But Why??? Cant get vectors to export

[squinx]

I apologize in advance since after spending hours reading other's issues with this - I still don't understand why I can't get this to export as a true vector to be read in Adobe Illustrator - I have tried svg. psd, pdf - all just flatten the image - if it has to do with the brushes, how to I select the shapes and curves and get rid of the problematic effects? Thanks in advance...

 

camus flower test.afdesign camus flower test.svg camus flower test.pdf

[Ldina]

@squinx This isn't my strongest suit, but I will share my understanding.

Most "vector brushes" in Affinity are actually pixel based images (created from pixel-based PNG images) that follow along a vector path. So, they are "sort-of-vector", since you can adjust the path, nodes, width, color, pressure, choose a different brush, etc, afterwards, but what is laid down are actually pixel based data. I think the only true vector brushes are those found in the Basic Brush category. Other brushes are not true vectors, though they are editable afterwards like vectors.

I can see in your afdesign file that you selected a "textured line style" in the stroke panel (the brush icon) and the brushes assigned to many of your strokes is not one of the Basic Brushes. So, you are actually laying down pixel based data. So, when you export, you get pixels, not vectors. 

If you select a Curve Layer in your design, you can select "Solid line style" in the strokes panel (instead of textured line style), select a basic brush, then use the Pressure curve and/or line width tool to taper the strokes. These should be true vectors and should export as vectors to SVG and PDF. You can select one curve, then Select > Select Same, and choose the appropriate attribute to select all other strokes of the same color, or width, or fill, etc, to modify many curves all at once. You can then adjust the line weight and pressure curve on multiple strokes all at once, rather than doing them one at a time. 

If you must have all vector output, you'll probably need to stick with standard Basic brushes, created with the Pen, Pencil or Vector brush, but only using basic brushes. That's my understanding. Others may have better advice and strategies to help.

EDIT: Shapes created with the shape tool (ellipses, rectangles, stars, cogs, etc) are also true vector shapes and will export as such, as long as the stroke applied to them is a "Basic Brush" stroke. I just created a "Star" shape using the Affinity supplied shapes. Both stroke and fill export as true vectors to SVG if you use a standard basic stroke. I then changed the outer stroke of the star to a textured brush (using a Non-basic brush). The fill exported as a vector, but the stroke exported on a new layer as a pixel based image.

[squinx]

Ldina, THANK YOU!! This is exactly the information I was looking for! In terms I could understand 😁 You just saved me so much work - I figured I was missing something obvious. To be clear "basic" brushes you mean use this menu, not the brushes menu, to avoid using the raster effects, correct?

[Ldina]

@squinx I'm so glad that was what you were looking for and that it was understandable!

Yes, when you click that "Sollid Line Style" in the Strokes Panel, that defaults to a Basic Brush, which is a round, hard-edged, true vector brush. I think that selects one of the brushes from the Basic category in the Brushes Panel, which again, are all vector. Any category other than Basic uses raster-based PNG files as the brush nozzle, so they will be laid down as pixels (even though you can still do a lot of vector-like adjustments afterwards). 

 

I believe all the brushes in the Basic Brush category are based on a hard, round, vector brush. If you double click on one of them in the Brushes Panel, it will bring up the Brush Editing window. Below is a 32 pixel Solid Brush with Pressure. It's a basic brush, but they have set a size variance of 75%, so if you are using a graphics tablet, how hard you press as you draw will make the stroke larger or smaller. The thinnest that stroke will be with very light pressure will be 25% of whatever width stroke you choose, so this brush will vary from 32 to 8 pixels at the extremes. If you set size variance to 100%, it will vary from full line width to zero line width. You can also set opacity variance to reduce opacity with a very light pressure. All the presets in the Basic category make changes to Width, Size and Opacity variance, so you do have some control. I generally leave the dropdown box set to "Pressure". If you use a graphics tablet, your stroke will vary (if you set any variance in the below box). If you don't use a tablet, you can still vary the width using the Pressure in the Stroke Panel, or use the Line Width Tool.

