Canva

[walt.farrell]

32 minutes ago, RichiePhoto said:

I don't get this tweet from Affinity

Does it help if you consider that it was actually tweeted in 2022, not one day ago? 

 

[GraphicsByGreg]

HEY Ash!!!! NO!!  

[Matt]

Look, it's 2024 and software on computers have been in our hands since 1990-ish.  We grew up and went professional with careers buying software to support our business, and personal endeavors.  Since 2010-ish, subscriptions appeared on common software (not highly unique software that was there all along) but everyday software in our faces on computers and then mobile devices.

It's very simple.  Companies want steady streams of money.  No one disputes this.  But subscriptions, lease ware, rent ware, call it what you like is never, NEVER good for customers.  We can't tolerate a constant stream of spending to compensate business's constant need for incoming income.  Instead, offer BOTH!

Keep the buy once and get security/feature updates, or pay a subscription and get updates (whether you think the feature changes are worth it or not).  Let the CUSTOMER choose.  Release major versions (like Affinity has since the three suite appeared) with updates made during that X.x.x lifetime, then offer an upgrade price strategy.  DO NOT LIMIT US to subscription only behavior.

Again, no one is fooling themselves thinking a business doesn't need to make money.  Just consider your ENTIRE CUSTOMER market, not just think that everyone has accepted rent ware as a way of life.  I can guarantee you this is not the case for ME...a proud Affinity customer, and to-be-determined Canva customer!

[GraphicsByGreg]

1 hour ago, LondonSquirrel said:

You really think out of 175 million users, none of them are professionals? You may look down your nose at them for using Canva, but if it's "good enough" for Sony Music and Gucci, I would say it has something going for it.

They arent good professionals.  I never met one yet. 

[bici]

58 minutes ago, RichiePhoto said:

I don't get this tweet from Affinity

so even the great Daring Fireball's Gruber has chimed in:

https://daringfireball.net/linked/2024/03/26/canva-acquires-affinity

[Queen Rarity]

When I first saw this (just as I woke up this morning) I thought it was a very poor joke.  Then I read the whole thing and I was shocked and dismayed. I had just bought V2 just a few months ago and now this. I see a subscription coming to Affinity and I am not pleased. I left Adobe when that happened, and went open-source. If this happens to Affinity with no perpetual licence, I will go back to open-source alternatives.

This is so sad......

[bmobius]

Dear Serif/Affinity leadership

Shame on you. ALL of you. There has never been a single acquisition of this kind that has benefitted it's users in total. EVER.

Every single creative app that has been scooped up by any kind of greedy, subscription-based, Orwellian corporation has been turned into utter trash. Eventually the Affinity apps will too. Nebulous legally gray features, bloated processes, restrictions on innovation, and so on will reduce your product offerings to mere shells of what they are currently. Simply look at what's happened to the Adobe apps over time to see what I mean.

Or Autodesk apps.

Or Maxon apps.

I loved the fact that Serif was going toe-to-toe with Adobe on their own terms. You all made a space for yourself in a market that is egregiously spiteful towards most artists and design professionals. The sheer fact that so many of us flocked to the Affinity apps, despite the lack of parity of features with similar Adobe products, should be proof enough that there is a deep deep need for professional creative applications that could be easily afforded that didn't rely on invasive, predatory practices like subscriptions.

Sadly now the writing is all over the wall, brightly colored and garish. You didn't give us a definite statement on the subject of perpetual licenses vs. subscriptions. You're making no efforts to ensure that your user base will be protected against the very same, evil practices that Adobe thrives on. You've given all of us the middle finger while licking your lips in greed at the money you've made from this deal. At this point, why didn't you just offer yourselves up to Adobe and let them gut you?

This is just too damn sad

[PaulEC]

8 minutes ago, Queen Rarity said:

When I first saw this (just as I woke up this morning) I thought it was a very poor joke.  Then I read the whole thing and I was shocked and dismayed. I had just bought V2 just a few months ago and now this. I see a subscription coming to Affinity and I am not pleased. I left Adobe when that happened, and went open-source. If this happens to Affinity with no perpetual licence, I will go back to open-source alternatives.

