Arial as standard font? NO!

[JoJu]

I know it's no bug, but I also know I cannot slap the person responsible for choosing this ugly Arial font as default font in the face. On a Mac is the genuine Helvetica available so pleeeeease give me a decent font rather than a bad copy of it as default. Every time I start up an Affinity app like Designer or Publisher I face an anger attack, completely needless.

Or, if you want to be extra nice, tell me how I can change this stupid font as default once and forever.

[loukash]

Bin ganz deiner Meinung!  

Be aware though that you can change your defaults to fit your workflow. My default font of choice is now Menlo.
However, it can be a bit of p.i.t.a. to set up. I still don't remember the exact steps to make it work, but eventually I somehow made it work…

[loukash]

https://affinity.help/publisher2/en-US.lproj/pages/ObjectControl/objectDefaults.html

[MikeTO]

I believe Serif chose Arial because it's good for the apps to have the same defaults on Mac and Windows. Adobe does the same, except they chose Minion Pro. Affinity doesn't come bundled with fonts so Serif's had to choose from a limited selection of fonts.

To change the default font, you must change it separately for both the Frame Text and Art Text tools, and you must do it for all three applications, so six settings. I've provided instructions on how to do this in my Publisher manual - there's a trick to it because you must select the font family a second time even though it's already selected. And after doing it you should edit the default text styles so they use your selected font and not Arial. My manual also includes steps on how to do that, too. Refer to the Getting Started chapter.

Good luck.

[kenmcd]

14 hours ago, JoJu said:

On a Mac is the genuine Helvetica available so pleeeeease give me a decent font rather than a bad copy of it as default.

Not cross-platform compatible.
Sabotaged by Apple with bad check-sums.
(so other OSs see it as broken and will not install it)
It is an Apple AAT font, not standard OpenType.
So there are no "features" available in Affinity.
No kerning in the legacy kern table.
No kerning in the GPOS table - because there is no GPOS table (old TrueType font).
So... Zero kerning. None. Nada. Zip.
Top quality font. <roll-eyes>
Definitely going to create some top-quality documents with that font.

Genuine Apple junk only provided for old compatibility issues.

Arial is cross-platform and has all its OpenType features available.
 

[JoJu]

Always refreshing, these Windows trolls... 🙄 

[JoJu]

Thank you Loukash and MikeTO, I'll give it a try. Does the change remain constant or do I need to repeat it for each new version?

[MikeTO]

4 hours ago, JoJu said:

Thank you Loukash and MikeTO, I'll give it a try. Does the change remain constant or do I need to repeat it for each new version?

If you set the default, it will remain until you change the defaults yourself or start Affinity with Ctrl held down and select Clear User Defaults.

Edited August 23, 2024 by MikeTO
corrected typo

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, MikeTO said:

it will remain until you change the defaults yourself start with Ctrl held down and select Clear User Defaults.

How about Edit > Defaults > Factory Reset? That should be specific to object defaults, but I think Clear User Defaults will affect more items than that (Tool defaults that are remembered, possibly window positions, etc.)

[loukash]

Speaking of Arial, it can cause me literally physical pain when I'm looking at it printed on paper.
And boy, was I angry when one of my former clients decided to change their corporate identity and forced me to use Georgia (which is alright) and Arial (ouch!) for the brochures I laid out for them, replacing Helvetica Neue.

But…

There are instances when Arial is hard to beat in terms of readability, and that's when it's used at small sizes on a computer display. After all, essentially that's what it was originally designed and optimized for. For example, I do some FileMaker programming every now and then: Arial 9pt is perfect for UI labels, and Arial 11pt for text fields, easily readable on any of my 15" MacBooks. And yes, of course at first I tried Helvetica et al; Arial just works better in those situations, no matter how hard I tried…

[MikeTO]

2 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

How about Edit > Defaults > Factory Reset? That should be specific to object defaults, but I think Clear User Defaults will affect more items than that (Tool defaults that are remembered, possibly window positions, etc.)

Factory Reset actually resets all text and object attributes.

