Parasitic Text Tooltip delete?

[hayaku]

Hello,

I am loving Publisher 2, but it has many glaring/clunky usability oversights that get in the way of a polished & fluid user experience, and in time I would really like to see some of these fixed.

The one I am currently referring to is the 'feature' where clicking in side of a text-box (to edit some text) reverts the tooltip to "Text Frame Tool" which is totally needless.

I spend about 7 hours a day proofing and editing text, and about ~300 times per day, I end up accidentally creating these mini text frames outside the main document, when I click back out of the text frame for whatever reason. I then had to hit S and select it, and delete it.

For reference: I set up my text frames ONCE (and only once) during my template design. I have no further need for more text frames, and absolutely do not need them placed in the black space outside of my document.

However, I do need to regularly click into my text frames to edit the text contained.

Is there some way that this feature can be wrestled into control?

I would really love it if clicking out of a text frame reverted the tooltip to S (or 'Select') since this is what I'll be using in 99.999% of cases, and not the Text Frame Tool.
 

[MikeTO]

Clicking on a text frame with the Move tool [V] does not automatically change to the Frame Text tool [T] - you have to click a second time to activate this feature. Are you perhaps double-clicking instead of single-clicking?

I don't understand how you're creating unwanted text frames. If I single click outside of a text frame using the Frame Text tool, the selected frame will become deselected but a text frame will not be created - I must drag to draw a text frame. If I double-click, Publisher will switch back to the Move tool. Are you perhaps dragging the mouse a bit when clicking outside? What type of mouse or trackpad are you using?

[hayaku]

18 hours ago, MikeTO said:

Clicking on a text frame with the Move tool [V] does not automatically change to the Frame Text tool [T] - you have to click a second time to activate this feature. Are you perhaps double-clicking instead of single-clicking?

I don't understand how you're creating unwanted text frames. If I single click outside of a text frame using the Frame Text tool, the selected frame will become deselected but a text frame will not be created - I must drag to draw a text frame. If I double-click, Publisher will switch back to the Move tool. Are you perhaps dragging the mouse a bit when clicking outside? What type of mouse or trackpad are you using?

Mike, you completely misunderstand the situation.

Clicking INSIDE of a text frame (the only way to edit the text contained) will then revert the tooltip to one which creates more text frames, no matter where you click.

I am not trying to move my text frames. I am trying to click inside of them and edit the text.

I tested it again just now. Getting the "blinking cursor" to appear within a text frame will revert the tooltip to one which creates text frames in 100% of cases. No dragging, no unnecessary double clicking, it's just (for some strange reason) coded to do this.

[Pšenda]

Could you provide a video?

P.S. What do you mean by "Tooltip"? This term is used for a buble/hint/help that appears when you hover your mouse over a user interface element.

Edited November 26, 2024 by Pšenda

[MikeTO]

I assume by "tooltip" that you mean "tool".

 This is the "Frame Text" tool [T] and is used to create new text frames by dragging on a blank area of the canvas and to edit the text in text frames. 

 This is the "Move" tool [V] and is used to select objects, including text frames. Clicking twice on a frame with the Move tool will automatically switch to the Frame Text tool and start editing the text.

There is no "Select" [S] tool involved so yes, I am very confused what you are trying to describe and a screen recording would be helpful to understand the issue.

[Pšenda]

50 minutes ago, MikeTO said:

I am very confused what you are trying to describe

... it's also not clear to me that if an extra text frame is created by"Clicking INSIDE of a text frame", why does it create an "outside the main document - in the black space outside of my document"?

 

5 hours ago, hayaku said:

Clicking INSIDE of a text frame (the only way to edit the text contained)

Are you clicking on the "text" of this frame that you want to edit, or on the frame itself, or on the free space around the text?
Although in neither case am I able to create another text frame - I always end up editing the text.

[hayaku]

2 hours ago, MikeTO said:

I assume by "tooltip" that you mean "tool".

 This is the "Frame Text" tool [T] and is used to create new text frames by dragging on a blank area of the canvas and to edit the text in text frames. 

 This is the "Move" tool [V] and is used to select objects, including text frames. Clicking twice on a frame with the Move tool will automatically switch to the Frame Text tool and start editing the text.