This is so sad......

My wife (who is a professional illustrator and surface pattern designer) is in the same position. She moved to Affinity from Adobe a few months ago, partly to avoid the subscription, but mainly because she actually prefers using Affinity. When she found out about this take over, she was really depressed that, having spent time learning the new software, she may soon either have to go back to Adobe, or try to find another alternative.

[bmobius]

1 minute ago, LondonSquirrel said:

These are dozens and dozens of posts along the lines of "because Affinity does not have so and so feature, it will never compete with Adobe", as well as 100% file compatibility. Indeed you mention the lack of parity. If somebody came along and offered a huge pile of cash, I am sure many people would be tempted.

That's just it. This is a case of greed over integrity. Serif positioned themselves as a company that prided themselves on having integrity and being supportive of their users. Today's announcement undoes all of that.

[bici]

Canva has a choice to make: do they preserve what makes Affinity unique, or do they absorb it into their subscription-based ecosystem?
Are we losing Affinity

So that is it for me for today. I have some projects to get done using affinity v2 products. All the best...  toodeloo 

[SrPx]

1 hour ago, nezumi said:

@SrPx Yeah man, it is always concern but look - up to this point Canva has 175 MILLIONS of users. Many more prestigious 😉 Prompt Masters are working hard in home to take your job ("in five years, you will see" 🥱 ) . Did they manage to take jobs from you? If somebody is in the business of making leaflets promoting local "Nail Salon LATISHIA" or making logo for well known "Halal Chicken" shop on the corner then it is concerning. Not going to lie - that 16 years old owners nephew can snitch that job, taking a 10 minutes break from generating boobs in the latest and greatest Stable Diffusion. But if you left that sort of jobs behind already and you make anything that needs personal touch and originality I dont see much more competition to be honest. There always was tons of people who think they can do the job themselves with little help of template, who didnt wanted to pay already low price for our designs. Let them.

 More people is listening to some mindbogglingly stupid rap songs then to symphony orchestra, much more people is watching tiktok videos then reading books, many more is worrying if they can update i-phone to the latest model with 9 cameras so they can share video of them shaking their booty in the kitchen, then expand their skill set, learn something new. We are living idiocracy and masses will follow trends. Now its AI. As sad as it is - we cant change it.

But there are clients who will appreciate your work. Just dont look for jobs in that garbage filled with "I want fast and cheap and I dont care if it has extra arm!". You have to be elitist when it comes to jobs. And yes - you are always starting from the bottom. But think about it this way - you can take their job just as easily as they can take yours. The difference is - if you are trained, you have skill and knowledge - you will go up. Prompters will stay on the same level, perpetually fighting between themselves who can generate that "Ladys Night - 50% off!!!" leaflet quicker.

We are 2 years in that AI revolution. And the more time passes the less I am afraid of it. The threat is always years away somehow 😉

BTW, if you are using Paint - take a look at new software InstaMAT https://instamaterial.com/ . Its really mindblowing whats it is capable of and best of all - its free for people who earn less then 100K a year. And its like whole Substance package in one. Quite capable.

Agreed in everything, so, not much to discuss 

Although, I am afraid that a lot of younger artists (reading gazillions of posts and comments everywhere about AI and art) are feeling a lot of struggle (I was not expecting so much impact in their mood, honestly), not having certain "psychological defenses" and experience (both of which come with age) to avoid 'panicking', and I can't really tell them much to change their mood. And, crazy as it sounds, I have found some in severe depression due to this (or so they say...but some things are clear symptoms) ... I can say some inspiring words, but in those cases I tell them to go to therapy, ASAP. As, obviously, they have additional problems. Even having to learn an entire new job profile and in a drastically different field (I've done it so many times already, lol) ...even in such context, that should never happen, not solely for that reason, at least. But definitely, the whole situation doesn't help.

