Publisher: Adjustment layer can't be edited or deleted

[KenNZ]

I'm having an issue where adjustment layers cannot be reedited, deleted or have their visibility changed. This occurs when I apply an adjustment layer to an image in a picture frame object that has been created by a master page. If I create a new picture frame on my page I can create and edit an adjustment layer without issue, but this workaround would defeat the purpose of using master pages.

I have read through this post which sounded similar, but it doesn't appear to help - ie. I am sure I am clicking in the right place etc. After all, I can edit one of the adjustment layers, it is only a specific one that does not appear to work.

Is there some step I am missing, or is this a bug? An example file is attached.

al_test.afpub

[Hangman]

Hi @KenNZ and welcome to the forums,

Because your Levels Adjustment Layer is part of your Master Page you would either need to edit it on the Master Page itself if you want the same Adjustment settings to be applied to all the pages that use that Master Page.

If you want to edit the Levels Adjustment using different settings for each page the Master is applied to then Right Click the ‘Master A - Right’ layer in the Layers panel on the respective page and select Edit Detached, make your adjustments then click Finish in the green bar at the top right of the main window and do that for each page where you need to make unique changes to the Levels Adjustment layer.

You may find it easier to just add a Levels Adjustment to each individual page that requires it in the same way you’ve added your Split Toning Adjustment Layer…

[KenNZ]

Thanks for your explanation and suggestion @Hangman. This appears to provide a way to achieve what I want, though from a workflow or even UI perspective it doesn't make complete sense to me.

It is not clear that the Level's Adjustment layer is considered to be part of the master page, or why it is considered to be such. If it was applied to the picture frame itself I could possibly understand, but rather it appears to be applied to the specific image within the picture frame, and that image is specific to the page it is placed on, not the master layout. Consistent with this, the placed adjustment layer is specific to that specific image on that specific page and does not appear on or affect any other image on any other page with the same master layout applied. Accordingly, I would have thought that the adjustment layer attached to the specific image would be as editable as the image is, and therefore I still considered it to be an issue (both in functionality and design) that it is not.

Put another way, I feel there is a consistency issue: Why is the image not part of the master layout (in the sense that it is editable) but the image's adjustment layer is part of the master layout (in the sense that it is not editable)?

I realise all items are shown descended from the master page on the layer panel, but I see the contents (eg. the specific image) as being part of the page they are placed on rather than a part of the master page.

In case anyone's curious about what am I trying to achieve:
Essentially I am trying to use Affinity Publisher to create a photobook. Master page's will be used for a variety of different picture frame layouts (eg. 3 portait frames, 4 landscape frames, etc) which can then be applied to different pages within the photobook to allow for easy placement of images in a consistent manner. Owning all Affinity apps, I was hoping for a seamless workflow where I can edit specific images that I place as part of the workflow.

[Hangman]

I’m assuming that the Level Adjustment settings used for each image differ rather than all images using identical Level Adjustment settings hence your desire to edit the Level Adjustment values on page.

In general terms anything sitting on the Master Page is ‘fixed’ so you’d add items there that are common to every page that uses that Master though you still have th option to edit Master page items on page that break that rule.

If you’re preparing the images for your photo book in Affinity Photo, I’d personally add a Levels Adjustment to each image in Photo and then add the Affinity Photo file to the respective pages or if adding the images as a TIFF or JPEG to the Photo frame and then add the Level Adjustment in Publisher to each image so you can adjust the values individually for each image as required.

The ‘issue’ having the Levels Adjustment on the Master Page is that when you make any change to the settings on the Master Page those changes will universally affect the images on all pages that Master is applied to.

It’s the same as having a red logo on your Master page, if you then change the colour of that logo colour to Blue it will update on every page using that Master.

Items nested in the Layer or Layers that have a green vertical line to the left of their icon in the Layers panel are Master Page items…

I fully understand what your expectations are but it doesn’t work that way.

Think of objects on the Master Page as being global and objects on individual pages as unique to that page so any change to a global object will be reflected to all pages using that Master.

[KenNZ]

Following your explanations, the workflow that I think will work best for my needs is to set up the master pages as previously mentioned, drop the images onto each page as jpg, and on the handful of images that need a specific tweak I'll add an adjustment layer(s) to the image. If I need to make adjustments to the adjustment layer I'll use 'Edit Detached' or 'Edit Linked' (also seems to work) as required.

I understand the concept of master pages, and I've obviously got to work in with however Publisher currently works. I still think there is room here for Serif to make some improvements for the sake of consistency and user friendliness.

On the bright side, with the exception of a few niggles (including the above) I'm finding it much, much easier to do this in Affinity Publisher than the last time I had to do something similar using Photoshop!

