Advanced Page Management: Page Reflow Control

[loukash]

4 minutes ago, matisso said:

someone had a “clever” idea to use a toggle without on / off states, only coloured red and green instead

My partially color-blind bandmate would have loved it. His favorite joke is that about a year after he bought it, he found out that his beloved and allegedly silvery Gretsch guitar is in fact green…

[MikeTO]

22 minutes ago, matisso said:

Good heavens, no. A selected checkbox indicates a confirmation, something that is set to “on”. Bad practice to complicate that. This idea is like placing a sign upside down and telling people ‘just bend over backwards and you’ll read this easily.’ You simply don’t use negative labels like this and confuse users.

I actually agree with you and I didn't mean to propose that as the real name of the control, I could have worded this better. I was trying to say that I believe the control meaning should be reversed. But there needs to be a better name.

It's a tongue twister to refer to these spreads over and over again in online help or a manual. e.g., "To add a page between the existing pages of a spread that has Reflow Through Spread disabled, drag..."

Maybe when the online help is released there will be an Affinity-specific name for these spreads, but at least until then I'm using Adobe's term of Island Spread in my manual and have defined the term. It's a nice metaphor because if the pages don't reflow the spread is an island in a sea of flowing pages. I'd prefer that this checkbox be named Island Spread and default to off, but if it doesn't change and there isn't an Affinity-specific term defined in the online help, I'll stick with Island Spread for my manual.

[bbrother]

6 hours ago, MikeTO said:

I'd prefer that this checkbox be named Island Spread and default to off

This would mean that checking (turn on) the checkbox would turn off reflowing for that particular spread. Which, as @matisso rightly pointed out, would be confusing since checkboxes are perceived as switches and commonly use the positive label approach. Essentially "turn on" the checkbox to "turn off"  the reflow doesn't feel much intuitive for me.

As for the label name,`Reflow Through Spread` explains better what action the checkbox controls than `Island spread`.

The `Island spread` metaphor itself may be good, an advanced user "may even know" what it means, but for a regular user it means next to nothing. Even in Adobe they do not use it commonly, they barely mention it when describing a more advanced function, and not always.

Summing it up, as for me, I am happy with what is there now and I find what you are suggesting would be less intuitive.

[MikeTO]

The new cursors are beautifully designed and they have the hot spot at the tip so it all works much better now. It feels Windows-ish on macOS to me and there's one bug where the wrong cursor is shown.

Move and Copy

Affinity:
Mac: 

Windows:  

1. Publisher for macOS switches from the standard Mac pointer (black fill) to the standard Windows pointer (white fill) when I start to drag in the Pages panel. Those who use both platforms regularly may not notice or care but it's not Mac like and is inconsistent with the rest of the app.
2. Publisher doesn't use either the standard Mac or Windows secondary cursor elements for move and copy. Apple and Microsoft both use a plus sign for drag copy but Affinity uses a 2-page stack when copying when reflow on and a spread with plus sign when copying with reflow off (shown below). I wish there was a plus sign for all copying. Also, the down arrow conveys moving down and copy moving to me.
   

Shuffle Left/Right

There's a minor bug that shows the wrong cursor when dragging over the separator of two pages on the same side of a spread's spine. If I'm dragging on the left side of the spine, I can only extend left and should only see the extend left cursor. But if I'm on the left side of the spine and on the right side of the separator of two pages on the left side, Affinity shows the extend right cursor.

Also the spine disappears when I drag over a spread which makes it less obvious which side I'm dragging on. Not a huge deal since users will figure it out but it seems odd to hide the spine at a time you need it.

Not Allowed - I don't think the not allowed symbol is really necessary but the slash direction should match the Mac and Windows standard which both use a backslash rather than a forward slash.

Affinity: 

Mac: 

6 hours ago, bbrother said:

This would mean that checking (turn on) the checkbox would turn off reflowing for that particular spread. Which, as @matisso rightly pointed out, would be confusing since checkboxes are perceived as switches and commonly use the positive label approach. Essentially "turn on" the checkbox to "turn off"  the reflow doesn't feel much intuitive for me.

As for the label name,`Reflow Through Spread` explains better what action the checkbox controls than `Island spread`.

IMO, locking a spread to prevent it from reflowing is turning on an option just like locking a layer is turning on an option. But this isn't important so let's just agree to disagree.

I agree that "a spread with Reflow Through Spread disabled" is more meaningful than "Island Spread", but it's very difficult to repeatedly use that long phrase in instructions without confusing a reader. In cases like this it's better to define a term. If Serif adopts a different term such as locked spread or fixed spread I will of course use it.

