Issue creating guides after changing pages

[MikeTO]

Publisher can get confused about which page is active when creating guides.

1. Create a new document - it doesn't matter if it's facing pages but I'll use non-facing pages for this example
2. Add another spread
3. Show Rulers
4. Change to page 1 by double-clicking the page thumbnail in the Pages panel
5. Drag a guide out of the rulers - it works fine
6. Change to page 2 by double-clicking the page thumbnail in the Pages panel
7. Change back to page 1 by scrolling up and single-clicking the page background - you really are on page 1 as indicated by the status bar at the bottom of the screen.
8. Drag a guide out of the rulers - it will be added to page 2 even though you're on page 1.
9. Choose View > Guides... - it will show you the guide on page 2 and not the one on page 1. Add a new guide - it will be added to page 2.

[Old Bruce]

Seems to be true as long as there is nothing on the pages. I used a Page Number on an applied to all pages Master page and the guides seemed to work properly. Didn't seem to matter how many pages I had or how far I scrolled, with nothing in/on the pages the guide would be on the "wrong" page. So something is happening wrongly at step 7.

[MikeTO]

40 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

Seems to be true as long as there is nothing on the pages. I used a Page Number on an applied to all pages Master page and the guides seemed to work properly. Didn't seem to matter how many pages I had or how far I scrolled, with nothing in/on the pages the guide would be on the "wrong" page. So something is happening wrongly at step 7.

It happens even with objects on the page. I just tried it again and duplicated that.

[Hangman]

The issue appears to be that regardless of the page shown in the status bar, the page highlighted in the pages panel or the layers shown in the layers panel, a page is only truly 'selected' either by double-clicking the page thumbnail in the Pages panel or by selecting an object on that page...

This means it is perfectly possible to scroll from page 100 to page 1, click on the page 1 background, drag a horizontal guide to page 1 and it will appear on page 100. You can also Alt-Click the guide 'position' on page 1 to delete the guide on page 100...

The issue affects vertical guides as well albeit in a slightly different way and the same behaviour exists on Windows...

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, Hangman said:

This means it is perfectly possible to scroll from page 100 to page 1

That does not, of course, actually make page 1 the "active" (current) page, and this is true for many more functions than dragging Guides.

1 hour ago, Hangman said:

regardless of the page shown in the status bar, the page highlighted in the pages panel or the layers shown in the layers panel, a page is only truly 'selected' either by double-clicking the page thumbnail in the Pages panel or by selecting an object on that page...

The current page is always shown in the Status Bar, and by the Gray highlight around it in the Pages panel. Merely scrolling in the document view does not change the page that is current.

Having said that, though. If I have pages 10,11 "current" as shown by the Gray highlight in the Pages panel and by the status bar, and I scroll in the document view to page 1, and drag a Guide onto the page (2.5.3, macOS), for me page 1 becomes current and appears in the Status Bar, and has a Gray highlight in the Pages panel. And the Guide is on page 1.

[MikeTO]

@Hangman When you single click a page to select it, the page thumbnail is shown as selected in the Pages panel and the page number changes in the navigation controls. The Layers panel shows the layers on that page. The Navigator panel shows the new page. The Document > Add Pages and Delete Pages will default to the new page number. The Next/Previous Page commands will be based on the new page number.

It's just guides.* With guides, you can tell it's not working properly if you have the rulers visible. When you single click a page in the document window, the new page and its guides will be shown but the rulers will still show the tick marks for the previous page instead of the new page's tick marks.

* I did a thorough test and found that the relatively new Previously Viewed Page command also isn't aware that the page has changed.

[Hangman]

6 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

That does not, of course, actually make page 1 the "active" (current) page, and this is true for many more functions than dragging Guides.

I've edited my post to read "This means it is perfectly possible to scroll from page 100 to page 1, click on the page 1 background, drag a horizontal guide to page 1 and it will appear on page 100." which is what I meant to say...

[walt.farrell]

4 minutes ago, MikeTO said:

I did a thorough test and found that the relatively new Previously Viewed Page command also isn't aware that the page has changed.

That should depend on exactly how the page was "changed". Merely scrolling in the workspace would not change what page was being viewed, nor affect what was the "current" nor "previously viewed" pages as far as I know.

[walt.farrell]

1 minute ago, Hangman said:

I've edited my post to read "This means it is perfectly possible to scroll from page 100 to page 1, click on the page 1 background, drag a horizontal guide to page 1 and it will appear on page 100." which is what I meant to say...

Thanks, but if I start with page 11 as current (Status Bar, Gray highlight in Pages panel) and scroll up the workspace to page 1, and click on the background of page 1, it becomes current (Status Bar, Gray highlight). maccOS, Publisher 2.5.3.

So if that's not happening for you, something odd is going on. What is on page 1, where you are clicking on the background?

[Hangman]

13 minutes ago, MikeTO said:

I did a thorough test and found that the relatively new Previously Viewed Page command also isn't aware that the page has changed.

It changes to the correct page number in the status bar but it doesn't change the page in the viewport assuming the page background on the respective page has been clicked...

[Hangman]

9 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

So if that's not happening for you, something odd is going on. What is on page 1, where you are clicking on the background?

Did you not watch the screen recording...

9 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Where you are clicking on the background?

You can click the physical page background or the pasteboard to the left or right of the page it doesn't matter...

[MikeTO]

15 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

That should depend on exactly how the page was "changed". Merely scrolling in the workspace would not change what page was being viewed, nor affect what was the "current" nor "previously viewed" pages as far as I know.

I understand that if you scroll pages you are not changing the active page. But if you scroll pages and click on a page, the active page is changed. In this case, the Previously Viewed Page command does not work.

