keyboard shortcut for "move back one" , "move forward one"

[kenfhill84083]

In DrawPlus you can order objects by the keyboard shortcuts ctrl-shift-upArrow (arrange > order objects > forward one) or ctrl-shift-downArrow (arrange > order objects > back one).

 

This is very handy.  In Affinity Designer, these shortcuts move a selected objects down or up on the drawing.

 

How can I get the DP functionality in a shortcut?

[MattP]

On Mac, it's Cmd+[ or Cmd+] (and you can add the Shift modifier to move to bottom/top). So I'd imagine it's Ctrl+[ and Ctrl+] on Windows? (I don't have my Mac booted into Windows right now, but they should share the same basic shortcut format)

[kenfhill84083]

On Mac, it's Cmd+[ or Cmd+] (and you can add the Shift modifier to move to bottom/top). So I'd imagine it's Ctrl+[ and Ctrl+] on Windows? (I don't have my Mac booted into Windows right now, but they should share the same basic shortcut format)

 

Ctrl+[ and Ctrl+] don't do anything with selected objects that I can tell.  I have a drawing with 3 quick shapes overlapping.  I selected the object in the middle why I tried these key combos.  Nothing.

 

I agree with Bhikkhu Pesala in another post - that default hotkeys should match DrawPlus hotkeys rather than the hotkeys in the Mac version of Affinity Designer.  

 

And that shortcuts should be user definable. 

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

Shortcuts are user-definable in Preferences, Keyboard Shortcuts, but it's quite a lot of work to set them up, so a default shortcut profile compatible with DrawPlus should be provided. 

 

I modify my shortcuts in DrawPlus/PagePlus/WebPlus too because the defaults of Ctrl Shift Up/Down can too easily nudge an object up/down if the shift modifier is not held properly, and the slight movement may not be spotted.

 

So I use Ctrl + Shift + PageUp/Down for bring to front/send to back, and Ctrl + PageUp/Down for Forward One/Back One. 

[Mark Ingram]

Ctrl+[ and Ctrl+] don't do anything with selected objects that I can tell.  I have a drawing with 3 quick shapes overlapping.  I selected the object in the middle why I tried these key combos.  Nothing.

 

I agree with Bhikkhu Pesala in another post - that default hotkeys should match DrawPlus hotkeys rather than the hotkeys in the Mac version of Affinity Designer.  

 

And that shortcuts should be user definable. 

 

CTRL + [ and CTRL + ] seem to be working here? What happens when you use the menu to do it (Layer | Arrange)?

 

The shortcuts should not match DrawPlus, the products aren't related. It's more important that users switching platforms are comfortable using the same app.

 

Shortcuts are user definable (have a look in Edit | Preferences | Keyboard Shortcuts then choose Layer from the drop down).

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

The shortcuts should not match DrawPlus, the products aren't related. It's more important that users switching platforms are comfortable using the same app.

 

If you want to sell this Windows product to Windows users, it's more important that users switching from DrawPlus are comfortable with the new app. 

 

Honestly, what proportion of Mac users do you think are going to be buying the Windows versions of the Affinity Products? 

 

Anyway, you can easily solve this dilemma by providing shortcut profile files so that users can suit themselves. 

[Mark Ingram]

If you want to sell this Windows product to Windows users, it's more important that users switching from DrawPlus are comfortable with the new app. 

 

Honestly, what proportion of Mac users do you think are going to be buying the Windows versions of the Affinity Products? 

 

Enough that I feel it warrants this decision. Imagine the scenario where people are using Affinity in a work place, with a mixture of Mac and Windows computers, do you think they'll be grateful that we used the old DrawPlus shortcuts, or do you think they would prefer consistency in the same application?

[anon1]

Enough that I feel it warrants this decision. Imagine the scenario where people are using Affinity in a work place, with a mixture of Mac and Windows computers, do you think they'll be grateful that we used the old DrawPlus shortcuts, or do you think they would prefer consistency in the same application?

.....or a scenario where people learn AD by watching videos and reading books

 

You can easily make one DrawPlus style keyboard layout, export it and link to it in your signature if you make the effort for yourself anyway  B) MEB would probably even put it on his resources page if you ask him

[MikeW]

I personally believe that there will be less crossover users than "pure" Mac or Windows users. Which would say that if a crossover user desires to have the same user experience then they ought to be the ones to customize them.