I actually included that in my reply but deleted it before posting because I thought I had written too much, as always. But while shortening it I also lost a couple of words and my reply didn't make sense so I've corrected it.

[JoJu]

7 hours ago, loukash said:

Speaking of Arial, it can cause me literally physical pain when I'm looking at it printed on paper.

That happens to me, too.

7 hours ago, loukash said:

Arial 9pt is perfect for UI labels, and Arial 11pt for text fields, easily readable on any of my 15" MacBooks.

Good, but they have high resolution screens. I'm not sure how widespread these pixel densities are. And I'm also not sure about  the readabilities of fonts this size in standard distance of reader and screen. Not everybody likes to work in latte-glass distance 😁 Nonetheless, even Windows itself uses Segoe or Calibri these days. And at my age and after 35 years working with computers, the definition of "easily readable" does not contain 9 pt text-sizes – that is used to hide EULA content, cookie-usage or other user disturbing stuff 😎 at best light grey.

Fun aside, I understand your use case, but I also see it as very specific and a default font should not cause physical pain or scream attacks when starting an app. Plus, what's the point in forcing Mac users to lousy standards responsible for Crowd Strike failures?

[loukash]

1 hour ago, JoJu said:

they have high resolution screens

That includes my trusty old pre-Retina MBP 2008 as well. In fact, my ambivalent relationship with Arial goes as far back as a purple iMac DV 400, back in 2000…  

1 hour ago, JoJu said:

35 years working with computers

Yeah, same here. For example, my main computer 1994–1998 was my then-flatmate's PowerBook 140 with a monochrome display and a whopping 40 MB hard drive. It could run PageMaker 4 though, so I was happy with it.

1 hour ago, JoJu said:

the definition of "easily readable" does not contain 9 pt text-sizes

It depends on the glasses: 
For reading and for computer work, currently I've recycled the spectacles I was wearing when I was like 12-13, i.e. 45 years ago. (I replaced the frames, of course…) They just work nicely for distances around 50–70 cm. 

1 hour ago, JoJu said:

your use case

I've posted this screenshot a few years ago in another context on this forum, but here it is, Arial in one of my FM databases in action:

