"Align to" can't be selected first in the alignment panel. Not logical, not like it was in V1.

[bbrother]

User can't select first the "Align to" option in alignment panel beacuase it is greyed out. The manual says something different.

Here's what you can read in the help files for version v2 ↓

Before you comment:
I know this behavior changed between app versions 1.7-1.8. At the beginning, we had the opportunity to set the alignment parameters first, but this was later changed.Users quickly got used to the previous behavior before the change because it was logical and very intuitive.

There were many complaints and requests to reinstate the previous behavior. Yo can check it using the link bellow ↓
https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/search/&tags=aw-3864,afd-3927&search_and_or=and&sortby=relevancy

 

Reasons to treat this as a bug and why i'm making the post in bug forum:

• Incosistent behaviour between apps versions
• Actual steps ar not the same as suggested by manual

 

Reasons to rolll back to the previous behavoiur and allow users to set the aligment parameters first:

• Not logical/intuitive behaviour (not allowing to set parameters for action before applying that action it's a nonsense)
• Not a good idea to have objects leaping about the place before we go on to click the right options. It's very, very distracting and wearing, particularly after watching objects go to the wrong place before we set them up how whe want.
• Not productive and notcomfortable tool behaviour for reasons i mentionet above.

 

Sorry, I'm going to get emotional here:
For God's sake why don't you let users use the options the way they want.
Reconsider your bad decision and bring back old behavoiur. Listen and don't be deaf to users arguments. You can only gain.

And a one more question to moderators, devs, anyone behind making this bad decision:
Why did you deliberately change the way the alignment parameters work when nobody asked for this and why did you not restore them to the previous version despite complaints and requests from users supported by rational arguments?

[Callum]

I have moved this thread from the bugs section to the feedback section as this feature is working entirely as intended and there are no bugs to be logged in this thread. As for why this change was made unfortunately I don't have this sort of info, the moderators here on the forum have no control over what does or doesn't make it into the app. Perhaps a developer will see this thread and can provide more insight.

As for the help file being incorrect this is something that has already been raised with the documentation team.

Thanks
C

[Pšenda]

2 hours ago, bbrother said:

Not logical/intuitive behaviour

For me it is completely logical - first I have to set what I want to do, and only then how it should be done. I don't think it's very "smart" to allow setting the Align To parameters to, for example, "First selected", and then choose "Space Horizontally", where this parameter completely loses its meaning.
And it's also intuitive, because I set the options/parameters step by step from top to bottom, exactly in accordance with the logic - set what you want to do, and then how you want to do it.

[bbrother]

1 hour ago, Pšenda said:

For me it is completely logical

If that's logical for you then i would say good luck my friend. 😱

An Example for you @Pšenda:

1. By default, the "Align To" option in the Designer is set to "Selection Bounds" and is grayed out.
2. Let's say I have two objects and I want to align obj 1 with "Last Selected" obj 2 to the center horizontaly.
3. When I click the align button the two object will be centered horizontally but first to the "Selection Bounds" not how i wanted "to Last Selected".
   All this because I couldn't select "Align to" parameter first because the app did not allow me to do this. 
4. Now after the not wanted/intended first align that the software performed automatically i can choose the right option "Align to" "Last Selected".
5. Whenever i change my mind and want to align some new objects and use different "Align To" parameter this situation repeats. This is just absurd.

@Psenda You don't first align a book with the window if your intention from the beginning was to align that book with another on the same shelf.

2 hours ago, Callum said:

Perhaps a developer will see this thread and can provide more insight

@Callum Could you at least pass on to the devs a request to consider restoring the previous behavior, taking into account the arguments I presented and the users requests. I know you are a small team and I'm afraid developers don't have much time to read the forum.

[Bit Disappointed]

The whole alignment dialogue irritates me to no end because I intuitively expect something else, like you. It also works differently than in other programs, where it works fine, and it's really interesting why Serif made this version.

Yes, and for the ten thousandth time, it is not the devs who should make this judgement. No, it's a usability specialist, and then a decision must be made about the interface that developers, as specialists in coding - and other disciplines - implement in the best possible technical way;

I remember a comical dialogue in here where a rejection from the Serif team in here of a finding of invalid contrast ratios in Publisher that were impossible to work with was dismissed with a "It's not a bug, it's just the way it's designed", where Ash thankfully intervened and overruled the nonsense.

Then we can quibble about the semantics of bug or not, and waste more of your wonderful life with it, but it's a lousy user interface for alignment. "It's just the way it's designed"; yes, but badly designed.

[Pšenda]

1 hour ago, bbrother said:

By default, the "Align To" option in the Designer is set to "Selection Bounds" and is grayed out.