BTW, I see it more complicated that AI would replace graphic designers (and developers).  We've been always using tools to apply our composition, color and etc (serving to function, all that puzzle) in the most productive and smartest way, yet keeping a coherence and style; this seems like another iteration. But illustration (honestly, I identify more with this field even if I have worked a lot more as a designer at companies) would be more wrecked. I've seen several writers -even some that dealt with me in the past- that are now generating their book cover illustrations "for free". Less so with interior pages illustrations, as for now, iterations with a same character, many poses, really varied yet keeping the character through all the story, adding subtle personality details... (heck, even a same environment/building in different angles) this is a bit of a struggle yet with AI (for now). Mostly due to the seed mechanism and  that it can't really "understand" what it is doing (again, for now. With AGI, we'd see). That and copyright/regulation/etc. But I am seeing already a percentage of "replacement". It's never going to be a 100%, I agree on that. And all that of "people need people", etc. But I am seeing already a lot of newbies and pros moving to other job fields. Through the years, I've always been "switching". From doing 3D, illustration, game art (and in there, everything from pixel art, to low pol to sculpting,  UI art...), web design, graphic design, teaching or web coding. Depending on opportunities (long ago, but I've even worked in tech support, lol), or on if the thing dries up a bit in this or that, or etc. So it's not a drastic change. But... in artwork the things are more severe. In digital painting, as... traditional is even stronger, now! Time to go back to my oils 😅. 

I will check that new tool now. Surprisingly, I had not even heard about it. I use Substance 3D Painter less now, as I have been focusing mostly on 2D.  3D for game miniatures, 3D printed, if anything (isolated gigs that don't require texturing). Looking at that site right now, it looks interesting. Specially for those producing an indy game (or for triple A studios), as it seems to focus a lot in automation, procedural stuff...  and with the number of assets even an indie game needs today, it looks convenient.

[RichiePhoto]

50 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Does it help if you consider that it was actually tweeted in 2022, not one day ago? 

 

I kind of guess so, but they did say "no one will be acquiring us"

[PaulEC]

7 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

...is answerable to its shareholders.

Not if it doesn't have shareholders! Serif and (AFAIK) Canva, are private, rather than a public companies, so the directors and board have no one to answer to but themselves!

[75th]

The thing is, we can't trust what any Serif employee says. Not because they might lie (though they might), but because they are no longer the authority on Affinity's future. I believe Ash when he says he truly feels optimstic about the future, that we'll like what they have to announce soon, etc. But at any time the Serif team can get a memo from their new bosses at Canva that says "You will do X", for any X, even if the Serif team have never dreamed of doing it and would be aghast at the notion.

If I were Canva and I wanted to do a bunch of stuff to Affinity that its users would hate, I would simply not mention it to anyone until the ink was dry on the acquisition contract. I would let the optimistic Serif staff tell its users "No really, this time the acquirers are going to let us keep kicking the football!" until the furor dies down, and then tell the Serif team my true plans.

If @Ash or anyone actually wants to reassure Affinity users, they can tell us what user-centric stipulations they insisted be written into the merger contract itself. If there are none, then again, nothing they say can be trusted because they are not in charge anymore.

Edited March 26, 2024 by 75th

[debraspicher]

18 minutes ago, RichiePhoto said:

I kind of guess so, but they did say "no one will be acquiring us"

The biggest scandal of that tweet is that it is admitting it would be rather "uncool" if Affinity were acquired. The Deal With It sunglasses tell us so...

[esto]

6 minutes ago, debraspicher said:

The biggest scandal of that tweet is that it is admitting it would be rather "uncool" if Affinity were acquired. The Deal With It sunglasses tell us so...

[Amontillado]

I've stuck with Affinity despite some quirks. If the Affinity staff who won my loyalty remain in place and if there is no burdensome subscription, I'll stick with them.