 

In the end, though, I could care less. Most of my software have different keystrokes for similar or same functionality.

[kenfhill84083]

CTRL + [ and CTRL + ] seem to be working here? What happens when you use the menu to do it (Layer | Arrange)?

 

The shortcuts should not match DrawPlus, the products aren't related. It's more important that users switching platforms are comfortable using the same app.

 

Shortcuts are user definable (have a look in Edit | Preferences | Keyboard Shortcuts then choose Layer from the drop down).

 

Thanks.  I guess I'm used to DrawPlus speed and nimbleness.  Now I see that the hotkeys are working.  I didn't realize everything happens in slow motion.  

 

If you say DrawPlus and Designer are not related I have to believe you.  But Designer looks like a darker, more monochrome version of DP.  The studio tabs are obviously very similar.

 

I agree with Bhikkhu Pesala that easily-accessed profiles -- especially including one for DrawPlus compatibility -- should be shipped with the program.

 

BTW - Here edit > preferences > keyboard shortcuts is truncated to  "eyboard shortcul".

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

BTW - Here edit > preferences > keyboard shortcuts is truncated to  "eyboard shortcul".

 

No such problem here on Windows 10 with 125% display settings. 

[Mark Ingram]

Thanks.  I guess I'm used to DrawPlus speed and nimbleness.  Now I see that the hotkeys are working.  I didn't realize everything happens in slow motion.  

 

Well that sounds like a pretty serious problem! Can you record a video that I can take a look at?

[kenfhill84083]

Well that sounds like a pretty serious problem! Can you record a video that I can take a look at?

 

I don't have time now to learn how to attach files so here it is on dropbox.  I think my perception of speed is partly seeing the object move then seeing its representation move on the layers tab.  Also, when I first wrote, I had zoomed in on some objects and forgot there were a couple of other objects on the drawing so they may have been adding to the "slowness".  

 

It still seems sluggish compared to DrawPlus.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4mjjr39jy4s6w5g/affinity%20designer%20-%20arranging%20objects%20on%20layer.wmv?dl=0

[Mark Ingram]

I don't have time now to learn how to attach files so here it is on dropbox.  I think my perception of speed is partly seeing the object move then seeing its representation move on the layers tab.  Also, when I first wrote, I had zoomed in on some objects and forgot there were a couple of other objects on the drawing so they may have been adding to the "slowness".  

 

It still seems sluggish compared to DrawPlus.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4mjjr39jy4s6w5g/affinity%20designer%20-%20arranging%20objects%20on%20layer.wmv?dl=0

 

Thanks Ken, can you tell me the spec of your machine? CPU / GPU / memory / hard drive?

[MattP]

I just wanted to make a quick post to make the logic behind our decisions clear: In real world scenarios, we imagine users are going to be working in offices using Windows and Mac computers (or perhaps one type of machine at work, another at home) and it is therefore paramount that the products look and function as seamlessly as possible between the two operating systems.

 

The likelihood of our user base having DrawPlus running at the same time as Affinity and getting annoyed that the shortcuts are different is obviously a real problem, but it is not the bread+butter use case that we are focusing on. DrawPlus is a legacy product now, it is not the future of our company, so why would we decide to break the workflow between Mac and Windows of our product just to make a connection to a legacy product that has no future. The user base of DrawPlus is far smaller than the potential user base of Affinity.

[RosieH]

While I appreciate that you see DrawPlus as a "legacy product", many of its loyal users do not.  In Pixel personal, Affinity is just brilliant and I am using it all the time.  In Draw persona, though, it lacks some of the basic tools that I use for design and vector drawing.  These tools may be "dumbed down" (as someone so condescendingly put it) but they are useful.  As an artist, and not a computer technician, I can see no reason to make Affinity more complicated to use.  I want to be creative not spend ages trying to work out how to do something that DrawPlus does easily. 

 

In my case, therefore, I would be using DrawPlus and Affinity together.  This is a shame because I think Affinity could do it all if you would listen to what people in this "public" (not professional)  beta forum are saying.

 

As you will not be making any new versions of DrawPlus many people will want to turn to Affinity as an alternative so you need to consider them as well, not just your "professional" clients (whatever professional means).

 

I have not had much to say in this beta test because, try as I might, I cannot find fault with Affinity as it is.  It is fast and stable on my computer.  My only problem is that the Draw persona appears incomplete.

