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Tazintosh

How to join points? Am I that much missing something?

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Hi folks,

 

Listen, I've no clue if I'm completely tired, missing something or whatever else related to me that could explain such an issue, but I cannot understand how to simply join two points!

If you look at the following image, I would like the join A with B and C with D. I've tried many ways, look on the help, look on the forum, and still not luck.

The left "shape" you see on the capture (the bracket thingy [ ]) is one unique so called "(Curves)" in my layer panel. The right shape is what I'd like to achieve (tricked for this example).

post-7538-0-87733700-1461236082_thumb.png

 

Any bright light would be much appreciated!

I've attached the file is you want to "play" around.

Join.afdesign


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Hi Tazintosh,

This is still not very intuitive in Designer. Join Curves will not work here because it will only joins the closest nodes, not the selected ones. It also doesn't work for single objects. So you have to draw the lines to close the shape.

 

With the Pen tool click on the Node A, then place the other end of the line near the node B, press ⌘ (cmd) to change temporarily to the Node Tool and drag the end node of your line over the B Node (make sure you have Snap to selected curves enabled in the context toolbar for the Node Tool). The nodes are now overlapping but they are still independent. To join them drag a selection around the nodes with the Node Tool and click Join Curves so they become a single Node.

Do the same for the bottom (C and D nodes) and the path is closed.

 

[EDIT] The process described above only works for separated paths not for compound paths as in this case.

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Hey MEB,

Thanks for the answer and the video.

I had already tested what you did, sadly, this is not "joining", it's just a visual effect :( look :

NotJoining.mov

 

PixelPest, History is not a solution, for instance, what if I've simply received this file from someone else, or it's extracted from a PDF, etc. There are tons of situations where you simply are in this case.

Even if the actual trick shown here was working, this would be a terrific amount of time when you have to deal with dozen, hundred of points to fix!

 

I have to switch back to Illustra*shi* for this, believe me, it's really painful! But… select two nodes, ⌘j, boom… select two nodes, ⌘j, boom… select two nodes, ⌘j, boom…


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Tazintosh,

 

I can confirm the same, not-really-joined behavior when I try MEB's steps on your file. I think this happens because the original shape is a "Curves" type (two shapes on one layer) rather than two separate "Curve" shapes, each on its own layer.

 

If I start with two curves on separate layers (A-C on one & B-D on the other), then select both & apply first Join & then Close, it seems to work OK, except for the bug in AD that increases the stroke width when you join them. That is easy enough to fix afterwards (as long as you know what the original stroke width was), but it is still a lot more complex & non-intuitive than it should be.

 

For your file with both shapes already on a "curves" layer, you can use Divide to separate them onto two layers, but because that closes the curves (yet another bug?) you will have to use the Break Curve command four times (at each node A through D) & delete the two superfluous two-node line shapes (A-D & B-C) that process creates. Once that is done, the above join/close/fix stroke procedure should work.

 

I have attached an AD file showing this. It includes both the history of what I did & three snapshots at key points in the process, which I hope will make it clear what a convoluted process it is & why AD desperately needs a Join Nodes function.

Join v2.afdesign


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.155 & Affinity Designer 1.7.3.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.1.2

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PixelPest: of course, don't worry

 

R C-R: thank you for the time you put on this!

As you said, this is still a lot more complex & non-intuive than it should be. Honestly, I've done it in a few seconds in AI. This is sad when we all know how faster & smarter AD is…

Moreover, my example was very basic and reduce from the real case, but when you have to play with many many more elements like this one, it's really not funny not having such a working feature.

post-7538-0-65032800-1461246000_thumb.png

 

I look at the way you break a curve. Here's mine:

• With node tool, create a new node between the two you're actually planning to "open"

• Click the break button (this new node was already selected, so it's save another step of selection)

• Drag over to select the nodes (we see one because overlapping)

• Delete


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Just take my reply as a hint on "winding rules" of Bèzier-splines - I know nothing about your workflow.

I don't think this has anything to do with fill modes or workflows, just the bugs that need to be fixed & how much work remains to be done on some of the already or yet to be implemented features.

 

Among other things, the Break Curve action does not work when multiple nodes are selected, which means it must be applied separately to individual nodes to break a closed shape into two or more open ones. Just reworking it so that action would work on every selected node (including those in two or more selected shapes) would save a lot of time & help make doing something like this much less tedious & frustrating.


