Erno Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 I love Affinity Suite but there are inconsequencies in this software family. I came from Adobe world. It is obvious that Affinity - although it is not an Adobe clone - uses many similar function, shortcuts, features. Which is very good - but it is very random and annoyingly inconsequent. You should leave the usual things as they are. For instance all software in the world uses Shift button to add a selection to another one. Why is it neccessary to change it? I can't see the point. Why is Ctrl+Alt better? What is the reason behind? I can't see any sense. Why I can't use Ctrl+Alt+Shit+Arrow as a nudge with copy? I would use it million times - if it existed at all. Generaly modifying shortcuts is not easy because a simple searching field is missing from the preferences. You use default shortcuts which are totally unusual for everyone. Ctrl+Shift+L (or R or C) is a text aligment - or should be. These shortcuts add a rotation to the workplace! For what? Shortcuts useful when you use a function many times. Yous wasted these ones for a very rare action. Propbably I would add a Photoshop preset to the features - as other softwares does. All in all: keyboard shortcuts should be more flexible also with MOUSE setup, if possible! The layer and document setups totally disorganised, mixed up. I have the slighest idea why you don't have a "merge" option. I can't realise how to merge the layers, it is overcomplicated as many other things. Very frustrating. Resource manager. I can't see the point. All sofwares call it "Links". Because they are links But they don't have a window in Publisher - for instance. Very-very annoying. A DTP sofware without link window! How do you think? Hue and saturation - this is just one example for the inconsequent improvement. Very single software - even 3D softwares - call it Hus and Saturation - because it is. You call it Recolour. Why? Again, your software Suite is brilliant but I can't count how many features can be improved, although I have just started to use it. Finally your biggest improvement, the personas. Which is revolutionary. Or would be. To be honest I can't see too much advantages - as they are now. This function could go to the menus. I would make only one software with 3 main functions: Photo, Designer, Publisher. THAT would be a real revolution, THE Revolution, yeah baby My dream since I started with DTP softwares in the far past I can give you a more detailed feedback but it is already too long. And don't misunderstand me, I love your product and I will pay for the version 3, but there is huge places to improve it It will be better (many function already is) than Adobe. Thank you. blureogroup and Ruslan TV 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pšenda Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 1 hour ago, Erno said: I have the slighest idea why you don't have a "merge" option. I can't realise how to merge the layers, it is overcomplicated as many other things. Very frustrating. https://affinity.help/photo2/English.lproj/pages/LayerOperations/merge.html or Right click i Layers panel. Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.5.5.2636 (Retail) Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.4317. Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.4317. Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 2 hours ago, Erno said: Hue and saturation - this is just one example for the inconsequent improvement. Very single software - even 3D softwares - call it Hus and Saturation - because it is. You call it Recolour. Why? HSL and Recolour are two different types of adjustment: Affinity Publisher Help: HSL adjustment Affinity Publisher Help: Recolour adjustment Alfred Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.5.1 (iPad 7th gen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erno Posted February 7 Author Share Posted February 7 Hi Psenda, thank you for your reply. I am afraid, I used a wrong expression, I meant "to flatten" an image. Meanwhile I realised that this feature is in the Document menu, which is not really logical to me, as we merge layers together but I can accept that AP logic is different. The way as Merge Visible and Merge Selected work is a bit odd. The result is a new layer not simple merging. But it can be useful, I admit, although very unusual. I need to get used to it. I made a course and I have long time experience with DTP softwares. I think, my real problem is that many things that are different in Affinity are not explained properly (at least I can't find answers) and people, like me that come from Adobeland these things are very confusing and seems to be illogical. If you know a very (I mean very ) detailed course, or a comparison tutorial I would be really greatful. Thank you again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erno Posted February 7 Author Share Posted February 7 Thank you very much Alfred. The thing is both feature HSL and Recolour seems to be the same: Hue, Saturation, Lightness/Luminosity. Even their documentation is almost identical. Unfortunately, I feel Affinity documentation to be a bit poor. But as I wrote, my biggest problem is the lack of consistency. If it tries to get parts from Adobe - wonderful, just do it, I have to learn less, we happy. If it tries to be a totally different software - wonderful, I will learn it, no problem, happy again. But mixing in an illogical way - I don't think it works. I call "illogical way" the neglecting of almost standard procedures (using Shift to add selection, etc) without understandable reason. But old foxes can live with it, if shortcut system would be much more flexible. Thank you again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pšenda Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 51 minutes ago, Erno said: and people, like me that come from Adobeland these things are very confusing and seems to be illogical. I think it's important to realize that Affinity is not a "clone" of any competing product. Anyone who assumes this, and isn't willing to adapt to a completely new/different product, will be needlessly disappointed - they should continue to subsidize Adobeland, where they will definitely be happier. Serif is a company that has been developing DTP products for over 35 years. If the Affinity applications draw from something and follow some philosophy (non-destructive workflow), then from the original/own Plus products. Twolane and Paul Mudditt 2 Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.5.5.2636 (Retail) Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.4317. Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.4317. Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erno Posted February 7 Author Share Posted February 7 Dear Psenda, I have never in my life said that Affinity is a clone. I wrote: "It is obvious that Affinity - although it is not an Adobe clone - uses many similar function, shortcuts, features." Which is fact. I said that, please try to read it well, even if my English is not perfect. I didn't want to offend anyone. Besides, I wrote that I love Affinity very much. I think, this is the future of DTP. I wrote that I find it to be confusing because it uses Adobe components, elements whatever and ignores almost standard features that everybody got used to and it makes Affinity a bit uncomfortable. I don't understand why do you think it is an attack? The name of this section is Feedback and Suggestion. I made feedbacks and suggestion. In this case I don't really know what's the point to be rude to me? Your reply is pretty angry, meanwhile I didn't hurt anyone, I just told what I don't like what I would change. How would you know, if you don't get feddbacks what is good for the customers and what is less good? But if you represent Affinity's user policy, and it's better to keep my mouth, then I will, and I hope will find something else I think the censorship is an Adobe way, and I do want it no more All the best, I am not bothering this section any longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pšenda Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 I don't know and I don't understand from what you conclude that my answer was "properly angry" and "that it is an attack". Maybe it's because my English is not perfect. It was just a general statement and caveat based on the fact that you find Affinity illogical (different) than other products, because that's just what it is - it's a different product. Paul Mudditt, Twolane and Westerwälder 3 Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.5.5.2636 (Retail) Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.4317. Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.4317. Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrother Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 6 hours ago, Erno said: I feel Affinity documentation to be a bit poor Welcome in the forum @Erno. Thank you for sharing your observations. You are right in this matter. The documentation is written very poor. 6 hours ago, Erno said: But as I wrote, my biggest problem is the lack of consistency. Once again your conclusions are correct. They try to forcefully reinvent some common, proven functions, shortcuts and functionalities that have been working for years, which often ends with very poor results. There is potential in the apps but with such decisions it will, im affraid be wasted. Gripsholm Lion and Westerwälder 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erno Posted February 7 Author Share Posted February 7 Thank you, bbrother. I did not intend to offend anyone. Contrary, I think Affinity did a fantastic job with this Suite and I would love if it was perfect After 30 years Photoshop, Illustrator, QuarkXpress and Indesign I change my workflow to Affinity. If I didn't this software is brilliant AND BETTER, obviously I wouldn't have done it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pšenda Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 8 hours ago, Erno said: The way as Merge Visible and Merge Selected work is a bit odd. The result is a new layer not simple merging This is a consequence of the "non-destructive" concept of Affinity. During any operation, such as Crop, Affinity tries to preserve the previous content. Only when the user performs a delete/trim will this original content be destroyed. 8 hours ago, Erno said: this feature is in the Document menu, which is not really logical to me From the description in the Help, it is obvious that Merge is performed on individual layers, whether visible or selected in the Layers panel, and therefore these functions are available from the Layer menu or as a context menu of the Layers panel. Whereas Flatten command will always flatten the entire "document", so it makes sense (to me) that this function is available from the Document menu. Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.5.5.2636 (Retail) Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.4317. Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.4317. Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bit Disappointed Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 As I've mentioned a trillion times before in this forum, Serif has opted for many perplexing, contradictory, or technically incorrect or dubious solutions. This is what happens when you stubbornly refuse to hire specialists for specialist work. If things haven't changed in 30 years, why would Serif alter its course in the next 10? It's the most effective cure against learning, market share, and happier customers I've ever seen. Personally, I would find it dull as dishwater and extremely unambitious to work in that way (I wouldn't be allowed to either) but they have so clearly chosen to cocoon themselves in their cave with their methods. Their choice. I'm somewhat enjoying Designer, which does have its merits and performs well and swiftly, but I can say with conviction that my investment in Publisher and Photo turned out to be superfluous. Especially Photo. Bloody hell, the amount of unserious algorithms you can find there. Even considering the price. But perhaps the worst part is that it fails to attract professional clients, despite the marketing team's zealous use of the term "professional." So, ambitious and professional clients who come here with expectations are, to their surprise and often irritation, told by non-professionals what professionals need and expect! Brilliant strategy, sure to drive potential professional clients away. Yet another effective cure against increasing market share. The discourse in this forum is that many customers indirectly indicate that they have too much time on their hands, not to use Affinity professionally, but to talk about it. And much more. In other words, don't expect Serif to take a sharp right turn towards Usability City, no matter how critical, constructive, or fanboyish you try to be here. Wishes are listened to in this forum, but there's no serious, professional, and structured work as there should be in a company like Serif, and that's the basis for the observations you've made. In other words: Westerwälder, Pšenda, Ruslan TV and 1 other 1 1 2 I simply no longer believe that there are any professional graphic designers here. Everything follows suit. Just everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erno Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 Thank you Psenda :) Pšenda 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erno Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 Hi BitArts. Your message made me unhappy a bit. I didn`t check the age of Affinity. 30 years is too long time, and I supposed it was a young company. In this case either their customers are satisfied or they don`t listen to them. Nevertheless they have a massive fan camp and many people prefer them to Adobe. I must say I also think it is a good product. You can choose Adobe or Affinity, the rest of the software product by other companies are less good. What can we do? At the moment I am giving a chance to Affinity, I need to learn it properly before I turn to Adobe again. We`ll see I tried Wondershare Filmora which is a pretty good video editing software (although it is not an alternative to Premier or After Effects) and I gave them some feedback and ideas. To my surprise they got contacted with me and on a Zoom meeting and they went into details. I hope Affinity will listen to their customers. All the best, Erno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrother Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 18 hours ago, Pšenda said: Serif is a company that has been developing DTP products for over 35 years. 35 years of experience, or even 100 if you want, is worthless if the quality of the application is not proportional to that experience. 9 hours ago, Bit Arts said: As I've mentioned a trillion times before in this forum, Serif has opted for many perplexing, contradictory, or technically incorrect or dubious solutions. We often disagree Bit Arts, but here I agree 100%. I can't understand the approach and development model (locking yourself in your own cave/bubble) they chose in Serif. Westerwälder and Bit Disappointed 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loukash Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 23 hours ago, Erno said: Resource manager. I can't see the point. What's wrong with Window→Resource Manager…? 23 hours ago, Erno said: All sofwares call it "Links". Because they are links But they don't have a window in Publisher - for instance. Very-very annoying. A DTP sofware without link window! "Links" have a different meaning in Affinity. In Photo you'll find the Links panel which is for managing linked layers. Besides, resources in Affinity can be either embedded or linked. Calling embedded resources "links" doesn't make any sense, does it? MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 4 minutes ago, loukash said: Calling embedded resources "links" doesn't make any sense, does it? No, it doesn’t, unless they’re on the left and you’re speaking German! loukash 1 Alfred Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.5.1 (iPad 7th gen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loukash Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 23 hours ago, Erno said: I would make only one software with 3 main functions: Photo, Designer, Publisher. THAT would be a real revolution, THE Revolution, yeah baby Yeah, baby: the revolution of the big massive "eierlegende Wollmilchsau" BLOAT. Thanks baby, but no, thanks. Westerwälder, blureogroup, Alfred and 1 other 3 1 MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Return Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 6 minutes ago, Alfred said: No, it doesn’t, unless they’re on the left and you’re speaking German! Right! (Or Dutch/Flemish) Alfred and Westerwälder 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bit Disappointed Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 1 hour ago, Erno said: Hi BitArts. Your message made me unhappy a bit. I didn`t check the age of Affinity. 