Circular text frame linking

[MikeTO]

I've seen this a few times today - a text frame linked to itself. I've attached a minimal test doc that shows this.

I'm not entirely sure how I created it but I'm working in a different manner than normal this month on a different book and this is one of the two issues I've been seeing. The other issue is having the main frame linked to a header frame.

I suspect this is a master page issue as the frames are all on masters. And every time I encounter a really odd issue it seems to be something with masters. 🙂 I think both problems occur when I apply a different master - it's probably something to do with the feature that promotes objects.

I'll keep an eye out for the exact steps but in the meantime here is the test doc that shows a frame linked to itself.

test2.afpub

[Old Bruce]

14 hours ago, MikeTO said:

I've seen this a few times today - a text frame linked to itself. ...

I managed to do this once. Moment of panic and then I hit the delete key. I don't recall what I did to get to that state.

14 hours ago, MikeTO said:

The other issue is having the main frame linked to a header frame.

I suspect this is a master page issue as the frames are all on masters. ...

Do you name the text frames on the Master Pages? I ask because this Main Frame linked to a Header Frame is something I used to see quite often back when I didn't name everything on my Master Pages. Since I have gotten into the habit of naming everything I don't see it anymore.

[walt.farrell]

15 hours ago, MikeTO said:

I'm not entirely sure how I created it but I'm working in a different manner than normal this month on a different book and this is one of the two issues I've been seeing. The other issue is having the main frame linked to a header frame.

I suspect this is a master page issue as the frames are all on masters.

You seem to have a Document Page Frame (marked below) that is within the Master Page layer, but is not on the Master Page when I look there. That seems odd, but I'm not sure if it's related to your circular linking problem.

[MikeTO]

Hmm, that's actually a second copy of the master page frame - if you name them left and right on the master, they are left, right and right (from top to bottom) in the panel.

This has happened me to quite a few times now, along with other variations and I'm fairly certain it's the migrate content feature but I still don't know the steps. While it's a useful feature it doesn't do it in the best possible way.

test.afpub

For example, apply master Base to page 3 without changing any options. The body frame on page 2 will be linked to the header frame on page 3 and then to the body frame on page 4. I understand why Publisher is doing this (the user chose to migrate content and since there is only one frame on the page now Publisher used it even though it's obviously a terrible outcome). Now you might say the user should use Clear instead of Migrate but perhaps you have other master content (for example in a picture frame) that you don't want cleared. So your choice is to lose content or to have bad linking.

The problem wouldn't occur if the page number frames on the Base master were changed to art text objects because then Publisher couldn't use it as a target for linking. Instead it would promote the body frame to the document page and the outcome would be good. This is what I mean by the migrate content code not being smart enough. A human being would look at it and realize you can't link a body frame to a page number header frame. I wish the code had an extra check to see if it was logical, i.e., if the frame is below a certain height relative to the page then it's probably not what the user would want to link to. It could prompt the user and ask if you want to promote the content or it could simply link the frame on the previous page to the following page, skipping the page that doesn't have a suitable body frame. Maybe someday.

I will keep looking for how to create the circular linking but it's something to do with this.

[Hangman]

On 1/13/2024 at 3:52 AM, MikeTO said:

I've seen this a few times today - a text frame linked to itself. I've attached a minimal test doc that shows this.

The text frame on Page 1 isn't actually linked to itself...

For some reason when the 'Main' Master has been applied to Page 1, the Text Frame from the Left Facing Page that is linked to the Text Frame on the Right Facing Page on the 'Main' Master is sitting directly on top of the Right Text Frame when it shouldn't appear as a Linked Text Frame at all on Page 1, i.e., on a Right Facing Page document that uses a Master containing Linked Text Frames the Left Text Frame shouldn't be Linked to the Right Text Frame on Page 1 when the document is a Right Facing Page one.

When labelling the two Text Frames on the 'Main' Master, 'Text Frame Left' and 'Text Frame Right' then on Page 1 the Unlinked Left Facing Page Text Frame from the 'Main' Master, 'Text Frame Left' is now labelled 'Text Frame Right' and the text frame on the Right Facing Page labelled 'Text Frame Left', now appears on the Right Facing Page, Page 1 which will happen if two additional pages are added to the document and then Pages 1 and 3 are deleted resulting in what was Page 2 now becoming Page 1.

I've not been able to figure out a sequence of events that adds the additional third text frame to Page 1 so far... did you do anything when creating your test file other than the obvious?

[MikeTO]

@Hangman That makes a lot more sense than a frame that is linked to itself, I'm a bit embarassed that I didn't check for that. Thanks for the catch!

Now that I better understand the end result is I can try to figure out how it is happening. Perhaps it has something to do with inserting a single page (in a facing pages doc) and then applying a master as a separate step.

[Old Bruce]

5 hours ago, Hangman said:

I've not been able to figure out a sequence of events that adds the additional third text frame to Page 1 so far... did you do anything when creating your test file other than the obvious?

There is a bug with Autoflowing text from an Actual Page that has a Master Page which has an applied Master Page. Say Master Page Main Text MP and it has Page Number MP applied to it. Then when we Autoflow text from an Actual Page that has Main Text MP applied the newly created Actual Pages will have the Page Number MP applied twice. Once in the Main Text MP and again separately above that Master Page.

[MikeTO]

11 hours ago, Old Bruce said:

There is a bug with Autoflowing text from an Actual Page that has a Master Page which has an applied Master Page. Say Master Page Main Text MP and it has Page Number MP applied to it. Then when we Autoflow text from an Actual Page that has Main Text MP applied the newly created Actual Pages will have the Page Number MP applied twice. Once in the Main Text MP and again separately above that Master Page.

I haven't used AutoFlow at all for this book so while it might produce similar symptoms, it's not what I'm doing.

[Hangman]

18 hours ago, Old Bruce said:

There is a bug with Autoflowing text from an Actual Page that has a Master Page which has an applied Master Page. Say Master Page Main Text MP and it has Page Number MP applied to it. Then when we Autoflow text from an Actual Page that has Main Text MP applied the newly created Actual Pages will have the Page Number MP applied twice. Once in the Main Text MP and again separately above that Master Page.

 

6 hours ago, MikeTO said:

I haven't used AutoFlow at all for this book so while it might produce similar symptoms, it's not what I'm doing.

One way to reproduce this using a single Master Page, i.e., with no other Master Pages applied to it is as follows... I'm not suggesting this is how it actually happened but it simply shows it's possible and hopefully it may trigger something with regard to the process used during your book creation process...

Steps to Reproduce

1. Create a single, left-facing page Publisher document using the default Master (or a right-facing page document and change it to left-facing)
2. Name the Master Page, e.g., 'Main' (though not essential)
3. Add a text frame to both left and right pages on the 'Main' Master and link them
4. To make it easier to see what is happening, label both text frames, 'Text Frame Left' and ' Text Frame Right' and apply a tag colour (though not essential)
5. Insert two pages before Page 1
6. Apply the Main Master to both Page 1 and Page 2 individually so they show 'Main - Left' and 'Main - Right' rather than 'Main - 2 Pages'
7. Move Page 3 in-between Pages 1 and 2
8. Change the setup to make the document right-facing
9. Delete Pages 2 and 3 (though not essential)
10. The result is three text frames on Page 1, initially seemingly circularly linked, though in practice there is a second left-facing text frame sitting directly on top of the right-facing text frame