Wrong colors in Affinity Designer (+ Photo), does anyone have any suggestion?

[Aeon Soul]

The preview in my Affinity Designer (as well as Photo) has muted colors compared to the actual image.

See attachment, Affinity is left, Photoshop is right, when I export the image from Affinity the colors are ok and their values are ok, it's just the preview within the program that's wrong.

It's driving me mad because I need to create palettes for my patterns and I had to export each layer separately, load them in photosop as masks, choose appropriate colors and transfer the values to designer, it's a huge waste of time I cannot afford.

I understand the problem is on my end, but I tried everything I found online to helps solve this and nothing worked.

 

I already posted about this in the past, but no solution came out, I'm hoping for better luck this time!

Thanks!

[Pšenda]

ICC profile for monitor in OS? 

[Aeon Soul]

3 hours ago, Pšenda said:

ICC profile for monitor in OS? 

Wouldn't that affect everything though? Not just Affinity?

Everything else display colors properly (and all the same): browser, photoshop, other tools.

[Ldina]

Take a screenshot and upload your Affinity Color Settings (in Preferences/Settings). Maybe that will provide some clues. A screenshot of your default monitor profile in your OS too. Also suggest uploading that file to see what the embedded profile is, or whether it is an unprofiled file. More info is always better when troubleshooting.

[Pšenda]

3 hours ago, Aeon Soul said:

Wouldn't that affect everything though? Not just Affinity?

Everything else display colors properly (and all the same): browser, photoshop, other tools.

No,

Quote

The Affinity apps perform what is called document-to-screen colour profile conversion.
This means that the colour values are translated from their initial document values based on the current display profile.
Other apps do not perform such conversions, so these incorrect colours may only be shown within Affinity.

 

[lacerto]

It is not clear what kinds of images are involved, but as you seem to have Adobe RGB as the default RGB/8 profile, one thing worth knowing is that if you open RGB PNG files without a profile within Affinity apps, they will be assigned with the sRGB color profile and NOT the current working space color profile, like Adobe RGB.

I think that this might be a bug. There are no problems if you open TIFF files without a color profile, so Adobe RGB would be assigned if that is set as the working space RGB color profile. Notice that e.g. in Photoshop, "no color management" (e.g., applied if there is some conflict, or a situation that cannot be dealt in a controlled manner) means: assign the working space color profile. Within Affinity apps it might mean: use factory default sRGB as fallback. 

Anyway, something like that seems to be going on in your working space, so within Photoshop you see more saturated colors, as if Adobe RGB might be the dominant color profile, while when you open the same file (non-color-managed flavor) in an Affinity app, you get (inadvertently) the same unaltered color values displayed in a lower-gamut sRGB color profile. But without knowing details, this is just guessing, one possible explanation. 

UPDATE: I checked, and the behavior (defaulting to sRGB when no profile is embedded) is identical with JPGs. TIFF and PSD files without a profile however are assigned with working RGB profile.

[Ldina]

5 hours ago, lacerto said:

I think that this might be a bug.

And I suspect you are correct. In another discussion, we were talking about opening RGB files without embedded profiles. It appears Affinity Apps "assume" sRGB (at least with the file formats I tried), regardless of what RGB profile is specified in Affinity Color Settings. My default RGB in Affinity color settings is Display P3, but opening a file without a profile assumes and assigns sRGB. I would have expected it to assign my Display P3, and then warn me, since I have "Warn when assigning working profile to unprofiled images" checked. It doesn't. Since It didn't convert to MY default RGB profile, I guess it didn't warn me, but it should at least alert the user that sRGB was assigned. I forget what file format I tested, but I need to check different file formats and see if they are treated differently. If so, they shouldn't be treated differently, at least in my opinion. I'd have expected Display P3 to be assigned, with a warning (on my system).

My Affinity color settings have Display P3 set, as shown above. On my Mac colors are fine, whites are white, etc. (exactly what I'd expect). If one is forced to set their OS Display Profile to sRGB, that might correct the display of images and whites in Affinity Apps, but it seems to me that defeats the idea of having a profiled monitor in the first place. Not all monitors are the same, and the purpose of the monitor profile in the OS is to correct color and tonal distribution, set the color of white, gamut, make sure neutrals are neutral, etc. Setting the OS monitor profile to sRGB will affect the display color and tone in ALL applications. If that's what is required to get correct display in Affinity apps, so be it, but it doesn't seem like a great solution to me. Perhaps I'm missing something? (and I did read Dan C's post in the link above).

Comments?

[Pšenda]

20 minutes ago, Ldina said:

If one is forced to set their OS Display Profile to sRGB

Nobody (certainly not Affinity) forces anyone to use sRGB. It's up to everyone what working profile they choose - but it must then be adhered to throughout the entire processing and display process. And trouble-free display is also the reason why sRGB is "recommended", because it's a standard profile that all users can display. But if you don't share your images with anyone, you can easily design/invent your own profile.