30 years is too long time, and I supposed it was a young company. In this case either their customers are satisfied or they don`t listen to them. Nevertheless they have a massive fan camp and many people prefer them to Adobe. I must say I also think it is a good product. You can choose Adobe or Affinity, the rest of the software product by other companies are less good. What can we do? At the moment I am giving a chance to Affinity, I need to learn it properly before I turn to Adobe again. We`ll see I tried Wondershare Filmora which is a pretty good video editing software (although it is not an alternative to Premier or After Effects) and I gave them some feedback and ideas. To my surprise they got contacted with me and on a Zoom meeting and they went into details. I hope Affinity will listen to their customers. All the best, Erno Hi Erno No reason to be unhappy, just aim for a realistic level of perception and expectation. The key is to avoid oversimplifications. Serif has created affordable software for the masses, which in some aspects makes things easier and better than Adobe, yet there's also a strong sense of "beggars can't be choosers" with the product. Adobe is pricey, I can afford it and also have Adobe and others, so I'm more neutrally minded. I'm not a fan or fanboy; I simply use the software that suits exactly the product I'm creating, so I don't expect Serif to provide me with alternatives for everything I use Adobe for, to cut costs, nor am I dependent on Serif, but it annoys me immensely that they don't mature internally as a company. All companies do some things right and some things wrong, and unfortunately, in my professional life, I've seen company cultures stuck for decades. It's not unusual. Professionally, we've switched to new professional firms (being professional is an ATTITUDE!!!), and it has elevated both our products and our work. It's contagious to work with companies and people who maintain a very, very high level. Conversely, it becomes increasingly demoralizing to see the old companies, whose products we still have clients using, continue on their old cultural track, making inferior products, and actually being cringe-worthy to interact with. But there's some cash flow coming in that keeps them alive for a bit longer. They also whine a lot about new companies taking their customers, but it's often simply because... they deliver better. So, do I think Serif will ever change its attitude and modus operandi? Not at all. I'll use Designer as long as it's best for a niche in my work and hobby, and I'm actually quite fond of the desktop version of it, but beyond that, it's a peculiar experience to work professionally where I do, seeing the software I use evolve, and Serif bumble along in the same track decade after decade. I just want to encourage you to see everything in the right light, now you thought Serif was a new company, not at all, and if you're going to base your business tool choice on anything, it should be facts, not false hopes or a lack of facts. If there's one thing that's dangerous, it's making a long-term choice that's wrong. I simply no longer believe that there are any professional graphic designers here. Everything follows suit. Just everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Return Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 2 hours ago, Erno said: I didn`t check the age of Affinity. 30 years is too long time, Company: Serif 35 years. Product(s): Affinity(designer MAC only) 10 years. PaulEC, Bit Disappointed, garrettm30 and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bit Disappointed Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 54 minutes ago, Return said: Company: Serif 35 years. Product(s): Affinity(designer MAC only) 10 years. Oh, give me strength. It doesn't matter that they started on Mac 10 years ago. I'm talking about how the company works as professionals, methodically, involving specialties, what algorithms they develop themselves or obtain from external sources, what their attitude is towards the professional level of the algorithms and to their products as such, and much, much more. The WHOLE thing! You shouldn't think you're starting over just because you're also making a Mac version. But you do start over when you fail to work professionally in advance, then you end up with the clunky tablet versions of the products that we have today. Nothing learned and no empathy, they try BY THEMSELVES and fail BY THEMSELVES. The company has been working with graphic software for 30 years and should be at a much higher level of consciousness, professional level, and possess much greater industry knowledge than they do today. They had the chance to make a fresh start with Affinity as a company on all levels, but it was only partial because the corporate culture does not extend further. Westerwälder 1 I simply no longer believe that there are any professional graphic designers here. Everything follows suit. Just everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Return Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 3 minutes ago, Bit Arts said: Oh, give me strength. It doesn't matter that they started on Mac 10 years ago Thanks for your reply but it wasn't addressed to you but to @Erno Pšenda 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loukash Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 On 2/7/2024 at 12:53 PM, Erno said: one software with 3 main functions: Photo, Designer, Publisher. THAT would be a real revolution, THE Revolution, yeah baby My dream since I started with DTP softwares in the far past Speaking of which: Have you noticed that your dream has already materialized? And that we've been using it since almost five years? affinity.serif.com/press/newsroom/serif-launches-affinity-publisher-with-stunning-new-studiolink-technology In other words, "THE Real Revolution" is pretty old news. Westerwälder and PaulEC 2 MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 1 hour ago, Bit Arts said: You shouldn't think you're starting over just because you're also making a Mac version. But they didn’t also make a Mac version! Before they started working on the Affinity range, Serif made their ‘Plus’ products solely for Windows. When they first launched Affinity Designer and then Affinity Photo, those products were built from scratch and only available for Mac, but the core functionality was designed from the outset to be ‘platform agnostic’ so that they could build Windows versions (and, later, iPad versions) by tacking on a different UI ‘front end’. Return and PaulEC 2 Alfred Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.5.1 (iPad 7th gen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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