bleed prints grayscale on color image -- publisher 2.3.0

[SueC]

I have two images here that are RGB scans of grayscale images with a recolor layer to make them sepia. When output in publisher to pdf Press Ready setting the bleed shows up but the recolor layer on one image is grayscale while the other is normal. I've checked both images they are identical, just those two layers. Is this a bug? How to fix or what's the work around? Why one image not the other?  Weird.

EDIT: I will also note that this is happening on every spread and JUST the images on the left page are doing it. Exported as single pages JUST the left (even number) pages are doing it the right pages are fine.

MacBook pro , AFPublisher 2.3.0, AFPhoto 2.3.0

PDF of spread, settings screenshot

 

pg36-37.pdf

[loukash]

There were a couple of (long overdue!) bugfixes in 2.3.0 affecting bleed, but obviously not all were fixed yet…  

 

 

30 minutes ago, SueC said:

this is happening on every spread and JUST the images on the left page are doing it

A quick workaround for the time being will likely be flattening the images to a raster layer.

[Dan C]

Hi @SueC,

Thanks for your report!

I'm having trouble replicating this issue here currently - are you able to provide a copy of this .afpub file so that I can investigate further?

If you'd like to a private upload link for this file, please don't hesitate to ask

[SueC]

Hi Dan, Thanks for following up. Here is a couple of pages from that file with the bleed problem. I'll be interested to hear of the solution.

 

BleedTest-Package.zip

[SueC]

Just as a test. I also output a spread with two flat rgb .afphoto images—with no layers. The bleed issue did not occur—normal 4-color bleed. The above issue is happening with .afphoto images with two layers. So I believe the issue has to do with the layers. 

I also note that I came across the bug that Publisher does not wrap text around images with layers either. That is, images that use a mask/alpha channel to achieve the transparent background. I'm wondering if this is a related issue?

[Hangman]

Hi @SueC,

On initial testing, this appears to be a potential Affinity Photo bug, though that's not conclusive...

I recreated both your images by removing the Recolour layer and then exported the source images as Tiff files. I opened the exported Tiff files in Photo 2.3.0, 2.0.4, 1.10.6 and 1.7.3, reapplied the Recolour Adjustment layer using identical settings, saved them as .afphoto files and then added the .afphoto files to a new Affinity Publisher 2.3.0 document...

The only version that exports the bleed correctly is the one with the .afphoto files created in 1.7.3 which seems somewhat odd.

The issue is even more pronounced if you switch the left and right images...

Bleed Test Original Images Switched.pdf

I have a feeling there may already be a known issue with Adjustment layers not being correctly applied to Bleed but something very odd is going on...

There is also a huge discrepancy between the exported PDF file sizes, the export using the Affinity Photo Original Images is 13.8 Mb (though the file size of the original images is over double the size of my exported Tiff files), from 2.3.0, 2.0.4 and 1.10.6 it is 10.7 Mb and from 1.7.3 it is 4.2 Mb, despite all the Tiff files being the same size.

All use the identical export settings in Publisher 2.3.0.

Could you perhaps export the individual spreads in the attached Publisher 2.3.0 file and see if you see the same results I'm seeing...

New Bleed Test.zip

Bleed Test Original Images.pdf

Bleed Test 2.3.0 Images.pdf

Bleed Test 2.0.4 Images.pdf

Bleed Test 1.10.6 Images.pdf

Bleed Test 1.7.3 Images.pdf

 

[SueC]

Very interesting. I output the file you sent back (called New Bleed Test-Sue) and got the same results you did. I did another PDF with the images all saved in AFPhoto 2.3.0 as afp, layered tiff, flattened tiff, and jpg. The layered tiff worked fine! (called Bleed Test-all-Sue) The flat Tiff and Jpgs also fine. I also included in this file the original afp images switched pages left to right and did not get the weird cutoff of the recolor layer on the right. Instead it's just like my original problem on the left page with the other image this time. 

It sort seems like the afp 2.3.0 images are getting the layer clipping mask (for lack of what else to call it) misinterpreted on export to PDF. The coordinates of the corners are off—but that happens on only one page or the other???

Well at least I now know that I can save the images as Tiff or jpg and it'll work. For these historical images there is NO appreciable difference in the printed quality of a jpg to a Tiff or to the AFP. But the jpg = 9MB, Tiff = 15MB, and AFP = 63 MB for the same image! I have to upload the PDF to Amazon for printing in one file and seriously that IS an issue. So I am thinking I will send flattened jpgs for as many as I can. The pdf will be huge with over 500 images. It means two sets of images (working, and final flat ones for placement) but that seems a good sacrifice.

The question I have: is there any real advantage to having native afphoto images in the publisher doc? I have NOT found the whole "photo persona" thing within Publisher to be very useful—or even intelligible to me. I'd rather just go to the full Photo program and do what needs doing and reimport the image. How do you all use it?

Hopefully they'll fix this weird issue soon.

I really appreciate that the community is willing to help troubleshoot!. Love you guys!

(This is my first Affinity project, though I've been doing this over 30 years with the other guys—I feel like a n00b!)

Bleed Test-all-Sue.pdf NewBleedTest-Sue.pdf

[Hangman]

33 minutes ago, SueC said:

It sort seems like the afp 2.3.0 images are getting the layer clipping mask (for lack of what else to call it) misinterpreted on export to PDF. The coordinates of the corners are off—but that happens on only one page or the other???

I don't believe it's a clipping mask issue, (though I did ponder the same when initially testing) because I tested both using a clipping mask and a Photo frame... The version of the file I sent you uses a Photo frame rather than a clipping mask...

