Designer 2 Select same and Edit All Layers not working

[Paul De Bie]

Hi, I updated to Designer 2.2, hoping that this problem that was present in V1 would have been solved. But it is still there.

I am working on drawings that were originally PDF documents with different layers already.

For each of those layers, I need to group objects (most of them curves) in order to separate them from the rest and change their style (colour, stroke). 

So I select one object on that specific layer and then select same, stroke weight, equal (could also be a selection based on colour etc). 

With "Edit all Layers" not activated, I would expect and hope that it would only select the objects of the actual layer. That's what the Help says, anyway.

However, it selects all objects accross all layers.  So all grouping and/or transformation becomes impossible because it will affect all layers and not just the layer I am working on.

Help says: 

Edit All Layers and Select Same/Select Object

The behaviour of the Select Same and Select Object commands depends on the Edit All Layers setting on the Layers panel:

• When the setting is enabled, the Select Same/Select Object commands will match objects across all artboards.
• When the setting is disabled, the Select Same/Select Object commands will match only objects on the current artboard.

What exactly is meant by "artboard" ? If a layer is considered to be one, then clearly the Edit All Layers setting is NOT working as it should.

I tried hiding all layer except for the one on which I need to work. Same result...

I tried locking all the layers one by one, except for the layer on which I need to work. It still selects objects accross all of the layers and even more, I can move/transform or change the attributes and it will again affect all selected objects, even the ones on locked layers. (Help says: Lock/Unlock—Click to lock or unlock selected items to prevent accidental selection and transformation.)  I would expect that locking a layer or group would lock also all individual objects of that parent - otherwise it becomes a nightmare to lock all of them individually.

Or I am missing something obvious, or this seems really broken. And I am completely stuck and loosing many hours (and days) because the drawing contains thousands of objects. It would be so easy, a matter of minutes when that "Edit all layers" would work as it was supposed to. 

 

regards

 

Paul

 

 

 

 

 

[walt.farrell]

3 hours ago, Paul De Bie said:

With "Edit all Layers" not activated, I would expect and hope that it would only select the objects of the actual layer. That's what the Help says, anyway.

And that's how it works for me, I think.

I'm curious. You say your PDF has Layers already. After you Open it using Designer, does the Layers panel show those Layers? Can you show us a screenshot that includes the Layers panel?

[Paul De Bie]

Hi Walt,

thanks for your reply. Yes the PDF file has layers (and in some of those layers, groups).  This file - which is a plan (topographic map) of a cave system, needs to be integrated in a much bigger drawing. 10x bigger, and very very complex (over 100 km of cave passages). I need to rescale it, recoulor parts of it, adjust stroke weights (making care that there are still thin and thick strokes - and there lies the problem, because in they are mixed in the same layers. So Select same stroke weight would be a very quick way to regroup them. 

Here are some screenshots:

Print01 = the PDF after opening it, with the layers visible

Print02 = One specific layer that I need to select/regroupd/change the stroke widths for called Plan2011

Print03 = One curve selected and then Select Same, Stroke Weight, Equal (with Node tool activated so it's more clear what is selected. Move tool gives same result). 

Print04 = the result: every object in all layers is selected  (and the button "Edit all layers" on or off makes no difference)

Print05 = Changed the color, instead of changing only PLan2011 layer, everything changes...

I can send you the PDF, but I cannot do this over a public forum because it is not mine. Can I PM it? 

 

many thanks again,

 

Paul

 

[walt.farrell]

Thanks, @Paul De Bie.

I was sure that Select Same obeyed the Edit All Layers function, but I just tried a sample document and it doesn't. I've probably misremembered, and become confused by the case where it does work, which is for Artboards rather than Layers.

Sorry.

I agree that it would be good if Edit All Layers applied to Layers (not just Artboards), as its name implies it should

[lepr]

4 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

it would be good if Edit All Layers applied to Layers (not just Artboards) [for Select Same and Select Object commands]

Agreed 100%. I have today, again, had to perform a ridiculous workaround because of that situation.

