts will automatically go into layer 1.  At that point, I can create a second layer for the body parts.  I just find it awkward to have all these extra steps before one can start doing anything else. 

 

Not only that, it renders a lot of the existing tutorials as useless for new users because they start with the layer already created. 

 

Opening an existing document would not be the same as creating a new document and therefore the layer would not be created.  Having a layer present when placing an image doesn't have any effect on the image at all. 

[GDPR-365024]

Yeah, as mentioned I can understand why you'd want the initial layer created with a new document - you've explained it quite clearly.

 

Equally there's no hardship in selecting the object layers (shift click if all of them) then right click - Group (or ctrl + G). For a new document I usually have the same document setup so...  Ctrl + N then press enter (less than 5 seconds), select a tool and start creating.

 

There's a lot going on in the layers panel that's not so obvious - I recall reading a thread with one of the mods or devs explaining nesting, clipping, child layers and such like.  

 

Hopefully one of the devs or mods will respond in depth.

[MaryLou]

Ctrl+N is out because I have to remove my hand from the mouse and find the keys which is yet another unnecessary move. I have small hands and cannot reach both keys with one hand.  So, I have to use the mouse for everything. 

 

There is a tutorial (the one I posted above) that covers the nesting, child, and other layers. You may want to give it a try.  If you are using AD, make a layer before you start though. It will save you a lot of frustration. :)

[Seneca]

Sorry, but I'm not sure whether I understand your problem.

 

I much prefer the way the beta works now. The program starts out without any layers because there is nothing drawn yet.

As soon as you start using the program each tool will automatically create a new layer. 

So no need to create an empty layer.

 

If later you want to organise your layers in a different way or merge them you are free to do so using either Grouping, or merging, etc.

 

Regards

[Ken Cope]

Sorry, but I'm not sure whether I understand your problem.

 

I much prefer the way the beta works now. The program starts out without any layers because there is nothing drawn yet.

As soon as you start using the program each tool will automatically create a new layer. 

So no need to create an empty layer.

 

If later you want to organise your layers in a different way or merge them you are free to do so using either Grouping, or merging, etc.

 

Regards

Not quite, if AD started with a layer already in place then all drawing will go into this layer (as it does now but without a layer being created) until the user decides to create a second layer to populate with drawing. It makes things much easier to manage in the long run and is one less thing to think about when starting the app. Why does the professional artist Kevin House produce a complex drawing such as the sample 'High Flyer' using a myriad of layers? Because it makes drawing a complex scene much easier to manage. I doubt if it could be drawn easily without layers.

[dominik]

 

until the user decides

 

To me this sounds like having an option in the general settings. That way each user could configure AD the way how she/he prefers to work.

 

d.

[Mark Ingram]

Why do you need a "Layer 1" on your page? It doesn't add anything that you don't already get by adding objects directly to the document.

[BobsDaubs]

Why do you need a "Layer 1" on your page? It doesn't add anything that you don't already get by adding objects directly to the document.

 

Why was a "layer 1" automatically created at document startup when the program was first introduced and then taken out of the program?

[Seneca]

Why was a "layer 1" automatically created at document startup when the program was first introduced and then taken out of the program?

 

Because it makes more sense not to have it until you start drawing and the program will create one for you automatically.