Endnotes end of Section

[mogsie]

If I create several sections in the document and choose "Shared section frame" all the notes come at the end of the document, just as they were for "shared document frame". I assumed that "Shared Section Frame" would put the notes after each section. Is this wrong? It's the same in both the Beta and in 2.2.1.

The notes renumber correctly, starting at 1 for each section, but all the notes are together at the end of the document.

[Hangman]

Hi @mogsie,

I have to say I'm seeing the same issue regardless of how the document is set up, Endnotes always only appear at the end of the document regardless of using the Document Wide 'Shared Section Frame' option for a multi-section document...

[MikeTO]

I've confirmed the issue and here's a test document.

1. This test doc has two sections, pages 1-3 in section One and pages 4-6 in section Two. The notes from both sections are both in a frame at the end of section 1 which is obviously incorrect.
2. With nothing selected, change the document-wide formatting for endnotes for Positioning > Note Position to Shared Document Frame. This works as expected, the frame on section 1, page 3, is gone and there is an endnotes frame on section 2, page 6. Perfect.
3. With nothing selected, change the document-wide formatting for endnotes for Positioning > Note Position to Shared Section Frame. The frame at the end of section 1 is recreated and now it just has its two notes which is correct. But section 2 has two endnotes frames and neither has an Endnotes title. The first of the two notes is on page 6 and the second is on page 5.

notes.afpub

[mogsie]

I have tried what you said, and my notes never budged from the end of the document. I have 4 sections, a lot of text and a lot of notes. It just wont put the notes anywhere except at the end of the document. End of story seems to work.

Also, I opened your test file and and did what you said. The first section notes came in at the end of section 1, but the Section Two notes had the first note on page 9 and the second note on page 8.

[Hangman]

40 minutes ago, MikeTO said:

With nothing selected, change the document-wide formatting for endnotes for Positioning > Note Position to Shared Section Frame. The frame at the end of section 1 is recreated and now it just has its two notes which is correct. But section 2 has two endnotes frames and neither has an Endnotes title. The first of the two notes is on page 6 and the second is on page 5.

In addition, which is what I saw when testing earlier, both endnotes now appearing on pages 5 and 6 are numbered [0]...

[Hangman]

Hi @MikeTO,

This overall approach isn't working for me either...

Attached are two Publisher documents each with four sections. The only difference between the two is that one has a blank page at the end of each section, the other doesn't. As @mogsie when initially creating the Endnotes they are all automatically added at the end of the document regardless of the Endnotes positioning setting.

Applying the steps in your earlier post makes no difference for me... Are we missing something obvious or is this simply a bug?

This isn't unique to the current Beta, it's the same in 2.0.4 and 2.2.1 as well.

Section Endnotes.afpub

Section Endnotes with Blank Pages.afpub

[MikeTO]

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I wasn't providing steps to solve the problem but to demonstrate the bug. This is definitely a bug and not working as expected.

[DWright]

This issues has been raised with our developers before and this behaviour is expected when working with a single story, if you use a different story for each of the sections the endnotes will then appear after these stories.

If you believe that this option for a single story will be beneficial can you please raise this ad a feature request.

[mogsie]

I'm not sure what the point of sections is if you can't put endnotes at the end of a section. For me that would be the point of sections.

Is there any way to define a story in a document which is imported as a single story? Like you can define sections?

[MikeTO]

48 minutes ago, DWright said:

This issues has been raised with our developers before and this behaviour is expected when working with a single story, if you use a different story for each of the sections the endnotes will then appear after these stories.

I agree that it should work that way when working with a single story but the test file I uploaded has one story per section and it's not working. I think it used to work in 2.0 or 2.1 when I wrote the section on endnotes in my manual because I tested it then, but I can't say for certain now.

34 minutes ago, mogsie said:

I'm not sure what the point of sections is if you can't put endnotes at the end of a section. For me that would be the point of sections.

Is there any way to define a story in a document which is imported as a single story? Like you can define sections?

Spanning a story across sections isn't a good idea. Publisher allows it but it leads to issues and confusion. A section is a grouping of pages and if a story spans sections then sometimes a paragraph with an endnote might be in section 1 and sometimes it will be in section 2.