Another infuriating omission for these commands is a toggle for including/excluding locked objects. There is a toggle for hidden objects, so why on earth didn't the developers also give us a toggle for locked objects? [rhetorical question]

 

 

[Paul De Bie]

Hi, that's bad news, if you guys also confirm this, then I am really stuck and I hardly know how to continue this work. 

What now? Is this forum followed by Affinity developers or Staff? Do I have to send a bug report or a request? 

A quick and dirty solution for them would be to rename the button "Edit All Layers" to "Edit All Artboards".  But I think that the initial meaning "Edit All layers" is what we ALL need. I have never used an "artboard" nor needed one. If I could convert my layers to artboards, it would be a solution too, but I can't. 

Also, the fact that locking/unlocking a layer does not protect the individual objects on that layer, does really seems a bug to me. Because locking all layers except for the one on which I need to mass select/transform objects,  would have been a workaround. 

Paul

 

 

 

[carl123]

On 10/4/2023 at 5:56 PM, Paul De Bie said:

I tried hiding all layer except for the one on which I need to work. Same result...

If I hide the Layer layers I don't want to change

I can use...

Select > Select Same > Stroke Weight > Equal

and only the layers on that (still visible) Layer are selected

 

By "Layer" I mean the special container Layer rather than layers in general

[Paul De Bie]

Hi Carl,

 

... that would be a workaround but what is the special container "Layer"? 

Just read the docs here https://affinityspotlight.com/article/understanding-groups-and-layers-in-affinity/

There is no mention of a "special" Layer. But they also talk about the Edit All Layers !

"EDIT ALL LAYERS

When disabled, this option, located at the bottom of the Layers Panel in any Affinity desktop app, restricts the selection of objects on the page to just the currently selected layer. This saves you from having to lock and unlock other layers just to work on one specific target layer."

So, this is a little different from the Inline Help that talks about "Artboards". Here they do say "layers" and so, I do consider the functionality as broken. And there workaround locking/unlocking doesn't work either. 

And I just tried your suggestion, with visibility on/off. Does not work either. So would you care to explain what that special container is, and how to create it? 

[carl123]

2 minutes ago, Paul De Bie said:

.. that would be a workaround but what is the special container "Layer"? 

In your first screenshot you have 11 of them showing

Denoted by the blue icon to the left of the Layer which looks like 5 horizontal lines

This one...

 

[Pšenda]

2 hours ago, Paul De Bie said:

A quick and dirty solution for them would be to rename the button "Edit All Layers" to "Edit All Artboards".

It should be noted that the original purpose of the "Edit All Layers" button was completely different.

https://affinity.help/designer2/en-US.lproj/pages/Panels/layersPanel.html

Until the button began to affect the Select function as well, and with the Layers vs Artboards change, it's quite a mess. Add to that the confusion of layer vs Layer, and the chaos is taken care of 🙂

[Pšenda]

2 hours ago, Paul De Bie said:

Also, the fact that locking/unlocking a layer does not protect the individual objects on that layer, does really seems a bug to me. Because locking all layers except for the one on which I need to mass select/transform objects,  would have been a workaround. 

Unfortunately, locking only serves as protection against object selection via canvas, not as protection against change and deletion, see https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/53810-locking-layer-contents/. So in this "locking" concept, which doesn't actually lock anything, there's no reason not to allow these objects to be selected using the Select command.

 

[Pšenda]

2 hours ago, Paul De Bie said:

If I could convert my layers to artboards, it would be a solution too, but I can't. 

If you can't convert the group to Artboard (why not?), then I would try selecting group Plan2011, Ctrl+C, New from clipboard, Select + color change, selecting group Plan2011, Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V in main document (in same position, check via Transform panel), and delete original group Plan2011.

[Pšenda]

On 10/7/2023 at 4:11 PM, walt.farrell said:

I agree that it would be good if Edit All Layers applied to Layers (not just Artboards), as its name implies it should

The Select function should follow what is selected in the Layers panel. If one layer/group/Artboard is selected, the search will be performed only in this layer/group/artboard. If multiple/all layers/groups/artboards are selected, the search will be performed in all layers/groups/artboards. No need to toggle it with a mysterious switch with a confusing label.