Adobe doesn't mention Island Spread very often in their documentation because they have a very simple implementation and very spartan documentation. Affinity has a lot of options so there is a lot more to write about.

[bbrother]

15 hours ago, MikeTO said:

I agree that "a spread with Reflow Through Spread disabled" is more meaningful than "Island Spread", but it's very difficult to repeatedly use that long phrase in instructions without confusing a reader. In cases like this it's better to define a term. If Serif adopts a different term such as locked spread or fixed spread I will of course use it.

Adobe doesn't mention Island Spread very often in their documentation because they have a very simple implementation and very spartan documentation. Affinity has a lot of options so there is a lot more to write about.

`Reflow Thoroug Spread` explains the options quite well and has only one more word than your suggestions, so I'm a bit surprised.

Besides, nobody is stopping you from using another term or metaphor in your unofficial documentation if you think it's better. All you have to do is associate `your` term or metaphor with an option in the program.

As for the Adobe vs Affinity comparison, yes, Affinity has more options in the new "Advanced Page Managing", but the usefulness of some of them is questionable. 

[fde101]

18 hours ago, MikeTO said:

the slash direction should match the Mac and Windows standard which both use a backslash rather than a forward slash

This one may be an artifact of the fact that Serif is based in the UK, while Windows and macOS were both created by companies in the USA.  In the USA, we drive on the right side of the road, and sit in the left seat of the vehicle while driving.  In the UK it is the other way around.

They probably felt like they needed to keep something backwards in order to show off their origins, and this one will probably result in a lot less complaints than the upside down crosshair mess of the placeholder pointers they had in the previous beta...  I'm not complaining about this one.

[Circulus]

A cross would have been the best of both worlds.

[Evaluation complete.]

I am quietly observing and pondering: “If one implements functionality that the market does not demand, in an incorrect or overly complicated way, how does one then sell it to potential customers who do not need it? And what are the success criteria for market rollout, and what is the strategy in relation to competitors?”

Just a quiet reflection. I will probably never end up using this myself.

[Circulus]

Serif never went to the kissing booth with its customers.
They just run it by some acquaintances or that uncle that comes by when there's beer at a party.
 

[Evaluation complete.]

A few years ago, I requested tasks where I could phase out products or services that were no longer used or sold - things that had been bad ideas or implementations from the start. I got the assignment and managed to terminate almost everything. It’s gone. Gone.

I had been in the company on the sidelines when these things were introduced, and I remembered the individuals who advocated for them - whether as project managers or in other roles. I initially believed in some ideas because their enthusiasm was contagious, and they argued convincingly. Other ideas I didn’t believe in, but they were adamant despite having no evidence. The Dunning-Kruger effect was at play in every way. They were wrong. THEY WERE WRONG. Yet they managed to get past leadership and decision-makers and were immovable when anyone opposed them. Now I’ve discussed the cost and consequences with my leaders. These were misjudgments and fanaticism that were never stopped. Thankfully, they weren’t core products that could have cost us dearly.

Another thing I’ve noticed is that many things in the workplace happen because everyone needs to justify their own existence in the labor market. Salary increases are often tied to achieving results, and in the worst cases, those results are realized products. But there’s no long-term measurement. This also means that partial products are released and forgotten in many cases - not matured or improved. People simply move on to the next product, which often focuses more on the creators than the customers.

I sense similar phenomena elsewhere in society, especially on a global scale. It’s often not just about minor disagreements or taking chances but about stopping amateurs before it is too late. 

We’ll see about this. But my goodness, I’ve spoken to so many blank, talking faces where they were completely wrong. The gift from nature - doubt about one’s own ideas is something many fail to truly embrace.

And then the most frustrating thing: a product that enters the pipeline when it shouldn’t be there, or is too big, takes up space for REAL wonderful products.

[MikeTO]

7 hours ago, bbrother said:

`Reflow Thoroug Spread` explains the options quite well and has only one more word than your suggestions, so I'm a bit surprised.

The comparison is "spread with Reflow Through Spread disabled" vs. a term such as "island spread". But it's not the number of words, it's that when you write "drag the spread to insert between the pages of a spread with Reflow Through Spread disabled" and have to do so repeatedly, it gets a bit wordy.

Not an important issue. Back to our regularly scheduled programming. 🙂 

[Affinity Info Bot]

The issue "Spread with Page Reflow disabled cannot be extended to the right when drag-dropping a page" (REF: AF-4874) has been fixed by the developers in the latest beta build (2.6.0.2900). The fix is planned for inclusion in the next customer release.
Customer beta builds are announced here and you can participate by following these instructions.
If you still experience this problem once you are using that build version (or later) please reply to this thread including @Affinity Info Bot to notify us.