There is no "Select" [S] tool involved so yes, I am very confused what you are trying to describe and a screen recording would be helpful to understand the issue.

Ok, yes, you are right, it is the "Move" tool not the "Select" tool. Very sorry about that.

Here is a workflow of the issue:

1) I have a [Text Frame] containing text. I wish to edit that text.

2) I click it once. It becomes highlighted with a blue border. Great, but nothing has happened. I need a blinking cursor to appear.

3) I click the [Text Frame] a second time. Blue border remains, but now, I have a blinking cursor, allowing me to edit the text. Yay!

4) I am done editing my text. I wish to use hotkeys without typing nonsense keystrokes into my body text, which requires me to click outside of the [Text Frame] to de-select it. Fine, very standard UX behavior so far.

5) Unbeknownst to me, my [Tool] has changed from [Move] to [Frame Text Tool], without my consent, simply by engaging in the editing process. Thus, my attempt to 'click out' creates very small Text Frames, when all I would like to do is de-select my current Text Frame.

I understand that hovering my mouse at a perfectly still location, and clicking out, will not cause a Text Frame to appear. But this is not a solution, this only slows down my workflow to a very frustrating crawl, for no real benefit.

I thus have become very very adept at clicking out and deleting unwanted text frames with every edit. I am doing this hundreds of times per day, but I would much rather if they did not appear to begin with.

Thanks for your patience. Hope it makes sense now.

 

[Pšenda]

26 minutes ago, hayaku said:

I wish to use hotkeys without typing nonsense keystrokes into my body text, which requires me to click outside of the [Text Frame] to de-select it.

Key ESC?

 

26 minutes ago, hayaku said:

Unbeknownst to me, my [Tool] has changed from [Move] to [Frame Text Tool], without my consent, simply by engaging in the editing process.

In my opinion, changing the tool from the Move Tool, which is used to transform objects, not to edit text, is quite logical. If Serif - even optionally - disabled the automatic change from the Move Tool to the Text Frame Tool - to prevent you from changing the tool unintentionally and undesirably, you would not be able to easily edit text - you simply cannot edit text using the Move Tool.

[MikeTO]

Hotkeys: Press Esc to remove the blinking cursor and then V to switch to the Move tool. If you like, then press Esc to deselect the text frame.

But I still can't duplicate this issue, I have to consciously drag to create a text frame when clicking on the page. What type of mouse are you using?

Is it a high resolution mouse? There have been some odd problems with them and I wonder if this could be the cause.

[Pšenda]

4 minutes ago, MikeTO said:

I have to consciously drag to create a text frame when clicking on the page

I think the OP is aware that a Text Frame is created by dragging:

29 minutes ago, hayaku said:

I understand that hovering my mouse at a perfectly still location, and clicking out, will not cause a Text Frame to appear.

 

[MikeTO]

4 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

I think the OP is aware that a Text Frame is created by dragging:

I know, I was trying to convey that I must consciously try to create a text frame, and that I cannot accidentally create a text frame.

[fde101]

9 hours ago, hayaku said:

I click the [Text Frame] a second time. Blue border remains, but now, I have a blinking cursor, allowing me to edit the text.

Yes, because the second click on the text frame is a shortcut for switching to the text frame tool, allowing the text to be edited.

 

9 hours ago, hayaku said:

my [Tool] has changed from [Move] to [Frame Text Tool], without my consent, simply by engaging in the editing process

The "editing process" requires one of the text tools to be selected.  You gave "consent" to switch tools by asking to edit the text (with the second click).

 

9 hours ago, Pšenda said:

f Serif - even optionally - disabled the automatic change from the Move Tool to the Text Frame Tool - to prevent you from changing the tool unintentionally and undesirably, you would not be able to easily edit text - you simply cannot edit text using the Move Tool.

Agreed, but one option they could consider would be to remember that the tool was activated in this manner and when the user presses ESCape (or possibly clicks out of the frame) to stop editing, they could automatically switch back.  It would probably be best to defer that, however, if the click out of the frame is a click into another frame (or artistic text).

[hayaku]

Quick update:

Currently using Logitech MX Master 2S for my Mouse (since I'm traveling). For some reason, this problem never happens with this mouse.

To replicate the bug, I really have to click and drag outside the text frame in a rather forceful way. With my old (wired) mouse, any click whatsoever would create a new text frame, unless I was putting extra special attention to keep it ultra, ultra still.

