NegativeGrain Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 I would like to suggest the option to use the Personas in Photo without having to change a grayscale image to an RGB. I shoot primarily black and white images so I'm not understanding why I can't keep my photos in the gray/16 without having to convert to use a feature. Bruce Garrett 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pšenda Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 6 hours ago, NegativeGrain said: I would like to suggest the option to use the Personas in Photo You mean "Develop" Persona in APhoto? This persona is used to develop RAW files, and it doesn't matter if those RAW files are color or grayscales. As for the already developped files, all adjustments are available in Photo persona. Quote Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.5.5.2636 (Retail) Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.4317. Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.4317. Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NegativeGrain Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 40 minutes ago, Pšenda said: You mean "Develop" Persona in APhoto? This persona is used to develop RAW files, and it doesn't matter if those RAW files are color or grayscales. As for the already developped files, all adjustments are available in Photo persona. My apologies if I got some of the terms and lingo wrong for this software. I've only been using it for 10 months at this point. Maybe I'm just confused. I've never had the colorspace limit me in the other program before so i think that's where the confusion comes from. My RAW files are TIFF files with a grayscale colorspace. When I try to use Develop in Persona it tells me that I can't because I must use an RGB layer. So I have to convert to Adobe RGB to fix this. Unless I have the program convert the colorspace from grayscale to color on import so I don't have to worry about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bruce Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 2 hours ago, NegativeGrain said: My RAW files are TIFF files with a grayscale colorspace. ... What you have is a finished file format, not a raw file. Off the top of my head I cannot recall a raw file format that is TIFF. Where are they coming from? I suspect a scanner is involved. <pedant on> Raw is not an acronym. It is the actual word raw, with the definition of uncooked, and should not be in all caps unless all the text is in all caps. <pedant off> Gripsholm Lion 1 Quote Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.6 Affinity Designer 2.5.5 | Affinity Photo 2.5.5 | Affinity Publisher 2.5.5 | Beta versions as they appear. I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bit Disappointed Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 @NegativeGrain Could you please upload a sample file and also explain which camera you have, and how the RAW file was actually created in the first place? Quote I simply no longer believe that there are any professional graphic designers here. Everything follows suit. Just everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NegativeGrain Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 18 minutes ago, Old Bruce said: What you have is a finished file format, not a raw file. Off the top of my head I cannot recall a raw file format that is TIFF. Where are they coming from? I suspect a scanner is involved. <pedant on> Raw is not an acronym. It is the actual word raw, with the definition of uncooked, and should not be in all caps unless all the text is in all caps. <pedant off> Thank you for the corrections. I'm always willing to learn. You are correct. The scans are from a Minolta film scanner. I'm so use to referring to my negatives as the raw format that I sometimes use it when referring to the images I scan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bit Disappointed Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 minute ago, NegativeGrain said: You are correct. The scans are from a Minolta film scanner. I'm so use to referring to my negatives as the raw format that I sometimes use it when referring to the images I scan. I thought as much. When scanner programs save scans in a format labelled as 'RAW', they typically store the data in an unprocessed and uncompressed form. However, this isn't quite the same as the RAW format known from digital cameras. In the context of scanning, 'RAW' refers to a direct digital copy of the scanned content without any colour correction, contrast adjustments, or other forms of image processing. These files contain all the raw data captured by the scanner's sensors, which may include every shade of light and colour present in the original document or image. It's important to distinguish this from the RAW format used in photography. In photography, a RAW image is a file containing unprocessed data directly from the camera's sensor. While both types of RAW files contain 'raw' data, the data structure and purpose are different. Scanner-RAW focuses on capturing an exact digital replica of a physical document or image, whereas camera-RAW is designed to give photographers maximum control over image processing by preserving all details and information captured by the camera's sensor. Old Bruce 1 Quote I simply no longer believe that there are any professional graphic designers here. Everything follows suit. Just everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bruce Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 @NegativeGrain, Further to what I and others have written here I have to say that I doubt the Develop Persona will offer you anything 'better' than what is available in the Photo Persona. If I were doing this sort of work I would save the output from the Minolta scanner to a 16 bit greyscale TIFF, if possible, and just use the Photo Persona for further processing. Bit Disappointed 1 Quote Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.6 Affinity Designer 2.5.5 | Affinity Photo 2.5.5 | Affinity Publisher 2.5.5 | Beta versions as they appear. I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NegativeGrain Posted February 3 Author Share Posted February 3 I've been using the Develop Persona for the Detail Refinement and Noise Reduction under the details tab in my workflow for cleaning up film scans. Unless the photo persona have both of those. Still don't see why a feature should be locked away because of color profile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotMyFault Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 The main purpose of the develop persona is doing the transformation from bayer sensor RAW sensor data into actual RGB data. All other functions like denoise, detail refinement etc. are only provided “for convenience” out of historic UI conventions, and are actually available in Photo Persona. There are minor exceptions / differences which are not relevant in your case. denoise: Filter->noise removal or denoise details refinement: filter->unsharp mask, and/or highpass with blend mode overlay. Use the destrcutive filters if you want to mimic the develop persona behavior, as the live filter version of denoise works differently. As explained before, scanner images do not need any de-bayering as scanner sensors work fundamentally different than camera sensors. The filters and functions provided in Develop Persona are specifically designed to work on camera sensor RAW data. If you have no camera sensor RAW data, those functions “fall back” to the regular functions available in Photo Persona, loosing their specific advantage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demosaicing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_filter Quote Mac mini M1 A2348 | Windows 10 - AMD Ryzen 9 5900x - 32 GB RAM - Nvidia GTX 1080 LG34WK950U-W, calibrated to DCI-P3 with LG Calibration Studio / Spider 5 iPad Air Gen 5 (2022) A2589 Special interest into procedural texture filter, edit alpha channel, RGB/16 and RGB/32 color formats, stacking, finding root causes for misbehaving files, finding creative solutions for unsolvable tasks, finding bugs in Apps. My posts focus on technical aspects and leave out most of social grease like „maybe“, „in my opinion“, „I might be wrong“ etc. just add copy/paste all these softeners from this signature to make reading more comfortable for you. Otherwise I’m a fine person which respects you and everyone and wants to be respected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bit Disappointed Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 5 hours ago, NegativeGrain said: I've been using the Develop Persona for the Detail Refinement and Noise Reduction under the details tab in my workflow for cleaning up film scans. Unless the photo persona have both of those. Still don't see why a feature should be locked away because of color profile. There's no reason for that either. Quote I simply no longer believe that there are any professional graphic designers here. Everything follows suit. Just everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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