[walt.farrell]

4 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

No need to toggle it with a mysterious switch with a confusing label

But for the Select Same functions, your real selected item is the object, not the Layer or Artboard is part of. So there's still run for confusion if you describe it as 

6 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

If one layer/group/Artboard is selected

 

[Paul De Bie]

1 hour ago, carl123 said:

In your first screenshot you have 11 of them showing

Denoted by the blue icon to the left of the Layer which looks like 5 horizontal lines

This one...

 

Hi, OK, so your solution should work. But it doesn't. I toggled visibility off for all layers except the one. Then Select same, Stroke weight etc...  then changed stroke. Then toggled visibility on again for all layers. The stroke was changed in those layers too. Tried it with "Edit all layers" off also. Does not work. So how did you do that ? 

[Paul De Bie]

37 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

If you can't convert the group to Artboard (why not?), then I would try selecting group Plan2011, Ctrl+C, New from clipboard, Select + color change, selecting group Plan2011, Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V in main document (in same position, check via Transform panel), and delete original group Plan2011.

Hi, I had already thought of that as a solution (isolating the layer in a new file, make the changes and copy it back. But I abandoned the idea... The example I gave was just a small part of a much bigger drawing with hundreds of layers. It would really become a nightmare to work that way. 
 

[Paul De Bie]

51 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

Unfortunately, locking only serves as protection against object selection via canvas, not as protection against change and deletion, see https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/53810-locking-layer-contents/. So in this "locking" concept, which doesn't actually lock anything, there's no reason not to allow these objects to be selected using the Select command.

 

So you do agree that locking in Affinity is not working as it should? The docs say it protects again unintentional "moving or transformation". 

For me it is pretty useless as it is. I am very disappointed in Designer. I upgraded from 1 to 2 hoping that all of those non-working things would have been addressed. But no way...   I see that your topig dated from 2018. So 5 years later, it still doesn't work. 

[Paul De Bie]

19 minutes ago, Paul De Bie said:

Hi, OK, so your solution should work. But it doesn't. I toggled visibility off for all layers except the one. Then Select same, Stroke weight etc...  then changed stroke. Then toggled visibility on again for all layers. The stroke was changed in those layers too. Tried it with "Edit all layers" off also. Does not work. So how did you do that ? 

HI Carl,

Victory! You were right. It does work when toggling visibility. I missed that option "Select hidden objects" at the bottom of the Select same Menu!
This will definitely make things easier for me. 

Thanks

Paul

[Pšenda]

6 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

But for the Select Same functions, your real selected item is the object, not the Layer or Artboard is part of. So there's still run for confusion if you describe it as

I didn't describe it clearly. My point was that if the scope of the search is only two-state, and it doesn't matter if it is the whole document vs the current Artboard or Layer or layer, then it can cause problems for some users and the different complexity of the layers hierarchy. Therefore, after determining the source object and choosing the Select command, I would enter the search range in the second step - that is, I would select the object by which I want to make a selection, then determine the type of search, and then specify the search range (I would select the layers or groups or artboards in which the Select command should be perform).

[walt.farrell]

15 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

that is, I would select the object by which I want to make a selection, then determine the type of search, and then specify the search range (I would select the layers or groups or artboards in which the Select command should be perform).

For me, that feels overly complicated.

[Return]

To me all options are convoluted.
If the affinities had proper layers locking/visibility implemented it could be so simple.
Any object that is not visible or locked can't get selected and can't be changed.


 

[Pšenda]

1 hour ago, Return said:

is not visible or locked can get selected and can be changed.

... is visible and not locked can get selected and can be changed.

[Pšenda]

10 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

For me, that feels overly complicated.

Yes, but the need to set the invisibility of individual layers and groups to which the search should not apply (and making them visible again so that the work can be continued) does not look practical and very simple.

[Return]

11 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

... is visible and not locked can get selected and can be changed.

Ah read it over and saw it was backwards, edited my post.

[carl123]

8 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

Yes, but the need to set the invisibility of individual layers and groups to which the search should not apply (and making them visible again so that the work can be continued) does not look practical and very simple.

Select the container Layer you want to work with, then do Layer > Hide Others

Do your "Select Same" commands, then when done do Layer > Show Others to restore all the previously hidden layers