If not, my needs include page imposition for booklet printing and modest layout capability. I use Affinity for high polish documentation for work and tinfoil-hat-level political screed, mostly dweebery about hideous property appraisal hijinks.

Yeah. I know. I should make better decisions. On the other hand, I believe I helped push some positive changes. Just me, high noon, a property appraiser, and a low-slung copy of Publisher flashing fatefully out of the leather.

I'm going to start looking for alternatives against a dark future without Affinity.

[Tape_Worm]

After having been through a corporate merger as an employee, I believe that anything said by Serif or Canva at this point will be utter horse shit.

They'll say nothing will change, that's a lie.  They'll say we'll only improve things as requested by you, that's a lie.  

Capitalism sure is great eh?

Time to find another alternative.

[Affinityconfusesme]

I will be sad if it goes subscription as the reason for buying the affinity range was because it is a one time purchase, and will have to go to open source for my photography.😓

[Bit Disappointed]

12 minutes ago, debraspicher said:

The biggest scandal of that tweet is that it is admitting it would be rather "uncool" if Affinity were acquired. The Deal With It sunglasses tell us so...

Unfortunately, it illustrates the comic self-assurance with which Serif has acted, which hardly made Serif better equipped to understand the demands of the present and future for companies and product quality. You cannot create software for professionals when you do not work in contact with professionals and do not work as professionals. Serif was not acquired by Adobe, that goes without saying. They were acquired by Canva! The complete opposite ditch. It's a defeat of biblical proportions for a company that tried to work its way closer to professionals with Affinity.

[Jimo]

This all reminds of that bit in the 'The Office':

Brent: "The bad news is... Neil will be taking over both branches and some of you will lose your jobs. On a more positive note, the good news is... I’ve been promoted. "

[OzNate]

43 minutes ago, debraspicher said:

The biggest scandal of that tweet is that it is admitting it would be rather "uncool" if Affinity were acquired. The Deal With It sunglasses tell us so...

Exactly

[elsheera]

Welp. It was good while it lasted. See you all at the next iteration of anti-Adobe, since I have little doubt but that Affinity will become clone-Adobe.

[Kemelvor]

I've read all the pages, and I'm going to add my voice in the mayhem. If you want an early quick TL;DR, it's pretty much the same opinion as the crushing majority of what has been expressed.

I've been faithfully using Affinity Designer/Photo for 4 years, almost daily to draw on it. The brush engine was solid enough and the versatility of being able to switch seamlessly between Photo/Designer made me stay, even if I knew there could have been better options. The lack of subscription meant that I could store the installer on my backup HDD and be able to open my project files anytime I want. I bought the V2 instantly when it came out. Despite the little quirks like the smudge tool issue - which I reported a few months ago, the unwieldy liquify tool and some lacking features, I was still very happy using your software for its great UI, the incredible versatility, the non-destructive features and the good brushes made by Frankentoon. I even spread the word to artist friends to give it a try. I've never considered it to be the "cheaper Adobe alternative" but a real, solid suite of software to rely on.

The acquisition by Canva is a sign of doom for me. I've been skeptical at first but reading more and more into that organization just killed any hope I could have.

• Canva already acquired good stuff before and closed them.
• They made an 1 billion $ offer (!) for your society that "only" made 31 millions $ in 2022. Aka major expectation to get that money back by all possible (and shitty) means.
• Canva is a venture capitalist-funded company and is preparing itself to go public. Aka incentive to put profits above all else.
• The deal was offered and acted within a single digit amount of weeks. Which is understandable given the big bag of money put on the table, but is a red flag for the users.

I don't mind AI as much as the others, it's a controversial tool but a tool regardless. But I fear the massive enshittification that will ensue, the data steal collection, as well as the legitimate dread of the inevitable subscription-based service that will come. I do understand that profit is the incentive for Serif, but our incentive is a quality software we can rely on. If this is not met, then why stay ? Our loyalty is only bound by the reliability of your reputation, and it's now at stake.