So yeah I think its a DPI / polling rate issue. Either that, or this has been silently fixed in one of the updates since making this post.

Will be getting my old mouse back in a few weeks, will try things and report back!

PS—Old mouse was Razer Deathadder V2, running at 20,000 CPI / 1,000 Hz.

[MikeTO]

I think the mouse was the issue, Affinity has a known issue with high resolution mice.

[hayaku]

Update,

I've got my old equipment back including mouse.

I'm getting parasitic tooltips every few minutes, driving me crazy.

Any hope for an update to fix this? It's making Affinity almost unusable.

[Alfred]

1 hour ago, hayaku said:

I'm getting parasitic tooltips every few minutes, driving me crazy.

As explained previously, a ‘tooltip’ is a tip (or hint) that pops up to tell you something about the currently active tool.

I’m afraid I don’t see anything ‘parasitic’ about any of the behaviour described in this thread.

[hayaku]

I’m referring to an issue where the Text Tool remains active and causes spurious frame creation due to high-sensitivity input, which may not register as a click-only. It’s not a tooltip—it’s a false-positive drag event leading to unintentional UI artifacts.

I am trying to speak plain-English, but you are expecting me to communicate like a UX designer, which I find very unprofessional.

In general English, "parasitic" describes something that attaches itself to a host and drains resources or causes side effects without contributing anything useful — which is a decent metaphor for these accidental text frames. They’re:

    1) Unwanted

    2) Accidentally created by normal behavior

    3) Cluttering the workspace

    4) Hard to detect until they cause problems

So the metaphor fits. Moreover the problem is real, and it is extremely frustrating.

[Pšenda]

30 minutes ago, hayaku said:

to communicate like a UX designer

The commonly used meaning of the word "tooltip" was explained to you more than half a year ago (see "This term is used for a buble/hint/help that appears when you hover your mouse over a user interface element"). So just don't use the wrong term in the given context, because it is unnecessarily confusing for the reader. Especially in context with the word parasitic (see "I'm getting parasitic tooltips every few minutes..."), because it is a common OS function.

Regarding the unwanted creation of text frames - since this is the standard behavior of the application (when clicking outside the text frame and dragging, a new text frame is created), you will either have to change your procedures (end text editing by pressing ESC), or hope and wait for a change in the application's behavior, which will probably be undesirable and unwanted for many existing users.

[hayaku]

Somehow I don't think bugs with high DPI mice is intended behavior?

I have hundreds of applications which do not misinterpret a click as a click-and-drag. Seems to just be Affinity Publisher 2.

Would you like me to go back through and edit every post I made to remove ambiguity? I can happily do that.

"hope and wait for a change in the application's behavior, which will probably be undesirable and unwanted for many existing users" makes absolutely no sense, since my de facto fix is having two sets of mice plugged in: one which I use for  Affinity Publisher 2, and one which I use for every other app in existence.

[hayaku]

Ok I just spent some time researching this....

Software of this nature should really be implementing something called a "drag threshold" or "input denouncing" to prevent unintended textbox creation during attempted click-outs (like Adobe, and other mature software does). The alternative would be to prevent textbox creation within the pasteboard area/black space altogether, since this has extremely limited use cases; or at least make it an option that can be disabled.

Checking now, it seems that there IS a drag threshold; its just not set to work property for a 4k monitor or a high DPI mouse.

Fair enough. Who in their right mind would expect that somebody preparing a document for print would ever use something as ridiculous and ill-suited as a 4k monitor, or an expensive mouse? What next, somebody opening a tin of soup with a forklift?? 😝

Let's just face facts and call this what it is. A design oversight, or a bug.

[hayaku]

Update #2

Apparently, I am not the first to have delved into these waters.

Standard UX dogma for many years was to set a 4–5 pixel drag threshold. I guess this is what Affinity devs defaulted to?

However, many users on many softwares found this created bugs (circa 2018) and this has now been raised to anywhere between 8–15 pixels, depending on the software in question (some even going as high as 20 pixels in some cases).

Best practice seems to be to grab current resolution and DPI and scale from there, using an in-built table. Or else to leave it to the user to calibrate for themselves. But apparently, not everybody got the memo 😬