 

20 minutes ago, Ldina said:

Setting the OS monitor profile to sRGB will affect the display color and tone in ALL applications.

Not all of them, just those that use these profiles for display on the canvas, see the previous quote from Dan's post. And there aren't many of these applications, even graphical ones, which of course should do this as well.

[Ldina]

1 minute ago, Pšenda said:

Nobody (certainly not Affinity) forces anyone to use sRGB.

They are if their colors don't display correctly in Affinity products. Fortunately, mine do, so I can use whatever display profile I like, but what about others. I'm looking to understand why setting sRGB as the OS profile is a good idea. Won't all apps that are color managed convert from document space to sRGB for display?

[Pšenda]

14 minutes ago, Ldina said:

I'm looking to understand why setting sRGB as the OS profile is a good idea.

Using the standard sRGB is a good idea because it will display it correctly (to the best of its ability) on all monitors. If you have a monitor that displays ProPhoto RGB and you only share your images with users who all have equally good monitors that support ProPhoto RGB, feel free to use this profile. However, if you want to share your output with someone who doesn't have a ProPhoto RGB monitor, you'll need to convert it specifically to sRGB for them so that your images display correctly on their imperfect monitors.

For example: https://www.erase.bg/blog/srgb-vs-prophoto-rgb-vs-adobe-rgb

[Ldina]

6 hours ago, Pšenda said:

Using the standard sRGB is a good idea because it will display it correctly (to the best of its ability) on all monitors. If you have a monitor that displays ProPhoto RGB and you only share your images with users who all have equally good monitors that support ProPhoto RGB, feel free to use this profile. However, if you want to share your output with someone who doesn't have a ProPhoto RGB monitor, you'll need to convert it specifically to sRGB for them so that your images display correctly on their imperfect monitors.

Maybe I'm not understanding what you are saying, perhaps a language difference. So, I will expand a little...I'm just trying to understand if this all makes sense (it doesn't so far, at least to me).

Historically, monitor calibration and profiling (custom or generic) had one function... Calibrate the monitor to a specific white point (D50, D65, etc), set display brightness and gamma, make sure grays are neutral, correct tonal distribution, tweak colors to display them as accurately as possible, and establish the color gamut of that monitor. The ICC profile characterizes and saves the monitor calibration information and creates a matrix or table describing the monitor's capabilities, plus the tables needed for conversion to the display. At least in Photoshop and other color managed apps, I can work in ProPhoto, and the ProPhoto RGB numbers in my file will be converted to my display profile "on the fly" for display. If my monitor is capable of displaying 99% of Adobe RGB, then all the colors that are "in gamut" for my monitor will be converted from ProPhoto to my monitor profile and displayed accurately. Any colors that fall outside of my monitor gamut will be clipped to the nearest displayable color (which is controlled by my monitor profile and the color management module). 

If I send you a file or post it on the internet, and want to be SURE you can see the colors accurately, I will Convert my file to sRGB. This will display well inside of color managed apps, but also apps that are not color managed (such as the Affinity forum, which assumes sRGB). Converting to sRGB will destructively clip any out of gamut colors to fit into the smaller sRGB color space, but at least all "in gamut colors" should display accurately on your monitor, if you have an accurately calibrated and profiled monitor. That's the way color management is set up, to insure we all see the same image, if our monitors are calibrated and profiled properly. Anyone viewing a file (whether ProPhoto, Adobe RGB, P3 or sRGB) in a color managed application will see an accurate image (limited only by their monitor's color gamut). All out of gamut colors will be clipped to fit into their monitor's color space, which is established by the matrix or tables contained inside the monitor profile. Do we agree on this? If not, I'm open to learning something new.

If the above is true, setting the monitor profile to sRGB in the OS will clip the display of all colors to sRGB in ALL applications that are color managed. Most applications and browsers are color managed these days. Not only that, but sRGB probably does NOT accurately characterize most monitors, so colors may not be displayed accurately. Your monitor and mine are different, so without accurate monitor profiles, we will see a different rendition of the image. To display an exact LAB color of red on my monitor will require specific RGB numbers, but your monitor will need slightly different RGB numbers to display that same LAB color. The monitor profile set in the OS is what does that work, along with the color management engine. That is one of the problems color management was designed to solve, which it does well. So, to me, setting the monitor profile to sRGB in the OS is a poor solution. and seems self defeating.

Maybe what Serif is doing makes total sense, but if so, I am missing a few pieces of the puzzle. I'm not trying to be difficult...I'm just trying to fill in the blanks. 

Thanks.

[Aeon Soul]

Ok, so I am attaching both my Affinity settings and my OS.

My major issue is actually with native Affinity designer documents. I've been creating my patterns in Designer (which I love by the way) and when I started creating palettes I realized the colors I was choosing inside the tool did not match what I was exporting, as well as the palettes I created online and imported did not match what I ended up with in Affinity.

