Document is read by printers as RGB in printers marks not CMYK

[annes]

I have checked all my settings, document set up is CMYK, I have tried both covert and assign settings, I have ticked all the relevant boxes in the 'more export' options. The result is the same the document is showing in the exported pdf with RGB and not CMYK. I then went on some help forums and found that if any photos were originally RGB (e.g. saved as jpegs from facebook photos) this could be the issue so as an experiment composed a new document with original jpeg and again RGB in printers marks, sothe advice to check every photo may be redundant as the original photo jpeg was not downloaded from any other source. I have experimented with changing the colour profile but that makes no difference either. I never use RGB for anything and this has not happened before so what am I missing. This has to be something in the default settings somewhere surely? This is urgent t as I have a book to get to the printer before the deadline. Am desperate.

[Hangman]

Hi @annes,

Is it just your images using RGB colour in the exported PDF or graphic elements as well?

If you look at your images in Resource Manager and select them individually are they shown using an RGB Colour Profile?

When you export your file to PDF, do you have:

1. The Colour Space set to CMYK
2. The Profile set to Use Document or a profile selected from the dropdown
3. Convert image colour spaces ticked

If you do and you're still seeing the issue can you upload a sample PDF so we can take a look, just a single page that demonstrates the problem will be sufficient and ideally can you upload your Publisher document or just the new document you created as an experiment along with the image files...

[annes]

Thank you. The printer's marks are shown as RGB on my pdf copy on exported pdf though printers says graphics and text are OK as CMYK on checking with Adobe acrobat professional. They still show in the RGB format on my pdfs and I don't Have professional so can't check every item on every page.

But printers says all individual uploaded images all show as RGB whatever the original source (wen/  / jpeg/ png etc). Printers can get around this in the short term by converting whole document to CMYK but we will have some colour changes with the colour blue, I am going down there to check whether this is serious or not. However, I do need to get to the bottom of this issue. Unfortunately in this paricular document the colour blue has to be compatible with CMYK in an official logo which as luck would have it is blue! 

I exported a chapter from my book (84 pages) to a new file as experimenting with big master files takes too long to load, save change, export, print etc

PDF selected is press ready though changing to print ready does not alter the outcome. In line with good engineering practice, if something does not work, change one thing at a time and see what happens.

In the test pdf file to answer your points.

The colour space is set to CMYK

The profile was not originally set to use document, I think the default setting may have been different but in experimenting with an extracted chapter on a new file I did change this to Use Document and it still exports as RGB.

The profile set to use document and the convert image colour spaces is ticked in my test chapter. I also downloaded the check list from affinity help in exporting pdfs and again I cannot see what I have done that is any different.

So what I am going to do when I return from the printer to see if Plan B is acceptable converting via Adobe is set to up a new file from scratch as single pages and import a chapter from the original file completely from scratch, this will allow me to double check again that all original settings are in order nothing has been unchecked. I am sure that this must be where the problem is and then will send you the file so you can tell me where the rogue setting is.

[Hangman]

Hi @annes,

Thanks for the update...

When you have a moment could you upload a screenshot of your Document Setup window with the Colour section visible and an Affinity document with just a rectangle with the colour Blue used for the official logo or the logo itself if easier...

This should help to determine where the issue lies...

[annes]

Will do, 

the blue colour isn't an Affinity issue.  The issue isn't how good Acrobat Adobe Professional is or is not in converting individual images to CMYK for export in a pdf or in converting a big RGB file to CMYK.

The issue is I wanted to convert images to CMYK in an exported pdf file from Affinity before it was sent to the printer, and I failed to do this. Yes a pro printer can do this for me but I would prefer to convert in Affinity first.  It is helpful to see how successful this is in the pdf preview windows, before one sends a pdf file created in Affinity to the  printers. If anything printed is less sharp in a map or colour is slightly off in an image that was originally in RGB, or a blue or green is less bright,  it then might be possible to colour enhance an image if necessary and create a new pdf. 

What needs to be checked is why the conversion isn't happening when I try to export the whole document as CMYK pdf throughout to the printer. 

I will send some screenshots later

Anne

 

[annes]

Thank you. The printer's marks are shown as RGB on my pdf copy on exported pdf though printers says graphics and text are OK as CMYK on checking with Adobe acrobat professional. They still show in the RGB format on my pdfs and I don't Have professional so can't check every item on every page.

But printers says all individual uploaded images all show as RGB whatever the original source (wen/  / jpeg/ png etc). Printers can get around this in the short term by converting whole document to CMYK but we will have some colour changes with the colour blue, I am going down there to check whether this is serious or not. However, I do need to get to the bottom of this issue. Unfortunately in this paricular document the colour blue has to be compatible with CMYK in an official logo which as luck would have it is blue! 

I exported a chapter from my book (84 pages) to a new file as experimenting with big master files takes too long to load, save change, export, print etc

PDF selected is press ready though changing to print ready does not alter the outcome. In line with good engineering practice, if something does not work, change one thing at a time and see what happens.

In the test pdf file to answer your points.

The colour space is set to CMYK

The profile was not originally set to use document, I think the default setting may have been different but in experimenting with an extracted chapter on a new file I did change this to Use Document and it still exports as RGB.

The profile set to use document and the convert image colour spaces is ticked in my test chapter. I also downloaded the check list from affinity help in exporting pdfs and again I cannot see what I have done that is any different.