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.155 & Affinity Designer 1.7.3.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.1.2

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I look at the way you break a curve. Here's mine:

• With node tool, create a new node between the two you're actually planning to "open"

• Click the break button (this new node was already selected, so it's save another step of selection)

• Drag over to select the nodes (we see one because overlapping)

• Delete

I confess that I intentionally broke the curves at the existing nodes just to point out the deficiency in the Break Curves action not working on multiple nodes, not because in this example it was an efficient way to get rid of the unwanted segments that closed the divided curves.

 

If it did work on multiple selected nodes, it would be much more useful when it isn't desirable to add nodes. For example, say you have a 5 pointed star converted to curves & want to break it up into 5 V-shaped curves, each with a different fill color, and/or not change the size or position of the resultant shapes. As it is now, it takes applying the break action five times, once at each of the inner nodes, to do that.

 

Maybe I'm underestimating the programming needed to support breaking more than one node at a time, but it seems like it would be a simple & very useful thing to do.


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.155 & Affinity Designer 1.7.3.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.1.2

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Hi Tazintosh,

The process i described above should have worked (check the history panel - all actions are being registered), unfortunately the joining action is not reliable. Sometimes it's joins at first other times it doesn't. I'm logging this to be looked at. Sorry the trouble. After you join the nodes you can check if they were really joined if you move the node. If they are still separated press ⌘ (cmd) + Z to undo and repeat the join operation. [EDIT] The process described was only true for separated vector objects not for compound paths.

 

@R C-R Those are not two shapes on one layer but a single vector shape (a compound path to be more precise). There's no need to start with separate paths for this. It should have worked as I described.

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@R C-R Those are not two shapes on one layer but a single vector shape (a compound path to be more precise). There's no need to start with separate paths for this. It should have worked as i described.

I can't find any reference to supporting "compound paths" (that is, two or more unconnected curves) on one layer in the AD help, other than in reference to creating Compounds, which seem to be a distinctly different layer type from "Curves," more like a special group layer "mode" than anything else.

 

I also can't find anything in the help suggesting the Join Curves action works on anything other than joining two separate curves together to make one curve. Besides, like you mentioned in your first reply Join Curves action doesn't work for selected nodes, so it should make no difference if you select the two coincident nodes as you did in your video -- at best the action seems to connect the two nodes nearest each other, without regard for which ones are selected or if they are starting or ending nodes, & only if they are on different "Curve" or shape layers, not in one "Curves" layer.

 

In fact, starting with a "Curves" layer I have had a 100% failure rate using your method to join whatever it shape(s) or path(s) it contains. It is easy to see that it isn't working if you begin by filling the "Curves" layer with some color. As expected, each of the items in the layer fills only as far as their starting & ending nodes permit. But after the first join action, if it actually worked, the entire shape should be filled as far as the (now just one each) starting & ending node permits, but that doesn't happen, at least every time I have tried it. Instead, I always get two fills, one for each shape, that touch at the point where the nodes were snapped to prior to applying the (non-working) join action.

 

Without filling the layer first it can be deceptive because until you deselect the layer, you can move the not-really-joined coincident nodes around with the Node tool, so it looks like you are just moving a single node when in fact it is two selected, unjoined nodes being moved.


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
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Compound paths is just a generic name for single objects composed by more than one path. In Affinity those as treated/labelled simply as Curves too. Compound shapes are labelled/treated as Compounds in Affinity. 

 

The Join Curves command doesn't work with the nodes you selected if they are separated. It always joins the closest ones which is OK as a default behaviour but should join them if two specific nodes where selected by the user (this is one of the things that could be improved). It also should join them if both are selected and overlapping (becoming just one node rather than connecting them through a "hidden" line keeping them separate nodes). There's no need for another Join Nodes command. 

 

Breaking multiple nodes simultaneously is already planned for a future update.

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Sadly, looks like we are minimum of two people out of this single thread to have a 100% failure doing the way you show on the video.

The result is two overlapping nodes, that all. They are not joined (merged) to one node.

I've tried many many ways with my example file. It simply not working for us.


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The Join Curves command doesn't work with the nodes you selected if they are separated. It always joins the closest ones which is OK as a default behaviour but should join them if two specific nodes where selected by the user ...

For me, this doesn't work at all if applied to a Curves layer, whether the nodes at the end of the unconnected paths are separated, near each other, or snapped to exactly the same xy coordinates. In this respect it is exactly like the Break Curve action -- when applied to more than one node at a time, it does nothing & gives no indication that it did not.

 

In the History panel, "Join Curves" appears; on the Edit  menu "Undo Join Curves" appears (as does "Redo Join Curves" afterwards); but that doesn't mean anything because no action actually was performed, exactly the same behavior as when the Break Curve action is used when more than one node is selected.