35 minutes ago, SueC said:

Well at least I now know that I can save the images as Tiff or jpg and it'll work. For these historical images there is NO appreciable difference in the printed quality of a jpg to a Tiff or to the AFP. But the jpg = 9MB, Tiff = 15MB, and AFP = 63 MB for the same image! I have to upload the PDF to Amazon for printing in one file and seriously that IS an issue. So I am thinking I will send flattened jpgs for as many as I can. The pdf will be huge with over 500 images. It means two sets of images (working, and final flat ones for placement) but that seems a good sacrifice.

I think that makes a lot of sense based on the nature of the source images...

36 minutes ago, SueC said:

The question I have: is there any real advantage to having native afphoto images in the publisher doc? I have NOT found the whole "photo persona" thing within Publisher to be very useful—or even intelligible to me. I'd rather just go to the full Photo program and do what needs doing and reimport the image. How do you all use it?

I'm sure there are though I'm struggling to think of any right now... If you are using linked images then if you have 'Automatically update linked resources when modified externally' checked in the Publisher Settings/Preferences then I see little advantage in this particular case of using placed .afphoto files (though I'm sure someone will correct me). Any changes you make to the TIFF or JPG files in Affinity Photo will be auto-updated in your Publisher doc plus, as you've highlighted, the files are much smaller which with your use case is a big plus...

40 minutes ago, SueC said:

Hopefully they'll fix this weird issue soon.

I'm sure once picked up we'll receive some feedback from someone in the Moderation team, it would certainly be helpful to understand if this is a genuine bug and if so, if it's not already, for it to be logged as such...

41 minutes ago, SueC said:

This is my first Affinity project, though I've been doing this over 30 years with the other guys—I feel like a n00b!

Likewise, over 30 years doing this but we've all had that n00b feeling I think at one point or other, so you're certainly not alone...

[SueC]

Re: "clipping mask". I Just meant the way AFPhoto defines the edges of the recolor layer. It's not a Mask per se, nor is there a mask in publisher. Though the distinction between a "picture frame" and just importing the image without a "picture frame" is a bit murky to me. 

Thanks for helping me think this through.

[Hangman]

When I look at your original Publisher file, because the image’s themselves are larger than the space they occupy on page, expanding the respective layers reveals a layer mask which is the reference I was referring to. I’m assuming these were perhaps created in Photo prior to placing in Publisher to dictate the size of the placed images in Publisher? Regardless though, it appears to make no difference in as much as when using a specifically sized picture frame the bug still persists…

That’s no trouble at all, happy to help if I can, it’s still an odd bug and hopefully one that will get logged to be fixed in a future update…

 

[loukash]

I haven't fully read the followup posts, but…

On 12/4/2023 at 6:08 PM, SueC said:

Here is a couple of pages from that file with the bleed problem. I'll be interested to hear of the solution.

In Photo, don't position the adjustment above the image layer.
Drag the adjustment over the image thumbnail so that it masks it.
Or group both layers.
Just don't let them "float freely".
That should already work around the bleed bug.

On 12/4/2023 at 6:19 PM, SueC said:

The above issue is happening with .afphoto images with two layers. So I believe the issue has to do with the layers. 

I vaguely remember that we (i.e. another forum member and me) have already inspected and reported similar issues before.

On 12/4/2023 at 6:19 PM, SueC said:

Publisher does not wrap text around images with layers either. That is, images that use a mask/alpha channel to achieve the transparent background. I'm wondering if this is a related issue?

I don't know if related, but I've observed a similar phenomenon while experimenting with my "accidental vectorizer feature".

5 hours ago, SueC said:

is there any real advantage to having native afphoto images in the publisher doc?

There could be a benefit e.g. if you colaborate with other folks who take care of the images while you take care of the layout. (Being a deliberate "loner" when it comes to design work, I don't have much experience in that…)

For the images in your example layout, I wouldn't have bothered saving as *.afphoto at all. I would have placed them into picture frames and added the adjustments directly as a "mask" so that they affect only each respective image and nothing else.

Layer hierarchy matters.  

5 hours ago, SueC said:

I have NOT found the whole "photo persona" thing within Publisher to be very useful—or even intelligible to me. I'd rather just go to the full Photo program and do what needs doing and reimport the image. How do you all use it?

You can to almost anything just like in the primary APh persona, unless you need to save as *.afphoto. But even then, you simply quickly switch via File → Edit In Photo and save. If you need Photo's other personae, then you need to work directly in APh, of course. I often use the Panorama persona to stitch multiple scans (large images that don't fit onto a standard scanner, that is). For this, APh is my starting point, but after editing everything I only export as a flattened JPEG and discard any native Affinity edits.

[Hangman]

7 hours ago, loukash said:

In Photo, don't position the adjustment above the image layer.
Drag the adjustment over the image thumbnail so that it masks it.

This is indeed a workaround for this bug having just tested it as is grouping... I'm slightly surprised the bug appears to have existed since v1.10.6.

[Dan C]

Thanks for your files @SueC & my apologies for the delayed response here!

I can confirm I've been able to replicate this issue and I've logged it with our development team to be resolved. Hopefully the above workaround suggestions should allow you to resolve this in the meantime

[SueC]

Thanks, all. I am learning about the eccentricities of the programs. I do not fully understand the picture frame vs importing images without the frame, but I'll persevere. An additional thing I think should really be addressed is the size of those AFP files. Holy cow!

But I've figured out a workflow that will work for me—thanks your help.

[loukash]

3 hours ago, SueC said:

I do not fully understand the picture frame vs importing images without the frame

Picture frames have a bunch of "goodies" in the context toolbars designed specifically for this purpose:
https://affinity.help/publisher2/en-US.lproj/pages/Tools/tools_pictureFrameRectangle.html