Like others, I understand why you shook hand with Canva. But I hope you'll understand why, us users, will go elsewhere. I feel sadness over it, as if everything amounted to a waste. It's the end of an era for me. I've grown as an artist with Affinity, and I will keep preciously the V2 to continue drawing on it. I'll even buy the V3 if it's still a "Pay once, keep forever" that isn't too intrusive, even if a sub is offered on the side like CSP. Simply to encourage you to stay true to yourself and show your new owners that it's the way to go. But otherwise, I'm ready to say goodbye to you, with heavy heart. And thank for the awesome experience of discovering the marvelous possibilities of Affinity.

[nezumi]

2 hours ago, LondonSquirrel said:

You really think out of 175 million users, none of them are professionals?

Never said that. I really think these are not tools for professionals for simple reason that are very limited to what you can do with it.

2 hours ago, LondonSquirrel said:

You may look down your nose at them for using Canva, but if it's "good enough" for Sony Music and Gucci, I would say it has something going for it.

For simple thing - simple tool. Let me ask you then - do you think every single visual job for these companies is made using Canva? Of course its good enough to slap photo with text on Instagram for ANY company. They are not making packaging or visualization in Canva.

Its funny how you are going against what Canva itself stated. Maybe go to them end explain them how they are wrong according to you.

@SrPx I understand you completely. Whats more I have a son in therapy now so my understanding of the issue is even deeper. I was raised in country (and times) where therapy was not an option. Not sure if it was better or worse - I just react differently to all that news. Also I am older so I have benefit of experience and perspective on things. I have seen many other "ends of the world", "nothing is going to be the same" etc. Certainly this is new and if anything gets me "depressed" is fact that people are so easy to manipulate, so quick to believe things without giving it a thought.
Mantra now is "AI will dominate soon". And like I said - that magical "5 years" after which AI will dominate stays 5 years. No matter that two of these years has passed and really and truly not much has changed. AI was very quick to develop in the beginning and then seems like it reached plateau. But hype is still going strong, "nothing will be ever the same again" and "you will see in 5 years", blablabla. And if you are not buying into the hype - of course you are being ridiculed as "luddite"
AI is just called that but it doesnt think. It has no idea about composition, colors, light, perspective... It doesnt know that if cable reaches one side of something should go out on the other side etc. It has no concept of making anything historically accurate because it is just mashing pictures together and if it was tagged "Roman helmet" it will use it even if its not. All it does is just copying and mashing iterations together. Sometimes better, sometimes worse. Its really far far away from replacing people for something more demanding. As all AI is - nobody solved main problem with it - hallucinations (I love how they are trying hard to anthropomorphize simple software error ) . Some AI tools would be nice to see, why not. I dont mind that automatic fill for pictures. Its like better content aware. Bring it on. Or automatic bitmap tracing powered by some "AI". Bring it too. Just dont bloat everything with some absurd AI toys like "automatic smile detection" or something.
Can you replace SOME jobs with it? Sure. But how the heck moving to different field will solve anything? Arent we told that AI will replace nearly everybody everywhere? Unless they are moving from being to designer to being a plumber I dont see how it makes sense. Just because we have image spitters now people change their life plan? I dont know man, it all seems so silly. I guess I will stay that "luddite who will be replaced in 5 years" for couple more years

Ha! You will be surprised how many similarities is between us I am also more into 3D sculpt that does not require texture, also for table top games, miniatures. Youre in Spain I see? So many fantastic miniature painters are from Spain. Mexico here although I am Polish so.. its a long story hahaha.
Anyways, yeah I was also doing this or that - recently revived love for retro and pixel art. And who knows, maybe I will go more retro and get that oil painting going. I did few murals in my time. You cant paint a real wall in real world with AI. You can only pretend you did. Pretty much like everything with AI - you can pretend it was you who created it, pretend it is actually thinking... Its a pretending tool Saludos!