 

It only looks like the nodes were joined because both of them remain selected after clicking the Join Curves button. If I then use the Node tool without first deselecting anything, both of them move together, just like for any other pair of selected nodes, making it easy to be fooled into thinking they have been joined. However, hitting escape once & then using the Node tool to select & move the supposedly joined node reveals they are not really joined because only one of them moves (just like in Tazintosh's video).

 

I have tried this more than a dozen times, including with newly created empty documents in which I have created a Curves layer by using the Union (Add) or Combine operators to create the Curves layer from two regular Curve layers, & every other variation I can think of that might produce a different result, but nothing changes. 100% of the time I cannot join paths if they are on a Curves layer.


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
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Count me in as another very frustrated user. Why we can’t simply select two nodes and ⌘J (or whatever) them together is beyond me. I can’t comprehend how Affinity Designer was even released without that capability, let alone continue to not have it.

And don’t even get me started on having two points perfectly overlapping, joining the curve together, and instead of one point, still get two connected by a line. Absolutely bonkers.

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Hi vitor,

 

Count me in as another very frustrated user. Why we can’t simply select two nodes and ⌘J (or whatever) them together is beyond me. I can’t comprehend how Affinity Designer was even released without that capability, let alone continue to not have it.

This will be addressed in a future update. Currently Affinity Designer joins the closest nodes rather the ones you selected.

 

 

And don’t even get me started on having two points perfectly overlapping, joining the curve together, and instead of one point, still get two connected by a line. Absolutely bonkers.

I'm sorry for the trouble with Nodes. Can you post a sample file (just the paths) where this happens?

You can snap to nodes if you enable Snap to selected curves in the Snap section (context toolbar) for the Node Tool. The node should change to yellow when it's overlapping another in the same or on another path. Note you must have both shapes/paths selected.

 

We are aware of a few cases where the overlapping nodes are connected by a line but this usually happens when using boolean operations (add, subtract etc) not when joining nodes manually unless i'm missing something. This should improve as we move forward.

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And don’t even get me started on having two points perfectly overlapping, joining the curve together, and instead of one point, still get two connected by a line. Absolutely bonkers.

When you say perfectly overlapping, do you mean one node has snapped to the other & turned yellow (like MEB described) or you have tried to do this visually? If the latter, they probably are not actually coincident, just so close to each other that it looks like they are.


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
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I never rely on “it looks correct”. I always have the software make it correct through inputting values. I don’t even trust snapping. Illustrator ruined it for me since it snaps (snapped?) to where the cursor is, not where the points meet, which could (and often would) lead to tiny imperfections. The type of illustration I do requires extreme precision, so that’s a no-go.

 

When I say perfectly overlapping, I do mean perfectly overlapping, as in I’m giving you no reason to not make sure this isn’t perfect. Affinity Designer’s imprecision has been a long standing complaint of mine, ever since the pre-1.0 betas. Here’s what I mean in this particular instance:

 

1. Move the points to the exact same location, but inputting whole values manually.

DilNHcw.gif

 

2. Close the curve. It’s (in this case) immediately apparent they are still two separate points.

ufFDFU3.gif

 

3.⌘Z everything.

oOBTqy4.gif

 

4. Manually separate and join the points with snapping.

57klHa1.gif

 

5. Verify it worked.

hCLJ6wA.gif

 

So snapping worked, but I don’t want to move the point away and back in for each connection. That’d be ridiculous. A common technique is to draw half, mirror it, and join. With Illustrator, that means connecting the shapes and just select-and-⌘J a bunch of times.

 

This is one of the many reasons I always criticise Affinity Designer’s imprecision. If you cannot input exact values (and notice I have 6 decimal places showing, and I use none for this example) and have them be precise, then how can you trust any measurement? This isn’t just hypothetical. Many times I have to redo hours of work because I find a mistake somewhere (like a point on top of another, when they should have been joined). Now every time I do a single operation, I obsessively check and recheck the same point multiple times. Talk about a time waster and bad experience.

 

It is particularly egregious when talking about Boolean Operations. Having to check every single point of those shapes multiple times is no fun at all. And when one side of a symmetrical shape has two overlapping points and the other does not, there’s no way you can trust any part of the whole result.

 

Here’s the file in the examples.

Here’s the full video.

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Why not move the first node to wherever you want by whatever method you want, say with transform panel input? Then with the node tool's "Snap to selected curves" button enabled, drag the second node onto the first one? It is faster than going to the transform panel again after selecting the second node & for me doing that always merges the two points if I follow that with a Close Curve action, exactly like in your #5 illustration.


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.155 & Affinity Designer 1.7.3.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.1.2

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