I've just started to work with stuff that needs to be printed out instead of just svgs so I need to fix this .

The thing is though, I asked my parter to check this for me and he has the same color/tone issue, even with a different monitor + profile, although both the displays are asus so perhaps they have a similar color profile.

[Ldina]

@Aeon Soul Thanks.

Can you upload your Monitor ICC profile, and also an Affinity Designer file that clearly exhibits the problem you are describing? I'm not sure I have the answers, but will take a look. Hopefully, I, or someone else, can help solve the issue.

Perhaps what @Pšenda has suggested will fix it for you. He's been using Affinity a lot longer than I have and is very knowledgeable. BTW, have you tried setting sRGB as your monitor profile, and if so, does that solve the problem? (I'm still wresting with why that's a good idea, but that is another discussion, though probably related.)

15 minutes ago, Aeon Soul said:

I realized the colors I was choosing inside the tool did not match what I was exporting

One additional thought...the color differences between what you see in Designer, print and export can be due to export or print settings. How and what are you comparing? If you are comparing RGB numbers, both your document and the exported file need to be in the same color space. 

[Pšenda]

51 minutes ago, Aeon Soul said:

so I am attaching both my Affinity settings and my OS.

And "document" profile is?

[Ldina]

@Aeon Soul If you create a Designer document using Adobe RGB and then export to SVG, (which is designed primarily for the web), then open that SVG in Designer, it will open as an sRGB document. The color NUMBERS will still be the same, but they will be interpreted as sRGB numbers, not Adobe RGB numbers. Their appearance will be duller and less saturated, especially if you use very bright, pure colors in your original Designer document. You can see sRGB if you open Document Setup > Color. Same numbers, different appearance. If you ASSIGN Adobe RGB to your SVG document, the numbers will stay the same, but they will now match the colors in your original Designer document. If exporting to SVG, I'd definitely set my Designer color space to sRGB, so they match.

If you export to PDF (PDF for Export) and reopen the exported PDF in Designer, the colors will match because PDF is flexible and supports any color space. PDF for Export defaults to "Use document color space", so your exported file will use Adobe RGB, the same as your original document. Most other formats (JPG, PNG, TIFF, etc) also allow you to export to the original document color space, so they should also match your original document. 

If that's what you are seeing, that is correct. If not, it's a different issue. As mentioned earlier in this discussion, MORE information is better. Without adequate information, there are many possibilities and we are just guessing.

[lacerto]

4 hours ago, Aeon Soul said:

The thing is though, I asked my parter to check this for me and he has the same color/tone issue, even with a different monitor + profile, although both the displays are asus so perhaps they have a similar color profile.

There is basically nothing wrong with your color settings, but I would ensure at least the following to see if it helps:

1) First, make sure that your document color mode is RGB (RGB/8) rather than CMYK. If it is CMYK (which it would be if you create your Designer document from within the Press section), the colors of your document will be displayed as if permanent soft proof were turned on, meaning that your RGB color definitions would be shown as if printed in CMYK (in your case the default is U.S. Web Coated v2 (which is Affinity default). If you have earlier been working with Adobe apps, this does not happen there because soft proof is a mode that can be turned off and on so your RGB definitions would be shown true even in a CMYK document.

2) Second, if you switch color modes in your typical workflows, beware that Windows color management is not always as steady and reliable as could be wished, so at times device-specific color profiles, even when based on device-based measurements (ICC profiles), do not "take". Sometimes just restarting the computer fixes these kinds of issues. 

Your device is capable of showing 160% of sRGB color gamut so there is a good reason to use a color profile that matches the device, but you also need to make sure that device settings are correct, and it is recommended to use a calibrator time to time to measure display wear, etc. The instructions are device specific so not easily advisable on a forum like this. The problem could of course also be "resolved" by limiting capabilities of your device to sRGB, which would work fine in your current workflow (producing something for SVG -- in which case it would be useful also to make sure that the document RGB color profile is sRGB rather than Adobe RGB), but would of course otherwise limit your color-related operations. 

[Aeon Soul]

Ok, so in a turn of events I changed my monitor today and Affinity's colors are looking "proper", meaning that they look the same as in any other application / browser / etc..

To clarify, I wasn't having issues with any specific kind of file or export setting, any file in affinity would display the same muted tones
When I exported something, regardless of the file type used (svg, png or tiff) they would display correctly because yes, it was just the "preview" of colors in Affinity that was off.

The monitor I'm using now also has sRGB and Wide Gamut and the colors look ok with both settings, with the Wide Gamut they are very saturated, but again, just as in any other application.

That was the point for me, consistency; and for some reason with the other monitor I lacked this consistency in Affinity. In fact right now the colors are a little brighter in Affinity, but I do not feel the difference is a deal-breaker.