Resource Manager for Placed JPEG Files Exported to PDF Incorrect When the PDF is Opened in Publisher

[Hangman]

I'm unsure whether this has been previously reported or elements of it have... This is not unique to v2, it happens in v1 as well.

Take a JPEG File, in this instance a 4,1016 px x 4,016 px, 300 dpi file with an Adobe RGB (1998) embedded profile, exported from Capture One and Place it unscaled into:

1. An A4, 300 dpi RGB Publisher document with an Adobe RGB (1998) Working profile
2. A Square 4,1016 px x 4,016 px, 300 dpi RGB Publisher document with an Adobe RGB (1998) Working profile
    

Test 1
Export both files to PDF using the PDF (for print) preset with default settings and the colour profile embedded... Open both PDF files in Publisher with 'Convert opened files to working space' disabled...

Resource Manager for both Publisher Files

 

A4 PDF File Opened in Publisher
The ICC Profile is incorrectly shown as sRGB and the Original DPI is incorrectly shown as 96 despite the source image being unscaled... the placed file is correctly shown as a JPEG file...

 

Square PDF File Opened in Publisher
The ICC Profile is incorrectly shown as sRGB and the Original DPI is correctly shown as 300... the placed file is correctly shown as a JPEG file...

 

Test 2
Export both files to PDF using the PDF (for print) preset with 'Allow JPEG Compression' unchecked and the colour profile embedded... Open both PDF files in Publisher with 'Convert opened files to working space' disabled...

Resource Manager for both Publisher Files

 

A4 PDF File Opened in Publisher
The ICC Profile is not shown at all and the Original DPI is incorrectly shown as 72 despite the source image being unscaled... the placed file is incorrectly shown as a TIFF file despite being a JPEG...

 

Square PDF File Opened in Publisher
The ICC Profile is incorrectly shown as sRGB and the Original DPI is correctly shown as 300... the placed file is correctly shown as a JPEG file...

 

Source JPEG File used for Testing

barn-owl.jpg.zip

[Callum]

Hi Hangman,

I wasn't too sure with this one so I asked a member of our dev team for his opinion on what should be happening and they stated the following: We may well colour convert or resample bitmaps on PDF Export, and doing so will result in discarding information pertaining to the source image.

Thanks
C

[Hangman]

Hi @Callum,

Many thanks for investigating, very much appreciated... though the feedback from the dev team makes little sense for the following reasons:

3 hours ago, Callum said:

We may well colour convert or resample bitmaps on PDF Export, and doing so will result in discarding information pertaining to the source image.

Surely this is controlled by the 'Allow JPEG Compression' and 'Convert Image Colour Space' options when exporting the file to PDF?

Opening the Publisher exported PDF files back up in Publisher, Resource Manager shows the Colour Profile for the Embedded image as either:

1. A 96 dpi JPEG with an sRGB ICC Profile or a 72 dpi TIFF with no embedded profile for the A4 files
2. A 300 dpi JPEG with an sRGB ICC Profile for all the Square files

Switching to the Photo Persona of Publisher and using either Convert or Assign Profile shows the image uses an Adobe RGB (1998) Profile in all cases...
Opening the PDF files in Acrobat or Packzview equally shows the image in every instance at 300 dpi with an Adobe RGB (1998) ICC Profile...

This, to me at least, suggests Resource Manager is displaying incorrect information...

I appreciate this isn't a priority but are we able to get any further clarification as to the discrepancies?

I've attached eight Publisher Exported PDF files using a combination of 'Allow JPEG Compression' (AJC) and 'Convert Image Colour Space' (CICS) enabled or disabled, indicated in the file name using 'Y' or 'N' for internal testing...

Many thanks

Barn Owl.zip

[Callum]

I have asked for more info regarding your points and will update this thread once I have received it

[Hangman]

Hi @Callum,

Many thanks that is really appreciated...

Just for some context in terms of how the image in the PDF is viewed in other PDF Software vs re-opening the PDF in Affinity apps...

A4 - Acrobat, PDF Toolbox and Packzview (shown)

Square - Acrobat, PDF Toolbox and Packzview (shown)

 

A4 - Affinity Photo - Convert Format / ICC Profile

 

Square - Affinity Photo - Convert Format / ICC Profile

 

A4 - Resource Manager (with JEPG compression Unchecked on export)

Note: The file type is incorrectly shown as a TIFF with an Original dpi of 72 and with no ICC profile despite being a 300 dpi JPEG file with an Adobe RGB (1998) embedded profile...

 

Square - Resource Manager (with JEPG compression Unchecked on export)

Note: The file type is correctly shown as a JPEG with an Original dpi of 300 but incorrectly shown with an sRGB ICC profile despite being a 300 dpi JPEG file with an Adobe RGB (1998) embedded profile...

 

A4 - Resource Manager (with JEPG compression Checked on export)

Note: The file type is correctly shown as a JPEG but with an Original dpi of 96 and an incorrect ICC profile of sRGB despite being a 300 dpi JPEG file with an Adobe RGB (1998) embedded profile...

 

Square - Resource Manager (with JEPG compression Checked on export)

Note: The file type is correctly shown as a JPEG but with an Original dpi of 300 and an incorrect ICC profile of sRGB despite being a 300 dpi JPEG file with an Adobe RGB (1998) embedded profile...

