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Oh dear. That's going to make the one thing I need Designer for rather time-consuming. It didn't occur to me that something targeted at Freehand/Illustrator users wouldn't have linked text boxes.

 

Apart from that, super-amazing program, and it's heartening to see a serious alternative to Adobe. I'll consider my Designer purchase price a contribution towards further development, since I probably won't be using it for the reason I bought it.

 

If you have a beta program for Publisher, please let me know.

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It didn't occur to me that something targeted at Freehand/Illustrator users wouldn't have linked text boxes.

 

Curiously, although Dave Harris has stated that Publisher will need bullets and numbering and that this feature will consequently be added to the other apps, the same doesn't seem to apply to linked text boxes.

 

If you have a beta program for Publisher, please let me know.

 

A public beta test for Affinity Publisher is due either late this year or early next. I have no doubt that there will be a big fanfare accompanying its announcement here!

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Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.4.1 (iPad 7th gen)

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Curiously, although Dave Harris has stated that Publisher will need bullets and numbering and that this feature will consequently be added to the other apps, the same doesn't seem to apply to linked text boxes.

 

Not having native linked text boxes in AD is a silly choice to make. AD needs it as much or more than bullets and numbering. I hope this is reconsidered.

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Not having native linked text boxes in AD is a silly choice to make. AD needs it as much or more than bullets and numbering. I hope this is reconsidered.

It took many years for that feature to be added to Freehand & its predecessors. It isn't usually considered a "core" feature of a vector drawing app.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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It took many years for that feature to be added to Freehand & its predecessors. It isn't usually considered a "core" feature of a vector drawing app.

 

It took many years of simply convincing the powers that be for FH (I cannot remember whether it was Altsys or Aldus who added it) to add the feature. It took Adobe many years of adding some of these features into AI and they still haven't incorporated some of FH's best features.

 

Point being is that Serif doesn't need to wait years to integrate what are now core features in other vector drawing applications. They certainly have integrated some features that are fairly unique to a vector editing application that other software creators will perhaps try to emulate.

 

They might as well add other core vector editing features like this at some point. If they would like to await Publisher and roll it into AD like the above mentioned features, great. Time- and effort-wise that makes perfect sense. What doesn't make sense is not ever adding this feature into AD.

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It took years because they took the time to get it (more or less) right, so that it was easy to use, worked reliably, & did not use so many system resources that it affected the overall responsiveness of the app (much).

 

I believe Affinity will do the same, taking how ever long it takes to achieve the same goals.

 

I would not want it any other way. Would you?

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
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1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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It took years because they took the time to get it (more or less) right, so that it was easy to use, worked reliably, & did not use so many system resources that it affected the overall responsiveness of the app (much).

 

I believe Affinity will do the same, taking how ever long it takes to achieve the same goals.

 

I would not want it any other way. Would you?

 

Did I say I didn't want it any other way? I did say it needs to be ported back from Publisher once added. But that's not the issue if you bothered to read Dave's comments in the linked thread. That indicates linked text frames will not be in AD. Which I believe is wrong.

 

Speaking of silly. Your argument about not having features unless it worked reliably? I have no idea about the Mac version's stability for myself as I use a PC, which is currently RC1. But it isn't stable. I can crash it almost at will doing certain tasks (I just did).

 

As for getting it right the first time, I think even something as simple as the Preferences doesn't work well. (I write "simple" because I have written applications and preferences is the least of an application's programming difficulties.) Bleed? Yeah, we have bleed, just no chance of seeing bleed guides (half-baked). Another half-baked item? Sure, I can keep this up...what about not being able to slice something with a line? Or, how about converting something to curves? Half-done features. I could keep going.

 

So with those things in mind, I personally wouldn't mind a half-baked text threading at some point in time with AD.

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It is not realistic to expect betas to be as stable as final release, retail versions. That's why they are still betas. As for preferences, they still have to be supported by frameworks that can be very difficult to get right. I am sure you know all this.

 

Regarding Mac apps, I have worked with enough of them that have been bloated with a long list of features that progressively require more system resources & slow responsiveness to progressively less usable levels that I would mind very much if Affinity added some half baked feature did the same thing.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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There are plenty of in-release bugs and half-baked features in the Mac MAS version. But that is my point. Serif will release not-quite-ready for prime time features. It's what they have done historically.

 

And they will continue to do. The windows version upon release will contain those things that are half-baked I listed...and more. But this does not bother me. It may not fit into your ideal view of Serif. But it is reality. And as sure as I am that half-baked features will continue to be rolled in, I am also sure they will be ironed out in time.