[Hangman]

5 minutes ago, MikeTO said:

I understand that if you scroll pages you are not changing the active page. But if you scroll pages and click on a page, the active page is changed. In this case, the Previously Viewed Page command does not work.

Exactly...

[MikeTO]

I can't duplicate the issue with Previously Viewed Page now. I was going to write it up as a separate bug but I've tested it rather thoroughly and can't get it to happen again. I'm either missing another step or I was simply confused.

[Hangman]

1 minute ago, MikeTO said:

I can't duplicate the issue with Previously Viewed Page now. I was going to write it up as a separate bug but I've tested it rather thoroughly and can't get it to happen again. I'm either missing another step or I was simply confused.

See the screen recording above...

[walt.farrell]

39 minutes ago, Hangman said:

Did you not watch the screen recording...

Yes.

40 minutes ago, Hangman said:

You can click the physical page background or the pasteboard to the left or right of the page it doesn't matter...

I would not expect clicking the pasteboard to matter.

Clicking on the page works for me, but if it's not working for you it may depend on "what is on the page?" as I asked. For example, if you happened to click on something that is not selectable by clicking (something locked, or on a Master Page), then I would not expect it to change the current page.

[Hangman]

6 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Clicking on the page works for me, but if it's not working for you it may depend on "what is on the page?" as I asked. For example, if you happened to click on something that is not selectable by clicking (something locked, or on a Master Page), then I would not expect it to change the current page.

It makes no difference if all pages are completely blank, the guides don't respect the page shown as selected in the status bar and with the grey outline in the pages panel...

It would be helpful if you could upload a quick screen recording so we can see what you're seeing and understand how it differs from what Mike and I are seeing.

BTW, as mentioned above, this is not Mac-specific I see the same behaviour on Windows...

11 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Clicking on the page works for me, but if it's not working for you it may depend on "what is on the page?" as I asked. For example, if you happened to click on something that is not selectable by clicking (something locked, or on a Master Page), then I would not expect it to change the current page.

I'm confused by this comment, the screen recording in the fourth post clearly shows what is on the page and what is being selected which was why I asked whether you'd watched it... I'm not clicking on anything other than either the page background or the pasteboard, both select the page or rather don't select the page but show it as the selected page in the status bar and pages panel...

There are no Master Page elements and nothing is locked on the pages...

Again, as mentioned earlier it appears as though a page is only truly selected either by double-clicking its thumbnail in the Pages panel or when an object on the respective page is selected contrary to what is shown in the status bar and Pages panel. Clicking the page background or pasteboard adjacent to the page isn't actually selecting the page...

[MikeTO]

12 minutes ago, Hangman said:

Again, as mentioned earlier it appears as though a page is only truly selected either by double-clicking its thumbnail in the Pages panel or when an object on the respective page is selected contrary to what is shown in the status bar and Pages panel. Clicking the page background or pasteboard adjacent to the page isn't actually selecting the page...

I think Serif has enough information to fix this issue with guides now, but I don't think it's accurate to state that the page is not truly selected when single clicking it in the document view. This is just a bug with guides and nothing else.

[Hangman]

26 minutes ago, MikeTO said:

I don't think it's accurate to state that the page is not truly selected when single clicking it in the document view.

Actually, in hindsight, I agree since exporting the current page does honour the page shown in the status bar...

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, Hangman said:

It would be helpful if you could upload a quick screen recording so we can see what you're seeing and understand how it differs from what Mike and I are seeing.

 

[Hangman]

Hi @walt.farrell,

Thanks for the screen recording...

One thing that would be super helpful is if you could enable Show Mouse Clicks (Cmd Shift 5) and then select it from the Options dropdown. That would allow us to see when you are making a mouse click... I don't think you needed to make any in your screen recording but...

Repeat the steps you show in your screen recording just by scrolling and add a guide to say the first four pages in your document without clicking on any of the page backgrounds, how many guides can you delete by Alt Clicking the guide?

[walt.farrell]

Here you go, @Hangman.

Note that the Guides manager shows only 1 Guide, ever, as it is for the current page.

Note, too, that though I can delete all the Guides using an Option-Click, I must:

1. Make the page Current by clicking on it (other ways probably work, too), and
2. Then clicking/dragging the mouse a bit near the Guide. I did have Show Mouse Clicks, but I don't think any were shown in this step.

Only then do I get a Guide cursor, and Option-click will delete the Guide.

 

 

 

[Hangman]

Many Thanks @walt.farrell, I'm seeing the mouse clicks now when you click the ruler to drag a guide, they weren't visible in your first screen recording...

The missing step from @MikeTO's original recipe is step 7 if we're making a like-for-like comparison which is why we're seeing the difference in behaviour but Alt Clicking to delete a guide is effectively doing the same thing though some guides can't be deleted using that method (for me at least)...

Try Alt-clicking to delete the guides from the first three pages then scroll to page 4 and see if you can add guides by dragging from the ruler...

[walt.farrell]

8 minutes ago, Hangman said:

Try Alt-clicking to delete the guides from the first three pages then scroll to page 4 and see if you can add guides by dragging from the ruler...

No problem doing that. And when I start dragging the Guide from the Ruler, page 3 shows as current, but when I drop it on page 4 then page 4 becomes current, it has 2 Guides, and the Guides manager shows both of them.

All Guides are deletable using Option-click, but as I noted above I need to make the page current, then drag the mouse a bit on the page before I can get a Guide cursor and perform the delete. Dragging a bit gives a 0 Objects Selected popup, briefly, Then I can get the Guide cursor.

[DWright]

I have logged this issue with our developers.