When you draw with the Pen, Pencil or Vector Brush, the "Controller" in the Toolbar will have an impact on how the stroke is laid down. If you use a graphics tablet, setting the controller to Pressure will tell Designer to vary the brush based on the pressure you apply when drawing. If it is set to None, the stroke will be a solid line without any variance in size or opacity. 

Be aware that if you change any settings in the Brush Editing Menu, they become the new default. So, if you have a custom brush you'd like to keep, duplicate the brush first, edit it as desired and save it with a new name (preferably in a new brush category that you create and name). This way, your default brushes will remain pristine and set to factory defaults. 

Hope all this helps clarify things somewhat. (I think everything I said is right, but no doubt, someone will correct me if I said something incorrect.)

[walt.farrell]

11 hours ago, Ldina said:

Yes, when you click that "Sollid Line Style" in the Strokes Panel, that defaults to a Basic Brush, which is a round, hard-edged, true vector brush. I think that selects one of the brushes from the Basic category in the Brushes Panel,

I don't think the Basic category is shipped any more in Designer (since 1.8), though it is available via an article in Affinity Spotlight. I think that by default only the first 2 brushes in Pens (Solid brush with pressure, solid brush with pressure and opacity) are true vectors now.

https://affinityspotlight.com/article/get-legacy-affinity-brushes/

[Ldina]

1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

I don't think the Basic category is shipped any more in Designer (since 1.8), though it is available via an article in Affinity Spotlight. I think that by default only the first 2 brushes in Pens (Solid brush with pressure, solid brush with pressure and opacity) are true vectors now.

Thank you, @walt.farrell, for the correction. Yes, I installed the "Basic Brush" category from that Spotlight Article and forgot I had done that. I learned a few things during the process.

@squinx Sorry if I confused you. I think most of what I wrote is true. After a little more experimentation, I learned a few more things, which I will share (hopefully, they are all correct!).

Below is a screenshot of a file I created in Designer. As Walt mentioned, when using the Vector Brush, the top two pens in the "Pens" brush category are true vector brushes. The rest are NOT and will export as "Images", i.e., pixels.

When I initially select the Pen or Pencil Tools, the stroke Panel defaults to "Solid Line Style" and these are also true vectors, if you leave it set to solid line style. Once the stroke is created, it is possible to change the stroke to a Textured Line Style if you wish, and you can pick from any brush in any brush category. However, they will ALL be pixel based, except for those top two brushes in the Pens Brush Category, which are vectors. The Pen and Pencil tool will "remember" the last stroke width, color, brush, etc, so future strokes will be drawn with the same characteristics.

I will attach the screenshot and the SVG I exported from Designer in case you want to inspect the results first hand.

Another tip-off to potential non-vectors on export is shown below in the SVG Export window. It says "some areas will be rasterized".

Sorry for any confusion or inaccuracies. 

pen brushes top to bottom.svg

[walt.farrell]

You're welcome, @Ldina.

[squinx]

@Ldina Yes this is all so helpful, for me and others down the line (ha) I imagine....I was stumped as to how to convert my work to true vectors once it was clear my work was indeed not vectorized. I can work with this! I will definitely looking for that default to solid line style, I was unaware of that. I do notice for some reason my pens are different, I don't think the top 2 are vector, I would imagine it's the ones called simple? For open and closed curves - not sure the difference - closed for shapemaking?

 

@walt.farrell Thank you, I was just going to mention that I don't see the basic brushes anymore _ curious why they wouldn't be included anymore, they are invaluable to the vector process to me-

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[squinx]

Looking at your svg file @Ldina, I find it curious that when I select the stroke, it doesn't highlight the brush or stroke information - this is one reason I get frustrated - I will find a brush I like or used, but I can't get back to it, because the system doesn't identify it after the fact, as far as I can tell. Unless I am missing something, I think that would be a super useful feature.

