APub places pinned group on a different page from the pin, and at the wrong height

[Felix Kasza]

This was a post in the "Desktop Questions" forum and had no takers. After further experiments, I am fairly certain that this is a bug. My Publisher version is 2.5.5.2636:

Hi, it's me again! And I think I need to set up some fake accounts, this is getting to be embarrassing. :))

(The file with the repro is attached below, as usual.)

I added a new picture frame and text box, grouped them (group "14" below), pasted them approximately where they belong, pinned them there. Here is the layer stack and what the page looks like:

  

Here are the pin and text wrap settings:

  

So far, so good. When I move the pin where I want it, that is, to the first letter of the first line of the text paragraph, this happens:

  

"Inside right relative to column" and "inside top relative to line + 1 mm" is not where the groiup has ended up. Also, I wonder why my group "14" now shows up under "Body-left"; the pin certainly still is in the Body-right frame.

But wait, I thought, maybe this is something with a master applied to each page of the spread separately? In the Pages panel, I selected the last two spreads, right-clicked, "Apply master…", and Publisher silently died. "Oh well, never mind!", to quote SNL’s Emily Litella.

So let me move the pin a little lower, to the words "vertical lines" in the second line of the text para after heading 3.4:

So we are back on the correct side of the spread, but the vertical position has been rounded up. Way up. The pin settings are still as they should be (float, inside top, line, 1 mm offset). I wonder: what happens if I were to move the pin another line or two down?

Ah. That works!

The entire thing is highly dependent of where on the page we are. If I change the "Body" style leading to, say, 125%. the text is flowed differently, the pin is no longer close to the top of the page, and it all works. The same if I delete or insert a paragraph such that my test text and test pin slide farther down the page.

At this point I doubt that it is an error on my part. I would love for it to be my fault, but right now, I can see no logical reason why the formatter/layouter in APub would behave this way.

 

Cheers,
Felix.

Statistics with the TI-Nspire CX-II.afpub

 

Statistics with the TI-Nspire CX-II.afpub

[MikeTO]

I can't duplicate this on my system even with the correct font installed but we've seen this before and it's related to the Flow Options for Heading 2.

You have selected prevent widows, prevent orphans, keep paragraph together, and keep with next 3 lines. This won't fix the issue, but FYI you don't need to select widows and orphans if you are also selecting keep paragraph together, those are redundant because keeping the paragraph together will avoid all widows and orphans.

The issue is you've instructed Publisher to keep the heading together with the first 3 lines of the next paragraph, a normal configuration but one that has problems with pinned images. When you move the pin to the first line following the heading, you are instructing Publisher to try to fit the pinned image with the heading and first three lines. Before rendering anything, Publisher tests to see if the heading on the left page will fit. The heading has keep with next set to 3 so it also tests to see if those 3 lines will fit. The first character of the first line is your pin so it tries to fit the pinned image on the left page. As you've shown in your screenshot, it will fit but doing so will push the heading to the right page. Publisher should then move the heading and image to the right page before anything is rendered to the screen. This is where the bug is, on your machine, Publisher has decided to leave the image on the left page even after pushing the heading to the right page.

You should be able to work around the issue by positioning the pin in the 4th line of text but I can't test it to see if that solves it since it works fine on my computer.

Good luck

[Felix Kasza]

8 minutes ago, MikeTO said:

You should be able to work around the issue by positioning the pin in the 4th line of text but I can't test it to see if that solves it since it works fine on my computer.

That must have been the easiest and quickest workaround I ever put in place – move the pin to line 4, leave it there, and it’s off to the races.

Running the risk of counding like a broken record, I am once again deeply obliged to you!

Cheers and a million thanks,
Felix.

[Meliora spero]

A condensed bullet-point version:

• Issue relates to Flow Options for Heading 2 in Publisher.
• Selected options: prevent widows, prevent orphans, keep paragraph together, and keep with next 3 lines.
  • Note: "Keep paragraph together" makes "prevent widows/orphans" redundant.
• Problem:
  • Pinning the image to the first line after the heading causes Publisher to fit the image with the heading and 3 lines.
  • If it doesn’t fit, the heading moves to the right page, but the image stays on the left - this is the bug.
• Workaround: Pin the image to the 4th line of text.

[Meliora spero]

OK, interesting and desperate workaround, but it doesn’t work in my current document, no matter the line. Unfortunately, I can’t share the document, but I might find a shareable one as I experience this issue frequently.

[Meliora spero]

It’s a nasty and mean bug, isn’t it? If I insert a line break in a heading, the pinned object moves correctly with the heading. However, if I apply "keep with next 3 lines" as the only flow setting, the heading moves to the next page, leaving the pinned object incorrectly positioned, and the workaround doesn’t fix it.

This is quite a critical bug. It’s completely impossible to work with in a serious manner.

[MikeTO]

If you select "Keep Paragraph Together", do not select widows and orphans - they are redundant. I don't know why the user interface is designed the way it is but these settings should be mutually exclusive. I do not recommend selecting them at the same time because there could be unanticipated consequences.

Without a screenshot I don't think any of us are going to be able to help but I think the outcome, the pin and the object on different pages, can't be entirely avoided until this bug is fixed.

[Meliora spero]

Thanks Mike, but unfortunately that doesn't work. I tried several combinations, and the only thing that worked was forcing a page break before the heading paragraph, but page breaks are not a solution. It is indeed a bug I can't work around until fixed. I also don't want many workaround pin hacks floating around the document. It is not a professional or sustainable way to keep the original publication stored. Also, I can only work with complex documents if the software works for me with automation, not if I have to work for the software by navigating around all the countless bugs and quirks.

It is, as mentioned, a bug that sucks. A showstopper. I didn’t get very far with this document in Publisher, so I’ll have to move it over to InDesign on another computer at work. One less use case for Affinity Publisher.

I wonder how long Serif and Canva think this bug can remain live. Sigh. I don't even know if they have logged it.

Thanks anyway! 🙂

[MikeTO]

FYI it has worked this way for years so I wouldn't expect a quick fix.

I avoid using the float feature and instead use inline as much as possible. Inline works 100% correctly.

Funnily enough, while InDesign might handle float properly, it doesn't always handle inline properly, which is the reason I chose to use Affinity over InDesign