 

I am really saddened by your attitude towards those of us who have been loyal Serif advocates for many years.  I was really looking forward to testing Affinity and adding it to my drawing software.  I had no idea it was not meant for us" hobbyists and home users" and even professional artists who are not computer savvy.  It seems a case of "goodbye and no thanks for all the loyalty".

[MattP]

Hi Rosie,

 

It's definitely not the case that anybody is trying to be condescending or not value the customers that Serif has already acquired over the years - I was personally writing DrawPlus and PagePlus for a number of years and I was proud of what I did. We're only trying to get the message across that these new products are not meant to be the new version of the Plus products - for better or worse (and there will be a mix of both!) They do not have matching features because we haven't written them yet and we don't want to just take the features from the Plus products because we know how they work internally and we know their weaknesses so we don't want to adopt them. We are not trying to exclude hobby or home users, but we are focusing on professional use-cases because if professionals can get their jobs done in the software, then that means the software is up to the task of anything a home or hobby user could throw at it. If something is actually harder in Affinity than in a Plus product, then we need to know exactly what it is because a task should never be harder or more convoluted without a very good reason. If the task is harder because features don't exist then that's fine - as we've already mentioned, we know features are missing and we're gradually adding them.

 

When people are saying the shortcuts should be the same as DrawPlus - this is an example of exactly what we don't want. We need to converge on the industry's accepted shortcuts for the benefit of all users, both new and old, professional or home users alike - any tutorials you may find that use other products will most likely make use of these same shortcut keys so they will be easier to follow.

 

Thanks,

Matt

[MEB]

Hi RosieH,

Affinity isn't more complicated to use per si. It just approaches certain operations in a different way, usually providing more control over those operations than DrawPlus did. This doesn't mean it's able to provide the same functionality you find in DrawPlus currently. As you said certain tools/features are not there yet. But this is because DrawPlus has a lot more years of development under his belt, not necessarily because Affinity is inferior or difficult to use. We do intend to close those gaps as we move along. Some of the missing tools were already disclosed in Affinity Designer's roadmap which covers the development of version 1.X.

More will be added as the development progresses in future versions.

 

Although those features are present and were already developed for DrawPlus, they were built over old code with all limitations and constraints it implies. At some point it becomes difficult to keep implementing things in an efficient way because decisions and approaches taken in the past start to limit/restrict what you can do at preset with that code. And during all this time there was also advancements in software programming and technologies that you couldn't take advantage off. This means everything was rethought and rewritten from scratch in Affinity and due to the large number of features/functionality integrated over the years in DrawPlus and other software, there wasn't yet enough time and development resources to "translate" that functionality (where is makes sense) to the new line of software.

 

I don't think its fair to say we don't listen Serif users. We listen all users no matter the platform or software they were using before or still use now, but obviously there's no way we can implement all things users request from their old software into Affinity. Some times those requests collide each other and even when not Affinity products themselves are not being developed as replacement for any of them but as a new line of products of its own.

 

 

[EDIT] Seems MattP was faster...

[RosieH]

Thanks for your replies Matt and MEB.  I understand what you are saying and am pleased that more tools for the Draw persona are in the works.  I was not saying that I expected Affinity to be just like DrawPlus, that would be pointless.  What I was trying to say is that there are aspects of DrawpPlus that should not be dismissed as "dumbed down".  When people ask if a certain feature could be included, to be repeatedly told that Affinity is for professionals is not an answer to a legitimate question.  I am not talking about shortcuts, I am talking abut tools. 

 

I think Affinity is a great step forward and in Pixel persona it has opened a whole new range of artistic possibilities for me. I am just a little fed up with being told it is for professionals which seems rather dismissive of those of us who are just artists (whether we sell our art or not).

[Joe T]

Hello all,

so I'm using affinity designer on windows and I can't use the move forward one -keyboard shortcut at all. I'm using a Finnish-keyboard settings (already tried US-keyboard as well) but I can't find any way to use this shortcut. All the different combinations I tried around those symbols and with different keys, resulted in nothing else than just zooming into an object or switching between my drawn objects. 

And when I tried to change these shortcuts according to my own preferences, I can't find the place to edit these shortcuts in the Keyboard Shortcuts-section. Is it possible at all? Seems to be a huge and frustrating problem if you'll fail to use a shortcut just because of an keyboard difference. 

Many thanks for any help!