Please don't make AD harder to use (2.5 pencil updates)

[Eowyn Cwper]

Hello,

I'm not one to rant about things, I think that usually just doesn't spark joy. That being said, AD often feels like a software you have to fight against and I think it's worth mentioning that the 2.5 pencil update is making that worse (for me).

I'm a mapmaker, and I mainly user vector programs to draw heightmaps (i.e., to simplify, layer upon layer of curves to outline mountain ranges). This is a field where you usually need your pencil stroke to be jagged, which AD never allowed because of the smoothing which you can't disable. Maybe I'm just imagining things but the 2.5 pencil includes a "new smoothing algorithm" and it definitely feels even harder to achieve anything jagged now. I've been working on a map for weeks and being unable to disable this increased smoothing will make my work much more tedious, and details harder to implement even when zoomed in. I'm confused as to why you would make this feature stronger when it's already been pointed out by many for such a long time that the user should simply be able to turn it off.

Then there's the autoclose. This used to be a useful feature for me (although kinda buggy), but now it either makes it impossible to add detail when you're in range of the closing node (since it's going to snap to it right away), or is useless because you have to stay away from the closing node so it doesn't trigger. From now on I'll have to disable it and manually close every path, for this project anyway.  And my curves get even more smoothed out than they used to.  

I have a ton of respect for developers and the people working behind AD in general. I'm not a dev myself and I don't want to criticise beyond my level of expertise (plus some of this only applies to what *I* do). Yet it's crazy to me that so many people have to point out how difficult it can be to get simple features to work properly. Please don't make that worse.

[2ddpainter]

can recommend to take a look at VectorStyler
it has even vector effects to jagged a line even more

[Dan C]

Thanks for your feedback @Eowyn Cwper!

Although most users are enjoying the Pencil Improvements in 2.5, we understand that all users may not want to use the new smoothing algorithm - therefore there is an improvement currently logged with our team to consider adding a 'toggle' for this Pencil smoothing mode.

I will be sure to add your 'vote' to this request now. I hope this helps

[PaulEC]

Although I like the smoothing generally, there are times when it would be better not to have it. The on/off toggle is a good idea, but, even better, would be a slider to control the amount of smoothing.

[Bryan Rieger]

+1 for a slider to control the amount of smoothing applied. It would be nice to be able to vary it, rather than just have it on or off.

[loukash]

Yep, this "improvement" is likely the main reason why I'm sticking with v2.4.2 for the time being. (If desperately needed, I can still fiddle around with the 2.5 beta RC2 which is apparently identical to 2.5.0 retail)

[Eowyn Cwper]

8 hours ago, Dan C said:

Thanks for your feedback @Eowyn Cwper!

Although most users are enjoying the Pencil Improvements in 2.5, we understand that all users may not want to use the new smoothing algorithm - therefore there is an improvement currently logged with our team to consider adding a 'toggle' for this Pencil smoothing mode.

I will be sure to add your 'vote' to this request now. I hope this helps

Thank you for your response, it's appreciated. It only feels like a long overdue feature (I've seen posts from many years ago asking for it) and it's terribly frustrating to get even less leeway now. I find it hard to believe that "most" users like that.

[Frozen Death Knight]

A slider where you can go back to the old functionality and even further like making all the nodes into hard nodes would be fantastic.

[Meliora spero]

For my tasks and workflows, the change in practice is that a tool has been removed in v2.5 because Serif does not understand their customers' actual use of the programs. I hope the new usability specialist gradually forms an understanding of this, so such blunders do not happen again.

[CLMBsCrackedKnuckleP]

On 5/24/2024 at 11:39 AM, Eowyn Cwper said:

Hello,

I'm not one to rant about things, I think that usually just doesn't spark joy. That being said, AD often feels like a software you have to fight against and I think it's worth mentioning that the 2.5 pencil update is making that worse (for me).

I'm a mapmaker, and I mainly user vector programs to draw heightmaps (i.e., to simplify, layer upon layer of curves to outline mountain ranges). This is a field where you usually need your pencil stroke to be jagged, which AD never allowed because of the smoothing which you can't disable. Maybe I'm just imagining things but the 2.5 pencil includes a "new smoothing algorithm" and it definitely feels even harder to achieve anything jagged now. I've been working on a map for weeks and being unable to disable this increased smoothing will make my work much more tedious, and details harder to implement even when zoomed in. I'm confused as to why you would make this feature stronger when it's already been pointed out by many for such a long time that the user should simply be able to turn it off.

Then there's the autoclose. This used to be a useful feature for me (although kinda buggy), but now it either makes it impossible to add detail when you're in range of the closing node (since it's going to snap to it right away), or is useless because you have to stay away from the closing node so it doesn't trigger. From now on I'll have to disable it and manually close every path, for this project anyway.  And my curves get even more smoothed out than they used to.  

