Standard text style in new text frames

[RainerH]

Hello,

hope you an help me: Every time I create a new textframe in Publisher the text ist formatted with paragraph format outline level 2 (z. B. 3.1) and character format superscript (a haracter format I createt for superscript text).

How can I adjust, that new text boxes are createt with paragraph format "Standard" (my format for floating text) and no superscrition?

I tried to format a text box with paragraph format standard and no superscription an clicked on . but that doesn'T help

Thank you for your help in Advance.

Rainer

[MikeTO]

To restore back to Publisher's defaults, click outside of a text frame and choose Edit > Defaults > Factory Reset. That will solve it for the current document but then choose Edit > Defaults > Save to make the change permanent for all future documents.

I've explained this on page 104 of my free PDF manual which you can download from the link in my signature.

Cheers

[bbrother]

2 hours ago, RainerH said:

Every time I create a new textframe in Publisher the text ist formatted with paragraph format outline level 2 (z. B. 3.1) and character format superscript (a haracter format I createt for superscript text).

The problem may be that the text frame tool is designed to remember the last settings you applied, unfortunately including the text style changes. Then, when you create a new text frame, the settings from the previous frame are automatically applied.

You can try the solution suggested by MikeTo [Edit > Defaults > Factory Reset] but when you change the frame settings and text style again the problem will come back.

[MikeTO]

13 minutes ago, bbrother said:

The problem may be that the text frame tool is designed to remember the last settings you applied, unfortunately including the text style changes. Then, when you create a new text frame, the settings from the previous frame are automatically applied.

You can try the solution suggested by MikeTo [Edit > Defaults > Factory Reset] but when you change the frame settings and text style again the problem will come back.

I don't consider this a problem*, this is the way many apps have worked for decades. When you set formatting you change the document's session defaults so that the next text object you create has the same formatting. If you want to get back to the default just choose Edit > Defaults > Revert. The solution I provided above was for the times when you inadvertently save formatting as the default but really didn't want it.

If you use text styles and inadvertently create a text object and it's formatted as a heading or caption but you wanted body text, it's easy to fix with a single click in the Text Styles panel. Another good reason to use text styles.

*EDIT - but I have to admit that I dislike the text frame settings are included, I'd rather it just be text formatting. If I set a text frame to 2 columns but then draw a tiny little frame for a caption, it will be 2 columns. And since Affinity lacks true object styles, you can't just apply a new object style to the text frame. Yes, there's the revert button but I have never found the stickiness of text frame settings to be as useful as the stickiness of text formatting.

[bbrother]

16 minutes ago, MikeTO said:

When you set formatting you change the document's session defaults so that the next text object you create has the same formatting. If you want to get back to the default just choose Edit > Defaults > Revert.

In my opinion, there is no problem when you want to create multiple text frames in which you intend to use the same text style or other attributes.
But the problem comes when you want to use different styles, which I think happens more often. Then you have to every time revert to defaults. Its bizzare.

There should be option to turn off that behaviour or it should be redesigned. Remembering text frame setting like fill,border, insets, columns that work should be managed by object styles and text formating by text styles not the text frame itself.

[walt.farrell]

Can't you:

1. Create a Text Frame.
2. Put some text in it, and format that text the way you want it, using the Context Toolbar.
3. Edit > Defaults > Synchronize from Selection, then Edit > Defaults > Save.

I'm sure that's the way I usually do it.

[bbrother]

But @walt.farrell if you make changes after synchronize and save, the defaults in the current session will be overwritten by adding those new changes to the previously saved ones beacause text frame remembers last applied changes.

Therefore, the text frame should not remember the last applied changes. This is the job for object styles. And text style control is the job for text styles. Text frame should only be a container. It would be less confusing.

[MikeTO]

I don't care which way it works personally because I use text styles for everything and once my template is created I never draw another frame. But I'm also used to it because I've used other apps for many years that work the same way. IIRC, InDesign does it slightly differently and only changes the document's current default formatting when nothing is selected so some people switching from ID get tripped up on this.

But both methods are better than simplistic apps like Apple Pages which doesn't even have document defaults.

[bbrother]

2 hours ago, MikeTO said:

I don't care which way it works personally

And it should not. Text frame tool is important in DTP.

2 hours ago, MikeTO said:

But I'm also used to it because I've used other apps for many years that work the same way

The fact that so many other programs work the same way does not mean that they do it well, in a logical and intuitive manner.

2 hours ago, MikeTO said:

InDesign does it slightly differently and only changes the document's current default formatting when nothing is selected so some people switching from ID get tripped up on this

I don't like Adobe for a few reasons and I don't like to compare everything to Indesign, but it must be admitted that this program is the industry standard for a reason.
The text frame tool and other tools have been well thought out in Indesign. On the other hand, in APub you have a tool that tries to be intelligent and helpful, but in consequence it is the opposite.

When a layout is created in a desktop publishing program, the vast majority of text frames contain text with different styles, font sizes, colors, spacing, etc.
The serif team assumed that by default every user wants to create text frames with the same settings and the same text styles, like robot (I don't know on what basis), so have the text frame remember every last change and if necessary, we will let the user use the "Restore Defaults" feature (which by the way is broken due to redraw issues.)

