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Using personas with greyscale images


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6 hours ago, NegativeGrain said:

I would like to suggest the option to use the Personas in Photo

You mean "Develop" Persona in APhoto? This persona is used to develop RAW files, and it doesn't matter if those RAW files are color or grayscales. As for the already developped files, all adjustments are available in Photo persona.

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40 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

You mean "Develop" Persona in APhoto? This persona is used to develop RAW files, and it doesn't matter if those RAW files are color or grayscales. As for the already developped files, all adjustments are available in Photo persona.

My apologies if I got some of the terms and lingo wrong for this software. I've only been using it for 10 months at this point. 

Maybe I'm just confused. I've never had the colorspace limit me in the other program before so i think that's where the confusion comes from. 

My RAW files are TIFF files with a grayscale colorspace. When I try to use Develop in Persona it tells me that I can't because I must use an RGB layer. So I have to convert to Adobe RGB to fix this. 

Unless I have the program convert the colorspace from grayscale to color on import so I don't have to worry about this. 

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2 hours ago, NegativeGrain said:

My RAW files are TIFF files with a grayscale colorspace. ...

What you have is a finished file format, not a raw file. Off the top of my head I cannot recall a raw file format that is TIFF. Where are they coming from? I suspect a scanner is involved.

<pedant on>

Raw is not an acronym. It is the actual word raw, with the definition of uncooked, and should not be in all caps unless all the text is in all caps.

<pedant off>

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I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

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18 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

What you have is a finished file format, not a raw file. Off the top of my head I cannot recall a raw file format that is TIFF. Where are they coming from? I suspect a scanner is involved.

<pedant on>

Raw is not an acronym. It is the actual word raw, with the definition of uncooked, and should not be in all caps unless all the text is in all caps.

<pedant off>

Thank you for the corrections. I'm always willing to learn. 

 

You are correct. The scans are from a Minolta film scanner. I'm so use to referring to my negatives as the raw format that I sometimes use it when referring to the images I scan. 

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1 minute ago, NegativeGrain said:

You are correct. The scans are from a Minolta film scanner. I'm so use to referring to my negatives as the raw format that I sometimes use it when referring to the images I scan. 

I thought as much. When scanner programs save scans in a format labelled as 'RAW', they typically store the data in an unprocessed and uncompressed form. However, this isn't quite the same as the RAW format known from digital cameras.

In the context of scanning, 'RAW' refers to a direct digital copy of the scanned content without any colour correction, contrast adjustments, or other forms of image processing. These files contain all the raw data captured by the scanner's sensors, which may include every shade of light and colour present in the original document or image.

It's important to distinguish this from the RAW format used in photography. In photography, a RAW image is a file containing unprocessed data directly from the camera's sensor. While both types of RAW files contain 'raw' data, the data structure and purpose are different. Scanner-RAW focuses on capturing an exact digital replica of a physical document or image, whereas camera-RAW is designed to give photographers maximum control over image processing by preserving all details and information captured by the camera's sensor.

I simply no longer believe that there are any professional graphic designers here. Everything follows suit. Just everything.

 

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@NegativeGrain,

Further to what I and others have written here I have to say that I doubt the Develop Persona will offer you anything 'better' than what is available in the Photo Persona. If I were doing this sort of work I would save the output from the Minolta scanner to a 16 bit greyscale TIFF, if possible, and just use the Photo Persona for further processing.

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I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

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I've been using the Develop Persona for the Detail Refinement and Noise Reduction under the details tab in my workflow for cleaning up film scans. Unless the photo persona have both of those.

Still don't see why a feature should be locked away because of color profile.

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The main purpose of the develop persona is doing the transformation from bayer sensor RAW sensor data into actual RGB data.

All other functions like denoise, detail refinement etc. are only provided “for convenience” out of historic UI conventions, and are actually available in Photo Persona. There are minor exceptions / differences which are not relevant in your case.

denoise: Filter->noise removal or denoise

details refinement: filter->unsharp mask, and/or highpass with blend mode overlay.

Use the destrcutive filters if you want to mimic the develop persona behavior, as the live filter version of denoise works differently.

 

As explained before, scanner images do not need any de-bayering as scanner sensors work fundamentally different than camera sensors. The filters and functions provided in Develop Persona are specifically designed to work on camera sensor RAW data. If you have no camera sensor RAW data, those functions “fall back” to the regular functions available in Photo Persona, loosing their specific advantage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demosaicing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_filter

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5 hours ago, NegativeGrain said:

I've been using the Develop Persona for the Detail Refinement and Noise Reduction under the details tab in my workflow for cleaning up film scans. Unless the photo persona have both of those.

Still don't see why a feature should be locked away because of color profile.

There's no reason for that either. 

I simply no longer believe that there are any professional graphic designers here. Everything follows suit. Just everything.

 

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