Yes, that's totally fine. As long as I do not select the type of operation, it is completely irrelevant to enter the parameters of this still unspecified operation. Just as it is not possible to enter Auto distribute or object spacing until the Space horizontally/vertically operation has been selected.
After the first alignment operation, the Last Selected option will be offered as default.

1 hour ago, bbrother said:

Let's say I have two objects and I want to align obj 1 with "Last Selected" obj 2 to the center horizontaly.

No problem - I choose the type of operation (Align Horizontally to Align Centre), set the parameters of the operation (Align To to Last Selected), and press button Apply.

1 hour ago, bbrother said:

When I click the align button the two object will be centered horizontally but first to the "Selection Bounds" not how i wanted "to Last Selected".
All this because I couldn't select "Align to" parameter first because the app did not allow me to do this. 

The objects will not be centered on the Selection Bounds because you did not press the Apply button. Only a preview of the operation will be displayed, which, after specifying the operation parameter to Last Selected (this option is already offered by default during the next alignment of objects), will display the desired centering.

1 hour ago, bbrother said:

Now after the not wanted/intended first align that the software performed automatically i can choose the right option "Align to" "Last Selected".

As mentioned in the previous point, nothing has been aligned yet - it was only a preview of the operation. Only after you select/specify the operation parameter to Last Selected, and "press the Apply button", the operation you requested will be performed.
Otherwise, it is obvious that whatever the order of entering the operations/parameters (or parameters/operations) is, in both cases it is a question of two necessary choices - that is, the same number of steps.

1 hour ago, bbrother said:

Whenever i change my mind and want to align some new objects and use different "Align To" parameter this situation repeats. This is just absurd.

Yes - just like if the input was reversed, i.e. parameters/operations, always two options+Apply. What is absurd about that?

 

1 hour ago, bbrother said:

@Psenda You don't first align a book with the window if your intention from the beginning was to align that book with another on the same shelf.

Yes, I would definitely not align the books to the window, and only then to the middle of the shelf - I would do it straight away in one correct step. That is, entering the operation - align to the center, to the center of what - the bookshelf, pressing Apply.

[bbrother]

2 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

it was only a preview of the operation

Preview an operation that is not expected to be performed is stupid. It's very distracting like i mentioned before.

 

7 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

Yes - just like if the input was reversed, i.e. parameters/operations, always two options+Apply. What is absurd about that?

Preview an operation that is not expected. When you do a lot aligning operations then trust me it's irritating.

 

10 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

That is, entering the operation - align to the center, to the center of what - the bookshelf, pressing Apply.

Are you kidding or what? Before you perform an action you need to know how you do it.
You don't jump headfirst into the pool before you fill it with water.😆

 

24 minutes ago, Bit Arts said:

The whole alignment dialogue irritates me to no end because I intuitively expect something else, like you.

I think many more users are annoyed with this change and the way it currently works. Some of them expressed this by reporting a problem and asking for the changes to be undone. Many people probably waved their hands, not hoping after so long that Serif would admit his mistake.

 

19 minutes ago, Bit Arts said:

Yes, and for the ten thousandth time, it is not the devs who should make this judgement.

In short i have the same opinion. But we don't know who was behind this decision. So i'm not judging.

 

33 minutes ago, Bit Arts said:

I remember a comical dialogue in here where a rejection from the Serif team in here of a finding of invalid contrast ratios in Publisher that were impossible to work with was dismissed with a "It's not a bug, it's just the way it's designed", where Ash thankfully intervened and overruled the nonsense.

UI/UX is as important as code and features because it is the bridge between the user and the program.
The first thing with which the user interacts and which has a significant impact on the experience.

The UI in V2 is beyond bad. It should be presented as an example of how not to design UI. But this is a topic for a separate discussion.

[Bit Disappointed]

Just now, bbrother said:

In short i have the same opinion. But we don't know who was behind this decision. So i'm not judging.

No, but I know for a fact that there are no real UXs involved, and it shows. So it's 99% certain that the wrong person made the decision. I'm going to be magnanimous and leave a 1% chance that that's not the case.

[bbrother]

14 minutes ago, Bit Arts said:

No, but I know for a fact that there are no real UXs involved, and it shows.

We can only guess whether there is or not a UI/UX specialist. But nothing stops them from hiring the right person with appropriately high qualifications.

 

42 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

Only after you select/specify the operation parameter to Last Selected, and "press the Apply button", the operation you requested will be performed.

@Pšenda this is not true. You don't need to press apply to perform the operation. You can simply click outside the panel.

[Bit Disappointed]

1 hour ago, bbrother said:

We can only guess whether there is or not a UI/UX specialist. But nothing stops them from hiring the right person with appropriately high qualifications.

No, my own basis for speaking out is far, far better than guesswork.