With Helvetica – or any other sans serif font for that matter – it just didn't work for me the way I wanted it.
The core of this database is over 25 years old. In fact, one of my archived early versions was created on 19 August 1999…

~~~

Back on topic:

Hey, it could have been worse!

Comic Sans, anyone?  

[loukash]

4 minutes ago, loukash said:

Arial in one of my FM databases in action

P.S.

Of course, I'm not using Arial for PDF export or printing! Hey, I'm not that weird. It's just for the display layout.

[JoJu]

1 hour ago, loukash said:

It depends on the glasses: 
For reading and for computer work, currently I've recycled the spectacles I was wearing when I was like 12-13, i.e. 45 years ago. (I replaced the frames, of course…) They just work nicely for distances around 50–70 cm

Maybe I then should dive in my spectacles museum . And expect every user to have a collection of some sort of reading aid... 🤓 noooo, there must be a reason for user rhymes on loser. 🤣

You didn't mention "Arial 9 pt and CAPITALS..." else t and i and f and l or 1... all the same, who cares? 🥳

[fde101]

Who actually uses default fonts for serious page layout or design work?

It's actually to your benefit if you don't like the defaults: it is that much more obvious that you still need to change them.

[Old Bruce]

Just now, fde101 said:

Who actually uses default fonts for serious page layout work?

I have changed my default font to be Courier for [No Style], because it is so obviously not what I want and I will quickly set up and/or apply proper Text Styles.

[JoJu]

14 minutes ago, fde101 said:

Who actually uses default fonts for serious page layout or design work?

Who wants to become annoyed about an ugly font every time I start up any Affinity app?

 

14 minutes ago, fde101 said:

It's actually to your benefit if you don't like the defaults:

No, it's not. That is as if you enter a restaurant and first thing happens after sitting down is the waiter coming and emptying the kitchen waste bucket over your head. Just to remind you, the food will taste better than the scraps. Nobody needs that.

[loukash]

6 hours ago, JoJu said:

You didn't mention "Arial 9 pt and CAPITALS..." else t and i and f and l or 1... all the same, who cares? 🥳

Haha, touché!
Well, that's the beauty of understanding the subject of typography, isn't it? 

[JoJu]

On 8/22/2024 at 8:43 PM, MikeTO said:

To change the default font, you must change it separately for both the Frame Text and Art Text tools, and you must do it for all three applications, so six settings. I've provided instructions on how to do this in my Publisher manual - there's a trick to it because you must select the font family a second time even though it's already selected. And after doing it you should edit the default text styles so they use your selected font and not Arial. My manual also includes steps on how to do that, too. Refer to the Getting Started chapter.

No success, Arial remains the standard font. I tried to follow every step - which is a bit complicated as my Mac is set up in German and sometimes I'm not sure what you're talking about. Honestly, I miss screenshots! No matter what I do and how often I choose the font family: after saving the text style as new standard and opening a new designer, photo or publisher document, Arial remains on the throne. I think, I'd need more understanding of publisher's workflow and basics and I also believe there might be just a small setting or two different in my Affinity suite to yours and soon the whole process of setting a better font as default is about to fail. Apparently it is not simple enough for me and needs DTP experts to get around.

My workaround now is, using the test document I saved out of Publisher and importing text styles from there in any new ASh, ADe or APu doc. After that Arial is still ugly to look at first but selecting the text tool and choose one of the styles is easier. Problem is the [Kein Stil] (=[no style]????) paragraph, which completely ignores the settings of Grundlage (=basic?). There's no such thing as "no style" if a default font is preselected, this makes also style.

I have to say, I'm rather disappointed of Affinity. This default font is such a basic thing, and according to your post one has to work with tricks to get a simple default change done.

[MikeTO]

1 minute ago, JoJu said:

No success, Arial remains the standard font. I tried to follow every step - which is a bit complicated as my Mac is set up in German and sometimes I'm not sure what you're talking about. Honestly, I miss screenshots! No matter what I do and how often I choose the font family: after saving the text style as new standard and opening a new designer, photo or publisher document, Arial remains on the throne. I think, I'd need more understanding of publisher's workflow and basics and I also believe there might be just a small setting or two different in my Affinity suite to yours and soon the whole process of setting a better font as default is about to fail. Apparently it is not simple enough for me and needs DTP experts to get around.

My workaround now is, using the test document I saved out of Publisher and importing text styles from there in any new ASh, ADe or APu doc. After that Arial is still ugly to look at first but selecting the text tool and choose one of the styles is easier. Problem is the [Kein Stil] (=[no style]????) paragraph, which completely ignores the settings of Grundlage (=basic?). There's no such thing as "no style" if a default font is preselected, this makes also style.

...

I have to say, I'm rather disappointed of Affinity. This default font is such a basic thing, and according to your post one has to work with tricks to get a simple default change done.

Editing the default text styles will not change the default font.

To change the default font

1. Create a temporary new document; its settings are unimportant because it will be deleted when you’re done.
2. Choose the Frame Text tool.
3. Select the desired font.
4. Choose the Artistic Text tool.
5. The desired font will already be selected. You must select it again by clicking the list once to open it and a second time to select it.
6. Choose Edit > Defaults > Save to save the session defaults as Publisher’s new defaults. You can now close the temporary document.

[fde101]

On 8/23/2024 at 5:35 AM, loukash said:

Hey, it could have been worse!

Comic Sans, anyone?  

Wingdings?

[JoJu]

THANK YOU! 

The important part was "choose the ... tool" – not "use the ... tool"

The other important part was to not use the "Text > Textstyle > Save Textstyles as Standard" command. Bad reading from my side, sorry.

[JoJu]

6 minutes ago, fde101 said:

On 8/23/2024 at 11:35 AM, loukash said:

Hey, it could have been worse!

Comic Sans, anyone?  

Wingdings?

Times New Roman rules...