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Separate 'Power duplicate' from regular duplicate


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Here we have a problem that simply bothers me and frustrates me every single day. I have now started using copy-paste instead of duplicate to avoid the algorithms using power duplicate when I just need to duplicate something 1:1. This is the case in 99% of all instances for me, and I wonder if it's much different out there with others.

Especially on iPad, it is a disturbing and outright destructive behavior from the program's side. Why can't it just be a separate shortcut or an option/toggle on the context toolbar, rather than an invisible, mandatory algorithm repeatedly surprising me with mutated content?

Canva, consider separating it from the regular duplicate so both are accessible from the user interface, but not mixed together as now.

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35 minutes ago, Aldus said:

repeatedly surprising me with mutated content?

Can you provide more information on what is happening? I didn't think I've ever noticed anything like you seem to be experiencing.

-- Walt
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/9/2024 at 2:51 PM, walt.farrell said:

Can you provide more information on what is happening? I didn't think I've ever noticed anything like you seem to be experiencing.

It's quite simple. Right now I'm drawing a face, where many objects can be used on both sides of the face. For example, I adjust a shape for an eye or cheekbone and think, "Looks great, I'll use that on the other side of the face" and, out of decades-old routine from Adobe and many other programs, I choose the keyboard shortcut for duplicate. And what do I get? A mutated version based on the last edit.

In Affinity, I have to force myself to remember to duplicate with a keyboard shortcut and drag with the mouse to avoid power duplicate messing up my workflow. It causes even more trouble on my iPad Pro. As a creative, I need fast, uninterrupted workflows so I can create for many minutes at a time, without interrupting myself and my creative flow with clumsy features. It's like being a painter constantly interrupted by a small child.

There will surely be all sorts of workaround suggestions from the usual crowd here, but my point is simply that power duplicate is not the expected standard duplicate behavior and therefore should not ruin quite simple workflows and require workarounds. It's a fine feature - it just shouldn't be the default. 

The scenario where you need an adjusted copy is not the most common, far from it, and it's outright ridiculous that such simple functionality we know from other programs stands out so significantly in Affinity and cannot be changed - you have to change your behavior in standard scenarios to avoid Serif's enforced algorithm for rare, special scenarios.

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4 hours ago, Aldus said:

A mutated version based on the last edit.

If you deselect the object you were editing/transforming on before duplicating (I use the ESC key), then a simple duplicate will be made after selecting the object.

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5 hours ago, Pšenda said:

If you deselect the object you were editing/transforming on before duplicating (I use the ESC key), then a simple duplicate will be made after selecting the object.

As written just above, I am well aware of how I waste my time constantly having to work around Serif's clumsy flow with forced power duplicate, which can also be called disrupt duplicate. (I know you just tried to help. 🙂). 

I just sat with my iPad (watched Shōgun with my wife and could not curse out loud, dammit) and made simple objects based on other objects, and every damn time I make a change to an object and duplicate it, it gets rotated, shifted, compressed, or something else instead of just duplicated. And then I have to press escape or something else to avoid it every damn time. Every. Single. Time. It's like having to press a button on the wall before I press copy on a photocopier. Every. Single. Time. I. Copy. A. Page. This would make everyone laugh mockingly in the normal world, so why is Serif's circus tolerated in Affinity?

The function is CALLED duplicate - I expect it to do just that. 1:1 - if I expect more, I should choose more, Serif. It. Is. That. Simple.

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1 hour ago, Aldus said:

The function is CALLED duplicate - I expect it to do just that. 1:1

The Duplicate function does exactly what the Help says. If you don't like this feature, don't use it. If it has a shortcut assigned by default that you are used to and for which you expect a different function, then change it. How simple.
If you would like some other/additional feature, then ask for it - fine. I just don't understand the point of criticizing and railing against available feature which is very practical for many users including me.

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55 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

The Duplicate function does exactly what the Help says. If you don't like this feature, don't use it. If it has a shortcut assigned by default that you are used to and for which you expect a different function, then change it. How simple.
If you would like some other/additional feature, then ask for it - fine. I just don't understand the point of criticizing and railing against available feature which is very practical for many users including me.

😖

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@Aldus I don't know how it works on iPad, but don't you have a modifier to duplicate your object directly on the canvas by holding down ctrl+L click drag with the Move Tool like on desktop? With snapping on it takes a quick flick at most to do and only needs to be done once.

CtrlLClickDragDuplicate.thumb.gif.4ad2723acc0ac3d5d18f1d0f08429287.gif

Also, Power Duplicate is completely reliable on if you actually did any type of transform while having that layer selected and when the Move Tool remains active. The layer only moves if the transform value has been changed and it disappears the moment you deselct said layer or when you switch tools. If you switch to the Paint Brush Tool for instance the layer won't be moved anymore with the Duplicate shortcut.

In what situation would you be making a transformation of the layer before making yet another duplicate?

