Smoothing edges?

[nickbatz]

Typically I'd probably use the Brush or Clone Brush to get rid of stairstepping like this (leaving aside that I want it in this specific case). Or maybe I'd use the blur tool - there are several ways.

But is there a way - even using another program - to smooth all jagged edges within a selection, sort of like a very extreme Refine command? My application is different from most people's, but it's something I'd use all the time.

TIA

[thomaso]

Do I understand right that you want to do the selection manually but the smoothing with 1 click (no brush painting)? If yes, I would use the Flood Fill Tool with an average fill colour and a suitable blend mode.

[nickbatz]

That's definitely one way of doing it, but it's still a manual operation and there are other methods that can do a more elegant job (and that aren't really any slower, since you still have to make the selection manually).

I want to make a bigger selection, go abacadabra, and have every stepped line or border within the selection turn into a smooth one. You'd think that a program like Gigapixel AI would be able to do that, but... well, for people who are taking pictures of birds I'm sure it's great, but for what I do it's not much use.

[user_0815]

Just a wild guess… how about the feature Find Edges? If that selects edges then you could try to grow or blur the selection apply the restore command via menu. Not sure though if that’s possible. 

[nickbatz]

20 minutes ago, user_0815 said:

Just a wild guess… how about the feature Find Edges? If that selects edges then you could try to grow or blur the selection apply the restore command via menu. Not sure though if that’s possible. 

See, this is why I post here. I didn't know about that feature and will check it out later today.

Thanks!

[nickbatz]

Find Edges is an interesting effect - and it turns out I have played with it before - but unfortunately it doesn't work for this.

[thomaso]

On 8/17/2024 at 8:12 PM, nickbatz said:

smooth all jagged edges within a selection

On 8/18/2024 at 12:48 AM, nickbatz said:

I want to make a bigger selection, go abacadabra, and have every stepped line or border within the selection turn into a smooth one.

You seem to want a largely automated process, from selection to smoothing, – not the smoothing only (as I thought from your initial post)?

Since 'Find Edges' doesn't work for you (probably because it finds any edge, regardless of jagged or not): How would you distinguish / describe / define for an automatic process "all jagged edges" that should get smoothened from those edges that should not be affected?

[nickbatz]

2 hours ago, thomaso said:

You seem to want a largely automated process, from selection to smoothing, – not the smoothing only (as I thought from your initial post)?

Since 'Find Edges' doesn't work for you (probably because it finds any edge, regardless of jagged or not): How would you distinguish / describe / define for an automatic process "all jagged edges" that should get smoothened from those edges that should not be affected?

If the entire brick wall is the selection, then all the edges inside the selection would be smoothed.

[thomaso]

27 minutes ago, nickbatz said:

If the entire brick wall is the selection, then all the edges inside the selection would be smoothed.

Ah, then I don't understand your goal, I had expected in your example just the 4-5 large steps at black background should be smoothed.

[nickbatz]

1 hour ago, thomaso said:

Ah, then I don't understand your goal, I had expected in your example just the 4-5 large steps at black background should be smoothed.

That's because you use Affinity Photo the way normal people do - to edit photographs. I use it for abstract art.

[thomaso]

1 hour ago, nickbatz said:

That's because you use Affinity Photo the way normal people do - to edit photographs. I use it for abstract art.

I think it's more because you originally described the goal as "get rid of stairstepping". If you want to get an automatic selection for your goal you need to define the relevant areas more precise. The algorithm should be enabled to know that you want to smooth in your example the steps at their upper edge only, but in the brick wall image the entire wall. How gets this goal defined for an automatism?

If the "stairstepping" is the result of upsampling, it might be easier to avoid the steps when upscaling rather than to get them corrected afterward. You mentioned Gigapixel AI, this tool seems to be able to avoid (~ smooth) the steps when upscaling (... but not to remove them after scaling). However, this blurs the edge. –I assume you don't want it blurry but clear, something like in the 'painted' example above, correct?

[nickbatz]

All I'm asking about is whether there's something like the Refine process that recognizes jagged lines and makes them curves, either in Affinity Photo or another program.

Probably not. Thank you. The end.

