Negative values of less than 1 pica aren't displayed properly in text fields

[MikeTO]

1. Create a document and set it to picas.
2. Draw a shape and using the Transform panel, set its X coordinate to -1p. The value will be applied and shown in the panel.
3. Set its X coordinate to -0p11 or any value less than -1p. The value will be applied but shown in the panel as a positive value, such as 0p11. Obviously this gets confusing when you then edit the value again.

I originally noticed this in Paragraph > Decorations > Indent but it's really easy to see just by dragging a shape off the page. As you approach the left edge of the page the X values approach 0 and then start increasing again until you reach 1p at which point it suddenly jumps from 0p11.9 to -1p0.1.

[Dan C]

Thanks for your report @MikeTO! 

I've been able to replicate this across both macOS and Windows and I'm getting it logged with our devs now.

I'm not personally au fait with the Pica measuring system - out of interest would you expect this to show -0p11, or 0p-11 for your given example? 

[MikeTO]

1 hour ago, Dan C said:

Thanks for your report @MikeTO! 

I've been able to replicate this across both macOS and Windows and I'm getting it logged with our devs now.

I'm not personally au fait with the Pica measuring system - out of interest would you expect this to show -0p11, or 0p-11 for your given example? 

Definitely -0p11

Publisher shows the negative sign in the correct position for larger values (e.g., -2p6) and it positions the negative sign correctly for other units. I think it's just the combination of a negative sign before a 0 with this oddball measurement unit.

If I was European I'd definitely use metric but it's better to use picas in North America, if you have learned them, because you they're a multiple of how type is measured and perfectly sized to avoid fractional values. 1p3 is nicer than 0.208 in.

[Dan C]

Thanks for confirming, I had suspected as much but wanted to be certain - mostly for my own knowledge

[MikeTO]

On 11/9/2023 at 9:20 AM, Dan C said:

Thanks for confirming, I had suspected as much but wanted to be certain - mostly for my own knowledge

Could you add another variation to this bug? It's a bit more serious than the cosmetic issue of a missing negative sign. Normally if you perform an operation in Transform without retaining the original value, what you enter will be applied to the original value. For example, if the value is 12.345 mm and you replace that with -1, the result will be in 11.345 mm.

But if you replace 12p6 with -p6, instead of getting 12p you get -0p6 displayed as 0p6. Replacing 12p6 with -0p6 works correctly and results in 12p.

Thanks

[Hangman]

9 hours ago, MikeTO said:

But if you replace 12p6 with -p6, instead of getting 12p you get -0p6 displayed as 0p6. Replacing 12p6 with -0p6 works correctly and results in 12p.

That depends on whether you're referencing the X, Y or the W, H values in the Transform panel...

If the former then replacing X: 12.345 mm with -1 correctly results in X: -1 mm, if you replace W: 12.345 mm with -1 the result will still be W: 12.345 mm, the same is true for pica values, so replacing X: 12p6 with -0p6 (or -p6) correctly results in -0p6 displayed as 0p6, likewise replacing 12p6 with -0p6 (or -p6) will result in 12p6...

To give you a value of 11.345 mm for all transform values you would need to type '12.345 mm - 1', the same for pica, to give you a value of 12p you would need to type '12p6 -p6'...

If I replace X: 12p6 with -0p6 (or -p6) this results in X: 0p6 whereas X: 12p6 -0p6 = 12p
If I replace W: 12p6 with -0p6 (or -p6) this results in W: 12p6 whereas W: 12p6 -0p6 = 12p

 

[MikeTO]

I did mean for both X/Y and W/H but after reading the help page I see now what the issue is, I came to the wrong conclusion based on too limited of testing.

When you replace the text in the field with a new value you're supposed to type +=1 if you want to increase by 1 and -=1 if you want to decrease by 1. I expected it to allow me to type +1 and -1. I expected this based on other apps and because +1 works fine. -1 doesn't work and you must type -=.

So it's not a bug since it's not supported and it affects all measurement units, not just picas, but it would be nice and reduce confusion to make it work since it works for +.

Using inches or mm with a shape of X:3 and Y:3, entering +1 results in 4 but -1 results in -1.

[Hangman]

42 minutes ago, MikeTO said:

Using inches or mm with a shape of X:3 and Y:3, entering +1 results in 4 but -1 results in -1.

However, you need to distinguish between selecting the value in the value field and tabbing to the value field as these give different results...

If your starting point is...

Entering +1 or += 1 in the X, Y, W and H boxes results in...

 

But if your starting point is...

Entering +1 or += 1 in the X, Y, W and H boxes results in...

 

Regardless of your starting point...

Entering -1 or in the X, Y, W and H boxes results in...

Entering -= 1 or in the X, Y, W and H boxes results in...

[MikeTO]

Yes, that's the old focus issue. I always start with selected text because I'm clicking into the panel to add or subtract from a value.