[Pšenda]

11 hours ago, KenNZ said:

Accordingly, I would have thought that the adjustment layer attached to the specific image would be as editable as the image is, and therefore I still considered it to be an issue (both in functionality and design) that it is not.

Just to clarify and confirm that the current implementation (by design) is correct. Imagine that part of your design is that the photo in a certain place on the page (for example chapter title) will "always" be modified in some way - for example, it will be significantly saturated, pixelated, etc. Therefore, you will put this modification directly on the Master Page, so that it is propagated and carried out on all other pages and their pictures. If it were implemented the way you want it, you'd have to make these desirable adjustments on every page and every image, making the concept of "Master" Pages completely meaningless.

[Hangman]

51 minutes ago, KenNZ said:

Following your explanations, the workflow that I think will work best for my needs is to set up the master pages as previously mentioned, drop the images onto each page as jpg, and on the handful of images that need a specific tweak I'll add an adjustment layer(s) to the image. If I need to make adjustments to the adjustment layer I'll use 'Edit Detached' or 'Edit Linked' (also seems to work) as required.

Can I ask why you don't just make the adjustments to all the photos you intend to include in your Photo Book in Affinity Photo, then export the finished images to JPEG and drop these into your Publisher document without the need for any additional Adjustment layers?

That is certainly the approach I would adopt though I appreciate you may have your reasons for doing things the way you've described.

Be careful with 'Edit Linked' as any changes you make on an individual page to a single image will also update the settings on the Master Page and subsequently all other pages using that Master, 'Edit Detached' will only update the image on that individual page without impacting other pages using the same Master.

[KenNZ]

@Pšenda Perhaps I have been unclear in my explanation. I understand the concept of the master page, and if I wanted to achieve what you describe I would apply an adjustment layer to the picture frame on the master layout - for example an adjustment layer that completely desaturates the image. If I do this it works as expected, and every picture placed into the relevant picture frame on any page that uses that master layout comes out in greyscale as anticipated.

What I am talking about however, is an adjustment layer that is only applied to the specific image that is placed into the picture frame. This adjustment layer only affects that specific image and does not affect any other image on any other page that uses the master layout. This also works as I would expect. I see this adjustment layer as forming part of the 'content' that is placed into the picture frame, rather than a part of the picture frame or its master layout. Regardless, and in spite of Publisher recognising the placed image as 'content' that you are allowed to edit, it locks down the content's 'content' (as it were, namely its unique adjustment layer) as though it was a part of the master layout. This I find undesirable and unfriendly.

@Hangman Thanks for the further clarification. I will follow your advice regarding using 'Edit Detached' rather than 'Edit Linked.' Please excuse my ignorance of the finer details of the software and thank you for your patience.

With regards to making adjustments to the images before placing them in Publisher, you are most likely correct in your approach. I guess I was anticipating that only a handful of images would require changes, I could do these changes in a seamless integrated manner from within publisher, while leaving the source images untouched, and without having to have duplicate 'edited' images stored as well. Perhaps one of the other considerations was that I am still in a draft stage of placing, rearranging, and changing images. Of course, the obvious suggestion might be that when I have finished all this, I should then do the edits in Photo and update the images, which should also be linked rather than embedded...

I would suggest that there may be occasions when it would be useful to edit an image in its Publisher context where the immediate feedback of adjustment layers etc like I have used could be desirable, even if it is the exception rather than the rule (and in my specific photobook case I agree it is not the exception).

[Hangman]

47 minutes ago, KenNZ said:

Of course, the obvious suggestion might be that when I have finished all this, I should then do the edits in Photo and update the images, which should also be linked rather than embedded...

That is I think the most sensible approach as it then allows for seamless updates between Photo and Publisher...

47 minutes ago, KenNZ said:

I would suggest that there may be occasions when it would be useful to edit an image in its Publisher context where the immediate feedback of adjustment layers etc like I have used could be desirable, even if it is the exception rather than the rule (and in my specific photobook case I agree it is not the exception).

I think you have a couple of options...

1. Make the edits in Photo until you're happy, export to JPEG or TIFF then add to your Publisher Document. You still have the option of adding an Adjustment Layer to the image on page in Publisher should you feel further tweaks are needed.
    
2. With 'Automatically update Linked Resources when modified externally' enabled in Publisher, make the edits in Photo, save as .afphoto files and place these in your Publisher document as Linked or Embedded files then if further tweaks are required you can simply select 'Edit Document' in the Main Toolbar to edit the image and switch to Publisher's Photo Persona to make your adjustments or go back to Affinity Photo, edit the file and resave using the same filename. Both will auto-update the image in your Publisher document.

This also maintains a non-destructive workflow.

[lepr]

20 hours ago, KenNZ said:

Put another way, I feel there is a consistency issue: Why is the image not part of the master layout (in the sense that it is editable) but the image's adjustment layer is part of the master layout (in the sense that it is not editable)?

