Affinty Photo 2 Export to png

[amh666]

I have recently purchased Affinity Photo 2 primarily to create custom liveries for a racing simulator I have in the past used Photoshop with no problem but upgraded to window 11 and my version of photoshop was no longer supported

The racing simulator requires a file to be saved as a png and the only option I can find in Affinity is to export to png

When I export a png file the colours within the racing simulator become washed out and very pale compared with the original file (I have edited a file I know is OK and I get vibrant colours from the original file but once I edit IN Affinity and export the same colours are washed out and pale

If however I open the edited file in ms paint and save as png the colours are not washed out

I have been told that the png files should not be compressed and I assume that Affinity is compressing the file as it is exported (the affinity png file has a size of 832kb and the mspaint png has a size of 967kb)

I attached two images showing the difference, the washed out one from edited and exported png from affinity, the non washed out edited within affinity and then opened in mspaint and saved as png

The actual source file is to big to attach so can be found in here, along with the exported and saved as files
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ASt4PVwMc5z5JxGSfP2yJojZ2tW9psU_?usp=sharing

Anyway I can turn of the compression when saving a png file or any ideas why the colours are being washed out ?

Edited January 10, 2024 by amh666

[amh666]

Did a bit more testing this morning and found the following :

• If I export the file as a png from Affinity Photo 2
• Then open that png file in mspaint
• Then save as a png within paint

The colours are washed out on the png file from affinity, but once opened and saved in mspaint (the same file, no name change or changes to anything within the file) the colours are correct

So it must be something to do with the export function within affinity

Files are attached

decals Orginal.afphoto

[Pšenda]

Open your document, and view exported png.

 

ICC profile for monitor in OS is correct?

[Dan C]

Hi @amh666,

Welcome to the Affinity Forums

As Psenda has confirmed above, I'm seeing the same colours in your Affinity document as in the exported PNG file - if you are seeing a difference that is not shown in non-colour managed apps (such as Paint) then it's likely due to your current monitor Colour Profile, set through the OS.

Please open Windows Run (Windows Key + R) then paste the following string and press OK:

colorcpl

Please take a screenshot of the window that opens, as this should show the current profile enabled for the monitor, then attach this screenshot to your reply here.

For example, here is the dialog on my machine:

Secondly, I'm a little confused by:

23 hours ago, amh666 said:

I have been told that the png files should not be compressed

As part of the PNG file format includes compression, as far as I know every PNG file created will have compressed data. However this is lossless compression, meaning the quality should be retained.

Many thanks in advance!

[amh666]

Hi thanks for the responses

I've been told that png files should not be compressed when they are used in the racing simulator I am trying to create liveries for

If you look at the 2 screenshots in the first post of a Ferrari front end you can see the difference between the two png files when they are loaded into the racing simulator

I agree they look the same in Affinity and exported png but once I load them into the simulator they are not the same

When I am using in the simulator competitors are also seeing the washed out colours from the affinity exported png but not from the version that has been saved in mspaint. Thus I cant see it being setting on my PC, however I attach the screenshot as requested, but there does not appear to be any profiles saved, could be as I am running multiple monitors on this PC ?

Edited January 11, 2024 by amh666

[Pšenda]

43 minutes ago, amh666 said:

Thus I cant see it being setting on my PC

There is no need to set the ICC profile for the monitor - the OS will use the default, i.e. sRGB.

 

45 minutes ago, amh666 said:

I've been told that png files should not be compressed

The PNG file format is inherently equipped with compression, but unlike other image formats (e.g. JPEG), it is a lossless compression - i.e. the original image data is always displayed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNG

[amh666]

Thansk all for trying to help

This is the comment I found that mentioned compression, but maybe its nothing to do with the problem I am having. The fact that the file changed size when it was saved in mspaint lead me to believe it may be related, but could be nothing to do with it

 

Bottom line is Affinity must be doing something to the exported png that is not being liked by the racing sim software :

• I export a png in affinity and import into the racing sim – result colours are washed out
• I open the same exported png file within mspaint and save it as a png and then import into the racing sim – result colours are not washed out

If I open the exported png and the mspaint saved png in affinity or mspaint the colours look identical on screen and are correct, the only time the colours become washed out is when I import the affinity exported png into the race sim

[Pšenda]

34 minutes ago, amh666 said:

This is the comment I found that mentioned compression

I think the combination of the words "do not compress" and "save it in full resolution" means that you should always use the full resolution and therefore the maximum quality of the image, and it is therefore not a matter of using compression algorithms in png format.

When exporting, do you save with an embedded ICC profile? - if yes, try to uncheck this option, if not, try to select it.

[Dan C]

4 hours ago, amh666 said:

Thanks for providing that for me!

If you tick Use my settings for this device in this dialog, do you see a profile appear in the list?

If yes, please select this Profile and click Remove, then select Add... and choose the sRGB profile shown in my previous screenshot.

If no, please simply select Add... and choose the sRGB profile shown in my previous screenshot.

Now restart the Affinity app and your simulation app, then reload the document and try exporting once again. 

Are you seeing the same colours in the document as in the exported image now please?

If the incorrect colours are still shown, is this only when viewing the image in the simulation app?

2 hours ago, amh666 said:

This is the comment I found that mentioned compression, but maybe its nothing to do with the problem I am having. The fact that the file changed size when it was saved in mspaint lead me to believe it may be related, but could be nothing to do with it

Thanks for verifying that also, the information within a PNG file is compressed by default, but can be further-compressed using tinypng etc. When exporting from Affinity, the PNG file will only be compressed once, meaning it's suitable for the simulation app - I can also confirm that the compression would not be causing the colour differences when viewing the image.