 

Mike

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I do understand your frustration, MikeW. There are dozens of software, appliances, movies, and practically everything that is made very cheaply today, and we're the ones who pay the price. Items are not worked on hard enough before being released to the consumers. From what I've seen of Affinity from the few months I've experimented with it, I have to say I really like the way the team addresses their products compared to how other products are dealt with. Members get a fair warning that the betas are not suitable for commercial use, and the team works on the betas over and over until they feel everything is top notch. I was messaged by a staff member asking about a problem I was facing, and they were able to fix the issue when I told them in the next version. So for me anyway, I find the management is in great hands. Sure, there will always be bugs in complicated scripts, but it's great to know how determined the staff is in fixing them. That doesn't come easy today.

The website is still a work in progress. The "Comics" and "Shop" sections are not yet ready. Feel free to connect with me and let me know what you like or what can be improved. You can contact me here, on my contact page, YouTube channel, or Twitter account. Thanks and have a great day!

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Lest someone takes what I have written in a way not of my intent, let add the following:

 

Do I believe what I have written? Yep. I look at what I have written as simply realistic and true to the best of my ability to communicate. If I am in any way frustrated, it isn't with Serif. It is rather with people whom defend a status quo, or whom have a rose-colored view of Serif being the be-all. 

 

I have a certain loyalty with Serif. Not the company per se. But with the Serif employees whom inhabit this space and CP. Like family, I don't always see eye-to-eye with the decisions and I fully expect some/all of Serif's employees don't see eye-to-eye with the content of what I have written here in this thread and in past threads here and on CP. And like family who disagrees with me--or even takes offence--I don't really care.

 

In the end, this is a business relationship. I don't believe I have loyalties to any particular software (I consider myself a software agnostic with preferences), but I do have loyalties to people. I use most anything that is commercially viable for my uses whether I like the people with whom I deal with at these companies or not. As long as their software aids me in making a living or in making my life a little more enjoyable, I purchase a license.

 

As regards Serif, I will purchase a software license for AD. I like some of its capabilities. In my view it is still a bit rough around the edges and in some of its core functions (I certainly am as well). Eh, so what. I will still be using it for drawings in the whole or in conjunction with other vector creation software (and I will continue to upgrade those licenses as well).

 

However, as I have zero clients requesting I turn work back in AD format and do not foresee that happening even in the mid-term, my license purchase will not be based upon need. It will be in support of the people who make up Serif as a company in hope AD will continue to expand in its capabilities and smooth out those rough edges over time.

 

Best regards, Mike

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Mike,

 

I don't know what the Windows AD beta is like, but I don't find any of the features of the Mac retail version "half-baked." Obviously, it is not totally bug free, but I don't know of any similarly complex software that is, nor do I know of any other commercial developer that is as forthcoming about acknowledging bugs as they are discovered. That is one of the things I like most about the company.

 

Another thing I really like maybe only longtime Mac users can fully appreciate. They continue to support every version of OS X (now macOS) that they supported on day one of the initial product launch. Photoshop Elements used to be one of my "go to" apps, but I got really tired of having to buy an "upgraded" version of it (at about twice the price of an Affinity app) when I upgraded my OS because that broke the version of PSE I owned. It wasn't just that the OS upgrade triggered a few new bugs in the prior PSE version, it was that it would no longer run & Adobe had no interest in updating it so it would. Adobe is not the only company to do this.

 

Yet another thing I like is that they do not load down their apps with lots of features not directly related to their core purpose. I realize not everyone likes this -- there have been several long threads debating the pros & cons of that approach -- but I am firmly in the "less is more" camp. It makes development easier, reduces UI clutter, & probably most important for me, allows the apps to remain significantly more responsive than their heavier weight competitors.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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R C-R,

 

I am not a fan of feature bloat either. One only needs to look at Serif's Windows PagePlus to experience it in action.

 

Windows users have historically fared much better as regards new OS versions not breaking applications--I still have a client using ID CS2, a few using CS4, etc. They all still run on Windows 10 just fine. Heck, I occasionally need to port a PM6.5 job to a new layout application. It too still runs.

 

Here's something to try in AD. Create a rectangle. Drag the fill tool to create a linear gradient and change the two end stops to any color. Export using the built-in PDF/X-4 preset. It will output as vector (just wait for the Calculating to get done and you'll see it will not be output as a bitmap. You can just cancel out of the Export dialog.

 

With the rectangle still selected, choose the fill tool again if it isn't already. Slide the mid-point of the gradient a touch. Doesn't need to be much (or, you can open the gradient fill from the context bar and type in say 51 for the mid-point). Now try the export again. Now it will be rasterized.