Yes, there is inconsistency and it is a bug. You have received flawed excuses/explanations and workarounds that should not be necessary.

When a Content object (an Image, for example) of a Master Page's Picture Frame is accessible on a regular page without a requirement of invoking Edit Linked/Detached, a child (Adjustment or Mask, for example) of that Content object should be equally accessible, but instead the child wrongly has the same restricted accessibility as a non-Content child of the Master Page's Picture Frame.

As you know, we can add a child to the Content object of a Master Page's Picture Frame when we work on a regular page without invoking Edit Linked/Detached, and immediately edit that child before it becomes deselected, which is sensible. It is nonsensical for that child of the Content object to later be uneditable without invoking Edit Linked/Detached.

A bug.

 

[Hangman]

1 hour ago, lepr said:

You have received flawed excuses/explanations and suggested workarounds that should not be necessary.

From the Help file...

Quote

Picture frame (parent) and content (child) relationship

A picture frame, like any other object, can act as a parent clipping object for any number of child objects. In the case of picture frames, though, only one child object can be flagged as the framed ‘content’. This object is indicated in the Layers panel by a box containing a diagonal cross, overlaid on its layer thumbnail.

By default, you can't transform or change the properties of a master page's picture frames and text frames themselves as only the frame content can be edited on a publication page; the frame itself is locked by default. Detaching the master page lets you do this instead.

An adjustment layer applied to a picture frame on a Master page is a property of the picture frame, not its content, in the same way, applying a stroke or a fill to a picture frame on a Master page is a property of the picture frame... The stroke and fill can't be edited on the publication page without first detaching the master page, the same applies to an adjustment layer...

[lepr]

1 hour ago, Hangman said:

From the Help file...

Quote

Picture frame (parent) and content (child) relationship

A picture frame, like any other object, can act as a parent clipping object for any number of child objects. In the case of picture frames, though, only one child object can be flagged as the framed ‘content’. This object is indicated in the Layers panel by a box containing a diagonal cross, overlaid on its layer thumbnail.

By default, you can't transform or change the properties of a master page's picture frames and text frames themselves as only the frame content can be edited on a publication page; the frame itself is locked by default. Detaching the master page lets you do this instead.

An adjustment layer applied to a picture frame on a Master page is a property of the picture frame, not its content, in the same way, applying a stroke or a fill to a picture frame on a Master page is a property of the picture frame... The stroke and fill can't be edited on the publication page without first detaching the master page, the same applies to an adjustment layer...

 

You are still not understanding why there is a bug.

The software correctly restricts access to an Adjustment that is a child of the Picture Frame itself - Edit Linked/Detached or opening the Master Page is required for accessing that Adjustment. Good so far.

The bug is that the same restriction is wrongly applied to an Adjustment that is a child of the unrestricted Content object of the Picture Frame, not a child of the Picture Frame itself. The child of the unrestricted Content object should be as unrestricted as its parent, but it isn't.

[Dan C]

20 hours ago, lepr said:

The bug is that the same restriction is wrongly applied to an Adjustment that is a child of the unrestricted Content object of the Picture Frame, not a child of the Picture Frame itself. The child of the unrestricted Content object should be as unrestricted as its parent, but it isn't.

Just to confirm, the above is logged with our development team and I have 'bumped' this with them now to bring it to their attention once again

[cTHULHU]

Just fallen into this pit-trap myself. So it looks like its not fixed yet and there have been several point releases this year. Adjusting images on a page is such a common use case and the whole UI makes it look like the adjustment is part of the picture because its nested in the picture and the picture can be modified. I had to get help on the forum to get out of this problem as the Edit detached workaround is not obvious and you have to select the Picture Frame too. Otherwise you are stuck with an adjustment you can't change or remove or turn off. I only got out of the pit-trap by using undo.

[robotriot]

I just encountered this very same problem, and it would great if this could be fixed. It doesn't seem logical at all, the way it is handled in the UI right now. Especially since when I right-click the adjustment, I do get the option "Edit Adjustment" in the context menu - yet clicking on this does nothing. This option should preferably do what it says or be disabled, if it leads nowhere!

[Affinity Info Bot]

The issue "Unable to delete, hide or edit adjustment layers used on picture frames applied from master page" (REF: AF-1532) has been fixed by the developers in the latest beta build (2.6.2.3228). The fix is planned for inclusion in the next customer release.
Customer beta builds are announced here and you can participate by following these instructions.
If you still experience this problem once you are using that build version (or later) please reply to this thread including @Affinity Info Bot to notify us.

[Pšenda]

On 1/17/2025 at 11:39 AM, robotriot said:

or be disabled, if it leads nowhere!

This shortcoming - that the context menu does not respect the context/state of the application, is unfortunately common in Affinity.