[Callum]

Hi Hangman I have received the following info:

in your first example you place a very large (too large to fit on to the page) jpg with an Adobe RGB profile into a document with an Adobe RGB profile. So we have to crop it and we can also strip out the colour profile because it matches the document profile. So the jpeg you actually export does not have the same jpeg dpi or colour space as the one you placed. In fact we will be exporting with a default 96 dpi, it is irrelevant as far as the PDF is concerned. In your second example we do not have to crop the image - it fits on the page, so we can pass through the original jpeg data which happens to maintain the jpeg dpi but we can still strip the colour space and so on. 

I then asked if there was any settings you could use to export your large image as is and received the following:

the exporter uses the original data if it can (i.e. there is no reason it has to actually manipulate the bitmap) but in general no, in both cases above it would simply bloat the pdf by including unnecessary bitmap data or by duplicating the colour profile.

I hope this makes things a little clearer.

Thanks
C

[Hangman]

Hi @Callum,

Many thanks for investigating further and for the feedback from the dev team...

I'm starting to feel bad about pursuing this as I don't want to take up anyone's time unnecessarily here though based on the feedback you've received there are still several contradictions so to try and better demonstrate these I've created a new file which I hope better demonstrates the issue...

For total clarity, we are both talking about the exported pdf file and not the way exported pdf files are treated when reopened in Affinity apps which I assume honour the exported pdf?

Based on the feedback you've received I think that is indeed the case but I just want to make sure we're not talking at cross purposes and it's not Affinity apps themselves that are stripping out colour profiles and changing image resolution purely when the pdf is reopened (which would make little sense and be quite concerning for print work)...

The New Publisher File

For the new sample file, I'm using a 300 dpi 4,016 px x 4,016 px CMYK Affinity Publisher document and I'm placing four 300 dpi 4,016 px x 4,016 px Image files into the file and scaling each by 50% so all four fit perfectly on the same page and mean none of the Image files are being cropped based on them sitting outside the page area...

Artwork Specs

• The Publisher Document uses a Coated FOGRA39 (ISO 12647-2:2004) Colour Profile...

The four image files use the following Colour Profiles, two with RGB profiles and the other two with CMYK profiles:

• Barn Owl - Adobe RGB (1998)
• Dormouse - U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2
• Fox - PSO Coated v3
• Scottish Wildcat - ProPhoto

Each image file is added to the page and scaled to 50% so the Original DPI is 300 and the Placed DPI is 600 for each image...

PDF Exports Settings

• Four variations of the file are exported to PDF using the PDF (press ready) preset...
• All exported files have Embed Profiles enabled...
• The only difference between the four exported PDF files is whether Allow JPEG Compression (AJC) and/or Convert Image Colour Space (CICS) are enabled or disabled denoted by Y or N if the PDF filenames...

Publisher PDF Exported Filenames

• 01_Animals_AJC_Y_CICS N.pdf - 'Allow JPEG Compression' enabled, 'Convert Image Colour Space' disabled
• 02_Animals_AJC_Y_CICS Y.pdf - 'Allow JPEG Compression' enabled, 'Convert Image Colour Space' enabled
• 03_Animals_AJC_N_CICS N.pdf - 'Allow JPEG Compression' disabled, 'Convert Image Colour Space' disabled
• 04_Animals_AJC_N_CICS Y.pdf - 'Allow JPEG Compression' disabled, 'Convert Image Colour Space' enabled

 

Questions for the Dev Team Regarding Publisher Exported PDF Files Reopened in Publisher...

In many ways, I don't think the Original DPI shown in Resource Manager matters too much and it doesn't appear to be based on whether or not the image exceeds the page bounds, though based on the feedback from the dev team and considering in this example the images are not cropped and they use a different colour profile to the Document itself I am curious as to why when reopening Publisher exported PDF files in Publisher:

1. Why RGB images are exported using a default dpi of 96 when there is no unnecessary bitmap data to be cropped and the colour profile isn't duplicated?
2. Why CMYK images are exported using a default dpi of 72 when there is no unnecessary bitmap data to be cropped and the colour profile isn't duplicated and why does this differ from the default dpi for RGB images?
3. The embedded ICC Profile is stripped and shown as sRGB IEC61966-2.1 in Resource Manager for RGB profiled Images despite that profile not being used for any of the images
4. The ICC Profile is shown as Blank in Resource Manager for CMYK Images despite embedded Profiles being enabled on PDF export
5. The embedded JPEG Images are shown as TIFF files in Resource Manager when Allow JPEG Compression (AJC) is disabled on PDF export
6. The incorrect Document Colour Profile is shown when Convert Image Colour Space (CICS) is disabled on PDF export and which varies based on the image layer order in the source file
7. The same exported PDF shows the correct Document Colour profile once extracted using the ExifTool command exiftool -icc_profile -b -w icc filename.pdf followed by exiftool filename.icc to examine the ICC profile (see screen recording below)
8. The correct ICC Profile is shown for each Image when viewing the exported PDF in Acrobat or Packzview (as shown below) based on the Publisher export settings

 

Initial Publisher File Setup

 

Publisher Exported PDF Files Reopened in Publisher

 

PDF Files Viewed in Packzview

 

Incorrect Document Colour Profile is shown when Convert Image Colour Space is disabled on PDF export

 

Sample Source Files

Animals.zip

 

Publisher Exported PDF Files

Publisher Exported PDF Files.zip