I don't understand how they could make such mistakes. I would advise them to rethink the operation of this tool and seriously consider the proposed changes, i.e.:

• do not remember last aplied changes in text frame for future frame creation
• if not, allow to save defaults in the text frame for settings like fill, borders, insets etc. But do not allow to overwrite those settings when ever the user change something in text frame.
• fix the "revert to defaults text frame redrawing bug"

Attention ☢️:
And finally remember that object styles should do their job and text styles should do their job and the text frame is a container for both.

[walt.farrell]

16 hours ago, bbrother said:

Therefore, the text frame should not remember the last applied changes

That's kind of a catch-22, though. As you look through the forums there are many complaints and requests from users who want tools to remember their last-used settings. Except for sometimes, when they do remember them, there are other complaints/requests that they shouldn't remember them.

 

[bbrother]

8 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

there are many complaints and requests from users who want tools to remember their last-used settings.

They rather complain that it is not possible to customize the default settings for the tools than remembering last used- settings.

[walt.farrell]

17 minutes ago, bbrother said:

They rather complain that it is not possible to customize the default settings for the tools than remembering last used- settings.

No, they complain about both. For example, they have used a tool with certain parameters, then go to use it again, and the parameters have changed.

[DebSki]

I have just started having an issue today with not being able to apply style to pasted text in text frame

Pasted text in. Fine. Went to apply style. Style shows when style selected, but once I apply the style, it reverts back to what was pasted in. If I then create another text frame & paste the text ALL the text is then in the selected style. This wasn't how it was working the other day - I was pasting text & then able to format first line/heading in a different style.

It would also seem that when I draw a new text frame the style selected is always my "title style" but the text pastes in "normal"

Any ideas?

Thanks

[walt.farrell]

20 minutes ago, DebSki said:

but the text pastes in "normal"

Unless you Paste Without Formatting, pasted Text will always keep the style it had in the source document you copied from.

[DebSki]

Thanks, but it's not the pasting (although, how do you paste without formatting? Don't seem to have that as an option).

It's the formatting of the text once I've pasted it. I used to be able to select some or all of the text & change the style, but now that only sometimes works & the selected style showing when the text frame is selected is always the same, no matter what the actual style is.

It's not working as it has been. I've rebooted my PC in case that was the issue, but I'm getting the same thing

[bbrother]

1 hour ago, DebSki said:

If I then create another text frame & paste the text ALL the text is then in the selected style

This is correct. The text frame remembers the last changes that affect the formatting of the text it contains (Remember, you applied a text style before).
The font- size, font-family etc, in the newly created text frame will be initialy set to the values from text style you applied before.

1 hour ago, DebSki said:

It would also seem that when I draw a new text frame the style selected is always my "title style" but the text pastes in "normal"

No. The text style is not glued to the frame only it's font- size, font-family etc are initialy preloaded to the text frame. This is by design.

Now if you start typing you should see text with that "title style".
But if yuo paste formated text from clipboard it wil keep the style it had from the source and it would not apply "title style" .

PS: I know  it's confusing. But after you experiment with it, you will understand why this happens. Another story is that a text frame should not remember recent changes. This is very stupid behavior that cause problems like yours.

[DebSki]

OK, but why when I select some text to apply a style, that style isn't being applied? I'm sure it was working differently the other day

 

[walt.farrell]

6 minutes ago, DebSki said:

OK, but why when I select some text to apply a style, that style isn't being applied? I'm sure it was working differently the other day

 

Are you selecting all the text that you want to change? And how are you specifying the text style? 

Some screenshots or a recording would help us see what's happening.

[MikeTO]

4 hours ago, DebSki said:

OK, but why when I select some text to apply a style, that style isn't being applied? I'm sure it was working differently the other day

Are you using character styles or paragraph styles? Note that the Text Styles panel shows both in the same list.

[DebSki]

I'm using paragraph styles.

I've noticed today that even if I apply a different style to text in text frame, if I create a new text frame, that comes up with the "title style" showing on the toolbar, but when pasting the text in, that goes in in the last selected style. If I then try to apply the title style, whilst when selecting that style, the text changes to that, as soon as I try to select it, it goes back to what the previous style was, but the selected text, on the toolbar is showing as the "title style"

All very confusing for a simple soul like me!

OK. After a bit more messing about it would seem that I only have this problem if I paste from Thunderbird. If I take that text into Word & then copy/paste into APub, then it seems to behave as it did before. Perhaps I've never pasted from TB before. Will always take into Word in future first! 😀

Hope this helps someone else

Thanks

[dl1mgb]

Also an issue here that AP remembers the last changes and mixes up new text frames (also when updating TOC's) with whatever you changed. Very annoying.

I ask myself: Those who are defending this behaviour of AP, shouldn't it be a better approach, if you make changes to a text frame and you need it for future, to create a new text style instead of taking the changes from one frame to the next and hoping that it will not be overwritten by something else?