[thomaso]

1 hour ago, nickbatz said:

process that recognizes jagged lines

In a digital image with its grid of horizontally & vertically arranged pixels, there will usually be always jagged lines where a subject/detail in the image is meant to show a round shape and is different from mere vertical/horizontal edges.

Obviously, an initial and the current image resolution is relevant in deciding which edges to smooth (curve, round, blur, …?), what to exclude and where horizontal/vertical lines may/shall become jagged lines instead to make a particular subject/detail looking less 'technical' ('rounder', more 'organic', 'natural', …).

For concrete, known topics, the automation you want may be possible with AI, ... for the "abstract art" you mentioned as your goal, the right selection of jaggy lines for rounding may be more of a coincidence or lead to undesirable results if it combines (re-shapes) areas that should remain separate from an artistic point of view.

[nickbatz]

It isn't available in Gigapixel AI, that's for sure. 

And yes, of course you'd need some parameter settings. As I said, this is close to what Refine does already.

[thomaso]

1 hour ago, nickbatz said:

It isn't available in Gigapixel AI, that's for sure. 

Isn't it? – It appears Gigapixel AI can do it – but it smoothens via resampling (adding pixels, not 're-painting' edges in identical image size) and either globally at all edges & in each direction ('blur', as shown in this example above) or for structures/objects that are 'known' to the AI, like 'hair/fur/feathers' for instance, as in this example by Topaz:

1 hour ago, nickbatz said:

And yes, of course you'd need some parameter settings. As I said, this is close to what Refine does already.

Does "Refine" work indeed automatically? In my impression it just offers tools for manual editing of a selection via brush painting or slider moving. But you desire / asked for magic automatism:

On 8/18/2024 at 12:48 AM, nickbatz said:

That's definitely one way of doing it, but it's still a manual operation and there are other methods that can do a more elegant job (and that aren't really any slower, since you still have to make the selection manually).

I want to make a bigger selection, go abacadabra, and have every stepped line or border within the selection turn into a smooth one.

It might be possible via AI only but then rather not for your "abstract art" since there is no generally valid definition of the relevant edges for abstract, for non-representational image motifs.

If I understand right, the selection quality (position and limitation) is one major task for your goal while smoothing is a entirely separate one. And I think you want to avoid upscaling/upsampling but would prefer repainting of edges with same image size, similar to this initial example but, if not with fill colour, maybe with a smudge brush along the edge.

[nickbatz]

Gigapixel works if you're taking pictures of ducks or something it recognizes, which makes it useless for what I do. I have an old version of it, but I don't use it.

It shouldn't need AI to do this, it just needs to know what constitutes a jagged edge - again, just like Refine does, only for lines rather than the edges of a selection.

Anyway, the feature I'm looking for doesn't seem to exist, so it's moot. There are other ways to accomplish the same thing. They just take some work, but it's not a big deal.

[R C-R]

55 minutes ago, nickbatz said:

It shouldn't need AI to do this, it just needs to know what constitutes a jagged edge - again, just like Refine does, only for lines rather than the edges of a selection.

Refine works by detecting color/contrast differences between adjacent pixels along the edges of 'marching ants' pixel selections. It has no way of knowing if a line should be jagged or smooth.

[firstdefence]

I'm surprised nobody has suggested the Smudge tool...

Ooh! I have lol!

[nickbatz]

33 minutes ago, firstdefence said:

I'm surprised nobody has suggested the Smudge tool...

Ooh! I have lol!

There are lots of ways to do it, as I said in the first post, but yeah, that's a good one.

[thomaso]

52 minutes ago, firstdefence said:

I'm surprised nobody has suggested the Smudge tool...

I am surprised you haven't noticed it. Lol?

17 hours ago, thomaso said:

similar to this initial example but, if not with fill colour, maybe with a smudge brush along the edge.

[firstdefence]

I've just received a letter from Specsavers too, I didn't see that coming either lol! 

 

[R C-R]

23 minutes ago, firstdefence said:

I've just received a letter from Specsavers too, I didn't see that coming either lol! 

My optometrist informed me I was developing color blindness. I didn't see that coming either. It hit me out of the purple. 😆