I have a ton of respect for developers and the people working behind AD in general. I'm not a dev myself and I don't want to criticise beyond my level of expertise (plus some of this only applies to what *I* do). Yet it's crazy to me that so many people have to point out how difficult it can be to get simple features to work properly. Please don't make that worse.

Thank you for writing this post. I'm in a very similar boat, fantasy cartography in my case, and all these points you've made are spot on. I finished the map project late last year, and I don't think I could have done it with the features that are presently being implemented. Don't get me wrong, there are several new features like the Stroke Width Tool which are amazing and I'm looking forward to using them in my work, but I would love to have the option to toggle on and off this pencil feature.

[Alfred]

55 minutes ago, CLMBsCrackedKnuckleP said:

I'm in a very similar boat, fantasy cartography in my case

Fantastic cartography! 👍

I was just about to say that I couldn’t see a boat, but then I spotted one in the Karagol Sea. 

[Eowyn Cwper]

@CLMBsCrackedKnuckleP @Alfred It's good to see some mapmaking enthusiasts here! For reference, this is what I'm working on right now:

This is a small part of the map. This was with 2.4.2 and it's an acceptable amount of smoothing, but even before the update I was working at 300% zoom to retain some of the detail, which isn't the most convenient workflow.

[CLMBsCrackedKnuckleP]

11 hours ago, Eowyn Cwper said:

@CLMBsCrackedKnuckleP @Alfred It's good to see some mapmaking enthusiasts here! For reference, this is what I'm working on right now:

This is a small part of the map. This was with 2.4.2 and it's an acceptable amount of smoothing, but even before the update I was working at 300% zoom to retain some of the detail, which isn't the most convenient workflow.

This is incredible work. I like how you managed to make your topographic transitions look so smooth.

[Eowyn Cwper]

Thank you @CLMBsCrackedKnuckleP! There's more here if you're interested. You can probably see why I need tools that don't add to the hassle haha.

[Yaoif]

On 5/24/2024 at 12:08 PM, Dan C said:

Thanks for your feedback @Eowyn Cwper!

Although most users are enjoying the Pencil Improvements in 2.5, we understand that all users may not want to use the new smoothing algorithm - therefore there is an improvement currently logged with our team to consider adding a 'toggle' for this Pencil smoothing mode.

I will be sure to add your 'vote' to this request now. I hope this helps

@Dan C  Yes, please bring back the option for the old pencil tool which allows for more detailed drawing which I believe is essential for many illustrators and designers who create detailed graphics using the pencil tool. I am a comics artist and graphic designer and I rely on the pencil tool a lot for my art works.

Please check out my comics at: https://tapas.io/series/Space-X

You can probably see I rely on the pencil tool a lot to draw details. Sometimes I feel the new pencil tool's smoothing algorithm is a bit overlapping with the smoothing options already existent with the old pencil tool. Now with the new pencil tool, I have to zoom in to add details, which is very inconvenient as I can't see the whole picture when zooming in. In my opinion, if I was going for smoother lines, I would rather use the pen tool rather than the pencil tool. Hope my explanation get across clearly. And yes, while the new pencil tool is an improvement in a way, but please don't abandon the option for the old pencil tool. Hope this problem will be solved in the later version of Affinity. For now, I think I'll stick with v2.4.  Thanks!

[CLMBsCrackedKnuckleP]

11 hours ago, Eowyn Cwper said:

Thank you @CLMBsCrackedKnuckleP! There's more here if you're interested. You can probably see why I need tools that don't add to the hassle haha.

Thank you for the link.

[Affinity Info Bot]

The issue "Allow pencil tool curve smoothing to be togglable or adjustable" (REF: APL-1712) has been fixed by the developers in the latest beta build (2.6.0.2805). The fix is planned for inclusion in the next customer release.
Customer beta builds are announced here and you can participate by following these instructions.
If you still experience this problem once you are using that build version (or later) please reply to this thread including @Affinity Info Bot to notify us.

[loukash]

Ah, rejoice! I'm still using v2.4.2 because of this!

[CLMBsCrackedKnuckleP]

24 minutes ago, Affinity Info Bot said:

The issue "Allow pencil tool curve smoothing to be togglable or adjustable" (REF: APL-1712) has been fixed by the developers in the latest beta build (2.6.0.2805). The fix is planned for inclusion in the next customer release.
Customer beta builds are announced here and you can participate by following these instructions.
If you still experience this problem once you are using that build version (or later) please reply to this thread including @Affinity Info Bot to notify us.

I'm looking forward to being able to use the app again for my project. Thanks. 

[Eowyn Cwper]

3 hours ago, CLMBsCrackedKnuckleP said:

I'm looking forward to being able to use the app again for my project. Thanks. 

Exactly. This is good news!