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8 hours ago, Frozen Death Knight said:

@Aldus I don't know how it works on iPad, but don't you have a modifier to duplicate your object directly on the canvas by holding down ctrl+L click drag with the Move Tool like on desktop? With snapping on it takes a quick flick at most to do and only needs to be done once.

In what situation would you be making a transformation of the layer before making yet another duplicate?

Many situations - simple and hefty reuse of objects is quite normal in my workflows, it is much faster to duplicate a custom object with several nodes than to make a similar with the pen tool. In Yesterdays instance I reused the same object for spots of highlight or shadow on a face - I can reuse one from the chin with only few adjustments and move it to the forehead and then again to the nose, just smaller. I don't make duplicates in one go. I make them as I need them. 

Also other elements like crackles in walls, leaves, dirt here end where, reflections on windows or metal, bricks, straight lines all kind of redundant work is affected. All the time.

I just ask that this is an opt-in for when it is needed. In that case usability would also kick in: people would understand what happened because they themselves enabled it.

I simply don't want to sit with the large Affinity manual at hand or the forum for questions because Serif has to be so different or user-unfriendly. It's completely normal and expected behavior that I'm asking for. And now I don't have time to argue with the internet anymore, Serif must have understood the substance of my feedback by now, that's who I wrote it to in the first place anyway.

Have a good Sunday.

Festina lente

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3 hours ago, Aldus said:

Many situations - simple and hefty reuse of objects is quite normal in my workflows, it is much faster to duplicate a custom object with several nodes than to make a similar with the pen tool. In Yesterdays instance I reused the same object for spots of highlight or shadow on a face - I can reuse one from the chin with only few adjustments and move it to the forehead and then again to the nose, just smaller. I don't make duplicates in one go. I make them as I need them. 

Also other elements like crackles in walls, leaves, dirt here end where, reflections on windows or metal, bricks, straight lines all kind of redundant work is affected. All the time.

I just ask that this is an opt-in for when it is needed. In that case usability would also kick in: people would understand what happened because they themselves enabled it.

I simply don't want to sit with the large Affinity manual at hand or the forum for questions because Serif has to be so different or user-unfriendly. It's completely normal and expected behavior that I'm asking for. And now I don't have time to argue with the internet anymore, Serif must have understood the substance of my feedback by now, that's who I wrote it to in the first place anyway.

Have a good Sunday.

Well, I agree that options are good. Having regular Duplicate and Power Duplicate as separate operators isn't much to ask for.

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Agreed, a separate non-"power" duplicate option makes sense, and it could be mapped separately to a different keyboard shortcut on the desktop versions.

In the interim, it may not be much help on the iPad, but at least on the Mac you could use something like Keyboard Maestro to intercept the duplicate keystroke and send the copy/paste sequence instead.

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Something like this?
Ctrl+J is powerduplicate Ctrl+K is clone(copy/paste in place) item without the dynamics of powerduplicate.
And use Alt+F to make use of the now default shortcut Ctrl+K to find in layers panel.




 

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3 minutes ago, Return said:

clone(copy/paste in place)

It would probably be best if the new command didn’t overwrite the contents of the clipboard.

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Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.5.1 (iPad 7th gen)

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2 minutes ago, Alfred said:

It would probably be best if the new command didn’t overwrite the contents of the clipboard.

 

1 minute ago, Return said:

And by this you mean?


Simply that, unlike Copy/Paste, the current (Power) Duplicate command leaves the contents of the clipboard available for reuse.

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Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.5.1 (iPad 7th gen)

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So does CTRL+C>CTRL+V which is what I meant by cloning.
You could also catch the mouse pointer position to paste here (paste in place).
Or right click to have a menu option that says paste here. 
And again paste here to add another copy.

Xara has the paste and replace function.
And paste position
And paste size
And paste position and size on the rightclick menu.
 




 

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13 minutes ago, Alfred said:

Simply that, unlike Copy/Paste, the current (Power) Duplicate command leaves the contents of the clipboard available for reuse.

 

5 minutes ago, Return said:

So does CTRL+C>CTRL+V which is what I meant by cloning.


I think we may still not be ‘on the same page’ here! What I mean is that if, say, you have a piece of text on the clipboard and you copy/paste a triangle in your document, the clipboard will have a copy of the triangle and the text will be gone. If you duplicate the triangle instead of using copy/paste, the text will still be available for pasting elsewhere.

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Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.5.1 (iPad 7th gen)

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Yes, true, but it's just a niche option don't you think? 
Most likely one wants to duplicate the item at hand and forgets about the other item.
Actually I only used power duplicate with say hands of a clock or grids which could now be created with the move data entry options or the quick grid option.
I mostly use ctrl+drag(or alt+drag) to copy to the position I want for given item.
Maybe some sort of clipboard manager could be applied on the rightclick menu to show the pasting options.
 




 

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The bottom line is that we all seem to agree that there’s room for improvement!

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Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.5.1 (iPad 7th gen)

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