[Ldina]

Hi @squinx. There are more knowledgeable people on this forum regarding this topic, but I'll share what I know (or think I know!). For my purposes, I usually don't care if my designs are vector or not because they aren't going to Press, an online merchant that needs SVG, etc.

18 hours ago, squinx said:

I do notice for some reason my pens are different, I don't think the top 2 are vector, I would imagine it's the ones called simple? For open and closed curves - not sure the difference - closed for shapemaking?

First, I've messed around with all my brushes, so they may look a bit different, may be in different order, and I've modified some of them, so that may explain some of it.

As far as I can tell, there is really only one true vector brush (I may be mistaken). That's a solid line brush (you set the width). All the other "true vector brushes" seem to be variations on that one brush. Solid with Pen Pressure is a solid brush, edited to allow for size variation. Solid with Pen Pressure and Opacity is also a solid brush edited to allow for both size and opacity variation (mainly when using a pressure sensitive tablet). You can also edit the Pressure Graph in the Strokes Panel to vary the size, or use the Line Width Tool (shortcut- W). And you can vary opacity using the Transparency Tool or the Gradient Tool in the Tools Panel, though it is a somewhat different effect from setting opacity variance in the brush itself. All those legacy Basic Brushes were just variations on the solid brush (changing stroke width, size variation and/or opacity variation). If you want to have those brushes, you can create them yourself by duplicating a solid brush, editing your duplicate (double click on the brush in the Brushes Panel to open the edit window), then modifying the parameters and saving them, preferably to a category of your own that you create. (or download the Version 1 legacy Basic brushes using the link Walt provided previously)

Brushes can be designed for use on Open or Closed shapes. I'm not that knowledgeable on how the closed curves are created. The test_document.afdesign (attached) shows the difference. Below is a screenshot, but the afdesign file has the actual vector and raster objects for your inspection. Using a Light Charcoal open brush on the rectangle below leaves a bit of an ugly artifact in one corner where the "start" and "end" of the curve join together. The closed curve version is neater and cleaner. It's all in how they were created and saved.

18 hours ago, squinx said:

I find it curious that when I select the stroke, it doesn't highlight the brush or stroke information - this is one reason I get frustrated - I will find a brush I like or used, but I can't get back to it, because the system doesn't identify it after the fact, as far as I can tell. Unless I am missing something, I think that would be a super useful feature.

As far as revisiting which vector brush was used, you can do this (if there's a better way, someone please comment and share). In the attached test document, I created a bunch of lines using the vector brush tool, each using a different brush from the Affinity supplied Pen Category. To find out which vector (or pseudo-vector brush) was used, select the stroke with your Move Tool. Then, click on the Vector Brush Tool in the tools panel while that object is selected. The brush currently assigned to that stroke will be displayed in the Brushes Panel. Not overly convenient, but it works, and shows you which brush is used on a given stroke. There may be a better, faster and easier way, but if so, I don't know it.

Here is a great tutorial on using and creating vector brushes worth watching.

test document.afdesign

[squinx]

@Ldina thank you again! I really appreciate you helping me understand and the files you made are so helpful

Quote

To find out which vector (or pseudo-vector brush) was used, select the stroke with your Move Tool. Then, click on the Vector Brush Tool in the tools panel while that object is selected. The brush currently assigned to that stroke will be displayed in the Brushes Panel. 

I don't know how I missed this but indeed it appears to be true!

I do use a surface book and really appreciate the pressure feature. I have downloaded the legacy basic brushes and look forward to using this new approach to create the true vector files I need. In the meantime your example files are helpful, particularly for open and closed brushes = I was trying to create a brush that closed without the gap but I think the video should help.

[Ldina]

21 hours ago, squinx said:

I was trying to create a brush that closed without the gap but I think the video should help.

I'm glad this has been helpful. I've had to learn a few new things myself to answer some of your questions, so it's been good for me too. Here's an explanation that might help. (just bear in mind any brush made from a PNG file will be a pixel-based brush and not a true vector brush.) The Light Charcoal brushes below are examples of pixel-based "vector" brushes.