The "Shared Section Frame" option can't work with a single story because it creates a frame at the end of the story. There's nowhere to put that frame if the story is spanning the last page of section 1 to the first page of section 2.

If you import text into Publisher as a single story and want to divide it into multiple sections you would need to break it up manually.

[DWright]

Hi @MikeTO thank you for the information I will retest with your files and if I can duplicate this I will log this as a new issue with our developers

[Hangman]

44 minutes ago, MikeTO said:

I agree that it should work that way when working with a single story but the test file I uploaded has one story per section and it's not working. I think it used to work in 2.0 or 2.1 when I wrote the section on endnotes in my manual because I tested it then, but I can't say for certain now.

This does work but you need to select 'Separate Frame' rather than 'Shared Selection Frame'...

I now understand the logic of 'Shared Selection Frame' and it makes perfect sense when used in conjunction with Sections...

 

[mogsie]

Another test file with real endnotes. It doesn't work for sections. But when I asked it to place the notes at the end of sections, it put in several blank pages before the notes, which were still all together at the end. (I deleted the blank pages.)

In a separate file, I tried putting the sections in as separate stories and the file got into a real mess. It didn't work for sections, and then it wouldn't work for "end of story" either, or for anything else.

testing sections.afpub

[MikeTO]

For now I'd suggest using one story per section and using the end of story option. If you want, you can add a page break before the start of the endnotes. That will accomplish the same thing and avoid any issues.

Cheers

[mogsie]

Chopping up a file and putting it in in bits is a pain. There should be a way to identify stories in a single file.

But if this is the way to put endnotes at the end of a story/section, what is the point of having sections at all? The only other reason I can think of is to have different running heads. But that is easily accomplished with different master pages.

[MikeTO]

8 minutes ago, mogsie said:

Chopping up a file and putting it in in bits is a pain. There should be a way to identify stories in a single file.

But if this is the way to put endnotes at the end of a story/section, what is the point of having sections at all? The only other reason I can think of is to have different running heads. But that is easily accomplished with different master pages.

The only reasons to use sections are to use different page numbering formats, to restart page numbering, and to insert a section name automatically onto the page. They are a fairly limited feature.

There's no way to identify story break points when importing a file from another application if it doesn't support separate stories. For example, if you import from InDesign's IDML the separate stories will come in but from MS Word it can't do that because Word only has a single story.

It's not difficult to break a single story up manually but it's not simple. What a lot of people request is the ability to place the cursor in a story and direct Publisher to break the story at that point. That feature doesn't exist at this time so you have to do it manually.

[mogsie]

But Word does do Sections, and you can  put notes at the end of sections. I suppose sections in Word are stories.

 

 

 

 

 

[Hangman]

1 hour ago, mogsie said:

But Word does do Sections, and you can  put notes at the end of sections. I suppose sections in Word are stories.

I have to say, likewise, Apple Pages handles this extremely well with a single story and allows you to easily move complete sections to a new location...

I think Publisher is basically missing an Insert > Section Endnote option...

 

[Old Bruce]

56 minutes ago, Hangman said:

I have to say, likewise, Apple Pages handles this extremely well with a single story and allows you to easily move complete sections to a new location...

I think Publisher is basically missing an Insert > Section Endnote option...

Publisher's Sections are based on Page numbers. Page's Sections are (instructions(?)) in the text.

[Hangman]

18 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

Publisher's Sections are based on Page numbers. Page's Sections are (instructions(?)) in the text.

I'm not entirely sure what 'Page's Sections are (instructions(?)) in the text' means but what Apple Pages has that Publisher is missing is Insert > Section Break and Insert > Section Endnote, both of which are incredibly intuitive and effective in Pages but sadly don't translate when exporting as a .docx file and importing into Publisher but equally hopefully something that we may see in the future, hence @DWright's suggestion of raising this as a feature request...

[MikeTO]

6 hours ago, mogsie said:

But Word does do Sections, and you can  put notes at the end of sections. I suppose sections in Word are stories.

Although the terms are the same, there is nothing in common between a section in Word and a section in Publisher. A section in Word is a break in the middle of its single story. A section in Publisher is a grouping of pages regardless of the stories on those pages.

[mogsie]

I think maybe the only way to accomplish this is to keep all the chapters or parts of the book separate and use the Book option.