 

To me that is a half-baked implementation--assuming that is what happens on the Mac. If not, then the above only applies to the RC1 Windows version. This has been known for many betas.

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There are plenty of in-release bugs and half-baked features in the Mac MAS version. But that is my point. Serif will release not-quite-ready for prime time features. It's what they have done historically.

 

One of the developers mentioned here recently that they used to have to work to a release deadline but that that business model has been abandoned and they no longer have fixed release dates. (Apologies to those concerned if I've paraphrased that too loosely!)

 

The 'Plus' products are available for purchase as a download or on disc; the latter option has obviously meant that Serif needed to have RTM versions of their software ready to deliver to the replicators by a certain date. The Affinity apps are only sold as downloadable products, so there isn't going to be the same inflexibility.

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Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.4.1 (iPad 7th gen)

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I am not a fan of feature bloat either.

I think it is fair to say that most people aren't. But as an ex-developer friend of mine used to quip, the problem is everybody has different ideas about which are essential features & which are bloat.

 

That is certainly true for the Affinity apps -- just look at all the diversity of feature requests that get posted to these forums. Not infrequently, someone describes one or more as essential for their work, even if the Affinity app never has been touted as intended for that type of work. For example, the tagline for Designer is "Professional graphic design software." Expecting it to be equally well suited for animation, page layout, 3D, or other kinds of work seems to me to be a bit much & something that would turn the app into the same kind of bloatware I am trying to avoid.

 

For me, bloatware is the status quo. I am pleased that Affinity offers something different.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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Here's something to try in AD. Create a rectangle. Drag the fill tool to create a linear gradient and change the two end stops to any color. Export using the built-in PDF/X-4 preset. It will output as vector (just wait for the Calculating to get done and you'll see it will not be output as a bitmap. You can just cancel out of the Export dialog.

 

May I ask if you reported this bug? While it's unfair on your part since it seems you purchased the Mac version that wasn't fully ready, at least they can address these bugs in future builds. As Alfred's post is news to me, no deadlines means more corrections.

 

One of the developers mentioned here recently that they used to have to work to a release deadline but that that business model has been abandoned and they no longer have fixed release dates. (Apologies to those concerned if I've paraphrased that too loosely!)

 

I think that is the wise thing to do. Being under the pressure with a release date can easily make room for mistakes.

 

For me, bloatware is the status quo. I am pleased that Affinity offers something different.

 

Agreed, though I do love their choice of features normally found in photo editors; the pixel tools and layer adjustments.

The website is still a work in progress. The "Comics" and "Shop" sections are not yet ready. Feel free to connect with me and let me know what you like or what can be improved. You can contact me here, on my contact page, YouTube channel, or Twitter account. Thanks and have a great day!

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the tagline for Designer is "Professional graphic design software." Expecting it to be equally well suited for animation, page layout, 3D, or other kinds of work seems to me to be a bit much

 

Your point is well taken, but in my line of work, page layout is "professional graphic design." I certainly don't expect to do a 48-page magazine in Designer, but I did hope it'd be suitable for designing a single-page magazine ad. Linked text boxes are crucial there.

 

If the Designer tagline was "professional illustration software," I'd expect only rudimentary text tools, sure.

 

I don't mean to complain; Designer is amazing and it's hardly Affinity's fault that I need something a little different. Just a little frustrated that I'm forced to stay on Yosemite just to keep CS5.5 running.

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Your point is well taken, but in my line of work, page layout is "professional graphic design."

I see your point too, but I tend to think of page layout work in very old school terms, like back when cut & paste involved scissors, X-Acto knives, paste jars, & such. Graphics, photos, & text snippets were the things you cut out & pasted on the page.  :wacko:

 

Of course, I realize that isn't the way things are done now but conceptually it seems to be one of the few workable ways to categorize a suite of apps by function that doesn't end up including everything from word processors to asset managers in one big 'do everything' app.

 

I would like to continue this conversation but I need to go do other things now. I have to hitch up the buggy & get to the dairy for some milk. Otherwise, there will be nothing for my wife to churn & we won't have any butter for dinner.  ;)

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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Um... I'm honestly not quite sure what you're getting at. Page layout used to be done manually, so therefore Designer shouldn't have linked text boxes?

 

I understand the value of avoiding feature creep & bloat. That's why I don't use Microsoft Word any more. But basic text-handling functions seem well within the scope of a graphic design program.

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  • Staff

It is appropriate...

Not as far as I'm concerned :( I hope you feel more appreciated soon.

Patrick Connor
Serif Europe Ltd

"There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man. True nobility lies in being superior to your previous self."  W. L. Sheldon

 

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