This is almost certainly due to colour management, I'm just currently unsure if the colour issues are occurring within the Affinity app, or within your Simulation app with images that Affinity exports.

Many thanks once again

[amh666]

Hi thanks again for your help
I have made the changes to the colour management :

 

I have then re-opened affinity and exported the file again as a png

I am still however still getting the washed out colour in the simulation

Affinity colours

 

Simulation colours

 

To answer your question :

If the incorrect colours are still shown, is this only when viewing the image in the simulation app?

Yes only in simulation

[Dan C]

Thanks for confirming that for me - everything looks correct within Affinity so this may be due to image requirements in your simulation app.

21 hours ago, Pšenda said:

When exporting, do you save with an embedded ICC profile? - if yes, try to uncheck this option, if not, try to select it.

Have you tried exporting without embedding a Colour Profile, as Psenda recommended above?

You might also want to check with the Simulation software support team for the exact colour settings required for your image, as if this looks correct within Affinity and in the exported file, but incorrect only within the Simulation app it may be due to this applications settings or requirements etc.

Do note that 32bit HDR PNG support in Affinity is only available within our 2.4 beta at this time, and if the Simulation app requires a 32bit HDR PNG, this may explain the differences you're seeing.

You can find out more about 32bit HDR PNG support in Affinity here:

 

[amh666]

Hi

Embedded ICC profile made no difference

I've downlaoded the deta 2.4 and here's the results :

PNG-HDR (PQ,REC.2020, Full Range)  - I think is actually worse as its more silver than the orginal washed out version (Narrow range gives the same result)

 

PBG-HDR (HLG, Rec.2020, Full Range) - still washed out as is Narrow Range

 

So my only solution appears to be to export the png and then open and close in mspaint 

[Pšenda]

15 minutes ago, amh666 said:

So my only solution appears to be to export the png and then open and close in mspaint

Can you provide some small PNG exported from Afinity, and then the same opened and saved in mspaint, which then displays differently in the simulator? Ideally packed in a zip so that the files are not modified by saving to the forum.

[amh666]

Hi please find attached, zipped whcih are named accordingly

 

exported and mspaint files.zip

[Dan C]

Thanks for trying the beta and providing these images!

The only difference I can see is the presence of the Alpha channel, in the Paint saved PNG.

When exporting your image from Affinity, as there is no transparency present in the PNG, it is saved as a 24bit image.

When exporting your image from Paint, the Alpha layer is included, even though there is still no transparency in the image, this is then technically a 32bit image.

Therefore I have opened your image within Affinity and removed a very small section of the bottom right hand corner using the Eraser Tool - introducing Transparency into the image. This means when exporting from Affinity, the image is exported at the 32bit depth, matching Paint.

Can you please try importing the below image into your simulation app and let me know if this is displayed as expected?

decals affinity export file.zip

[amh666]

Fantastic that works thankyou very much

what do I need to do to files going forward ? just erase small section to intrduce the transparency ?

[Pšenda]

2 minutes ago, amh666 said:

just erase small section

Just one pixel somewhere in the corner of the image.
In my opinion, this pixel doesn't even have to be completely transparent - only with an Opacity of 99%, so it won't disturb the image at all.

[Dan C]

9 minutes ago, amh666 said:

what do I need to do to files going forward ? just erase small section to intrduce the transparency ?

Currently that's correct, introducing any sort of fully or partial transparency somewhere in the file will mean the PNG is exported with the 'Alpha' channel included

However this is logged with our development team as a requested improvement, in order to offer the user the option of exporting a 32bit PNG including the Alpha channel, even with no transparency present in the file itself - so I'll be sure to add your 'vote' to this option now

[amh666]

Thats great

Thanks both for your assistance, its really appreciated

[Pšenda]

27 minutes ago, Dan C said:

PNG is exported with the 'Alpha' channel included

Interestingly, the simulator incorrectly displays a PNG file without an Alpha channel. Perhaps the mentioned "fading" of colors is caused by the fact that the simulator fills in some missing transparency information by default, so that the images are actually slightly transparent - and therefore bright.

[Drac0]

In the process of switching over to Affinity Photo and experiencing the same issue with my astrophotography images. These are 32bit FIT files and when I try to export to PNG they become extremely washed out. Exporting to PNG-8 (along with the loss of detail) or TIFF works just fine. Discovered I need to convert to 16bit before attempting a PNG export, just won't work with the original 32bit.

Note that the PNG files that appear washed out in other programs do open with the proper colours in Affinity. Just nowhere else I try.

Cheers,
Mark

[walt.farrell]

4 hours ago, Drac0 said:

Exporting to PNG-8 (along with the loss of detail)

Welcome to the Affinity forums.

"PNG-8" is a confusing term. If you're referring to using PNG, then specifying the Preset named PNG-8, that gives you dithered output and is not  what you want.

Instead, use You might try the Preset named PNG, but changing the Pixel Format to RGB-8 or RGB-16 rather than the default "Document Format" (which will be RGB-32 unless you change the file to RGB-8 or RGB-16 first).

[Drac0]

Thanks Walt. 👍

Changing to RGB 16-bit from "Document Format" seems to do the trick so created a new preset from it.

Cheers,
Mark

[walt.farrell]

You're welcome, Mark.