So what I am going to do when I return from the printer to see if Plan B is acceptable converting via Adobe is set to up a new file from scratch as single pages and import a chapter from the original file completely from scratch, this will allow me to double check again that all original settings are in order nothing has been unchecked. I am sure that this must be where the problem is and then will send you the file so you can tell me where the rogue setting is.

affinity pdf test.pdf Screenshot document set up.doc screenshot export settings.doc screenshot export setting 2.doc

[Hangman]

1 hour ago, annes said:

I am sure that this must be where the problem is and then will send you the file so you can tell me where the rogue setting is.

If you can send one chapter or even a few pages from one chapter of your Publisher file with the images embedded that would be perfect...

[annes]

Have sent some screenshots and a file as requested, not original file but recreated some pages from a chapter. Set up as facing pages but exported as all pages as printer wanted single pages in page order

[Hangman]

The Printer's Marks in your PDF all appear as CMYK which is what you'd expect but the images are all RGB.

When you say "The printer's marks are shown as RGB on my pdf copy on exported pdf" how are you determining they're RGB?

My other question is regarding the Blue logo... what file format is the logo, JPG, PNG, TIFF or a vector format? Can you perhaps upload a page as a PDF that includes the logo and let us know what the CMYK values are supposed to be?

[annes]

The printers marks on the press ready pdfs as exported are the printer's marks RGB bar line, not the CMYK printer's marks however, that is not necessarily determinate, as sometimes when converting a RGB file that might happen though this file was set up as CMYK.  When I send the files to printers they tell me that the none of the embedded RGB images file have converted to CMYK. We got around this by exporting the Affinity file to Acrobat 8 which is a compatible file and converting it that way. However, neither I or the printer could work out why my files are not converting using Affinity. When I have started new files as tests for the printer to check none of them have converted. Don't know why this is? Surely all files in the document should convert?

[Hangman]

Looking at your screenshots you don't have Convert Image Colour Spaces selected under the export settings which means none of the images are being converted from RGB to CMYK on export...

[annes]

On your export to pdf help page it says NOT to tick this box for press ready pdfs exports and it is NOT the default setting on export from press ready pdf  'more options'. Perhaps this needs to be amended if it works?  Am not sure it does though as I have just exported a file to pdf press ready using Convert Image Colour Spaces box ticked and again it shows the RBG bar in printer's marks, can't check this is the answer for a CMYK export with software I  have.  However, I do think we explored this setting before. If it has not worked and this option needs to be selected I guess another box might need to be unticked?  However, if you can check the export on your own computer and it has converted I will send a trial file to printers on Monday.

[Hangman]

Hi @annes,

Just to say, it's not my PDF help file, I'm just another end user like yourself...

Different print companies will have different file preparation requirements, some are happy to accept RGB files which I think is the norm these days because many files are repurposed for screen as well as print, others may insist on CMYK images so it all depends on what is requested... Equally, you need to be mindful of how the colours in your RGB files will change once converted to CMYK...

While the printer marks include both RGB and CMYK colour swatches they all use CMYK colour values so I don't think you need to be concerned with those, they're just a guide for the print company...

Unless there's a bug in the v1 software (which I'm not aware there is) then that setting should work, this is how it behaves in v2...

[annes]

Thank you Hangman for having a go. I have V1, not V2 so my screen options display differently. As you say most printers are happy with RGB and can do a conversion. This was a bit unusual as it was an A5 84 page illustrated book with a high number of maps, illustrations, landscape photos. I guess the printer wanted CMYK and single pages, to make the process his end quicker and more straightforward. We got around it OK. I am aware of the issues you mention, it's one of the reasons why I like to see the exported CMYK version in the preview before I mail the pdf file to print, as I can see what pictures need to be enhanced, brightened, blues and greens tend to be duller when converted. I guess either I keep experimenting with settings or possibly need to upgrade to V2, though V1 is OK for what I mostly need to do.

[Hangman]

Hi @annes,

1. Could you create a new empty V1 CMYK Publisher document
2. Add an RGB image to the page
3. Export it as PDF (Press Ready) with Convert Image Colour Spaces selected, Embed Profiles selected and name the file CICS Selected.pdf
4. Export it as PDF (Press Ready) with Convert Image Colour Spaces unselected, Embed Profiles selected and name the file CICS Unselected.pdf

Then upload both PDF files. I'm keen to understand why you're not seeing the conversion you should be seeing...

[annes]

OK attached both versions here, they are pages from a book I am working on at the moment.  I can see a big difference in file size between them which may be indicative that the one has converted?  If you can check that one has successfully converted let me know. Both display RGB bars but that doesn't necessarily mean the images are still RGB. If you can't, I'll ask the printer to check on Monday. However, when we did this before he couldn't see any difference whether CICS was ticked or not.  I have not selected facing pages in original document set up as printer wants single pages and I find it difficult to check bleed margins in spreads for a document that must then be exported as single pages. However, when I experimented with spreads before we could not see any difference in the export by not ticking facing pages.

CICS unselected pdf north cover.pdf CICS selected pdf north cover.pdf

[Hangman]

Hi @annes,

Don't worry about the RGB Bars, they are purely for the printing press operator to check that colour density and consistency are maintained when printing the job...

These are your two files:

CICS unselected pdf north cover.pdf - Left | CICS selected pdf north cover.pdf - Right

[annes]

Many thanks Hangman! Default setting needs correcting and on help desk checklist too, but all's well that ends well.