"New Layer" Positioning

[Ash Eldritch]

Hi, the recently added feature, within Designer, to create a new layer, with selected items, has finally got me asking the question that I've long contemplated... Is there any way to control where a new layer is created within the Layers Panel?

I was excited at the new feature till I found, like "add Layer", the new layer of collected items will relocate outside of any layer you're working in. This can be an absolute nightmare trying to position it back where it should be,

 

So basically is the any way I can make "add layer" or "new layer" appear directly above a currently selected curve or object? 

 

regards, Ash.

[Ron P.]

Are you wanting the selected curve or object to be in the new Layer? If so with the object/curve selected, Alt + click the Add Layer icon in the Layers Panel. A new Layer will be created with the selected curve(s), object(s) inside it.

https://affinity.help/designer2/en-US.lproj/pages/Layers/manageLayers.html

[Ash Eldritch]

Hi, Ron, thanks but no. I'm wanting to control where the new layer is positioned within the layers panel.

[Ron P.]

1 hour ago, Ash Eldritch said:

So basically is the any way I can make "add layer" or "new layer" appear directly above a currently selected curve or object? 

Using the Alt-click Add Layer, with the currently selected curve or object, will place that new Layer just above or at the position in the Layer stack of the selected curve/object. Absent that, the new Layer is added to the top.

[Ash Eldritch]

Thank you, Ron. That does indeed work for add layer. Appreciated.  But I'm unable to get it to work for the recently introduced "new layer" feature.

[Ash Eldritch]

I take that back. I am indeed able to do it when I follow instructions properly. lol Very much appreciated. Thank you for your help.

[Ron P.]

Your Welcome

 

[R C-R]

8 hours ago, Ron P. said:

Using the Alt-click Add Layer, with the currently selected curve or object, will place that new Layer just above or at the position in the Layer stack of the selected curve/object. Absent that, the new Layer is added to the top.

Hmmm. For the Layer > Add Layer menu item on my Mac an Option-click (same Alt-click for Windows?) does not seem to place the new Layer just above any selected object(s). That always places an empty Layer at the top of the layer stack.

For the Add Layer button in the Layers panel, an Option-click creates a new Layer with the selected objects in it, like in the screen recording

 What am I doing wrong when I try this with the  Layer > Add Layer menu item?

[lepr]

31 minutes ago, R C-R said:

 What am I doing wrong when I try this with the  Layer > Add Layer menu item?

I have Layer > New Layer on my Mac with UK English. opt/alt key has no effect on that.

There is also New Layer in the context menu of any item in Layers panel. It is affected by opt/alt in the same way as the button at bottom of Layers panel.

 

[R C-R]

54 minutes ago, lepr said:

I have Layer > New Layer on my Mac with UK English. opt/alt key has no effect on that.

There is also New Layer in the context menu of any item in Layers panel. It is affected by opt/alt in the same way as the button at bottom of Layers panel.

I am seeing the same behavior, which makes me think the Layer > New Layer menu item does not take into account if Alt/Option is pressed or not. But I don't know if this is a bug or by design.

[walt.farrell]

10 minutes ago, R C-R said:

I am seeing the same behavior, which makes me think the Layer > New Layer menu item does not take into account if Alt/Option is pressed or not. But I don't know if this is a bug or by design.

According to https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/whats-new/ the new function affects the icon in the Layers panel, and the right-click context menu only.

Quote

In the Layers Panel, if you Alt-click ‘Add new layer’ (⌥-click on macOS/iPad) when you have a selection, all items in that selection are moved to the new layer created. In other words, this behaves like grouping, but rather than creating a group, it puts your selection into a new layer.

Additionally, for desktop versions, you will find a new option in the right-click menu for ‘Move Selection to New Layer’ which achieves the same thing. This makes it far easier to organize your work into layers, without having to create an empty layer first and drag the items you want into it.

 

[R C-R]

12 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

According to https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/whats-new/ the new function affects the icon in the Layers panel, and the right-click context menu only.

I know what it says, but since there is no mention of it working or not working with the Layer > New Layer menu item, I still wonder if this is just an oversight or bug, or an odd design choice.

[walt.farrell]

5 minutes ago, R C-R said:

or an odd design choice.

Are there any other functions where a modifier key has an effect on a Menu action?

[R C-R]

18 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Are there any other functions where a modifier key has an effect on a Menu action?

Not sure about that in Affinity but on Macs in apps Like Finder or Safari there are so it is definitely doable.

[walt.farrell]

10 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Not sure about that in Affinity but on Macs in apps Like Finder or Safari there are so it is definitely doable.

For this discussion, Affinity is what's important. Sorry to be unclear.

[R C-R]

19 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

For this discussion, Affinity is what's important. Sorry to be unclear.

I guess I was not clear either. What I mean is there does not seem to be any technical reason why this can't be implemented in the Affinity apps, or at least the Mac versions. So I still wonder if this was just an omission or what.

EDIT: I just did a quick check & there are at least two places in V2 where alt/option changes a menu item. One is in the File menu: with Option held down New... changes to New From Last Preset...

The other is in the Mac Affinity Designer 2 or other V2 app menu Quit changes to Quit and Keep Windows. I'm not really sure what that is for, though.

For both, the keyboard shortcuts displayed in the menu dynamically changes to include ⌥ (the Mac symbol for the Alt/Option key), so it seems not only is it technically possible to make this work with Layer > New Layer, it could work dynamically like the others.

[Old Bruce]

29 minutes ago, R C-R said:

V2 app menu Quit changes to Quit and Keep Windows.

I see Quit and Close All Windows with the Option key.

[R C-R]

9 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

I see Quit and Close All Windows with the Option key.

Odd. For me in V2.2 it is definitely Quit and Keep Windows. Maybe it is different because I'm still using Catalina?

BTW, I see the same thing in Safari; Keep, not Close All.

[lepr]

7 hours ago, Old Bruce said:

I see Quit and Close All Windows with the Option key.

Yes, Quit and Close All Windows for me in Affinity 2.2 on macOS 12.7 with UK English. See addition at bottom of this message.

Also, four of the commands in the Geometry submenu change from destructive to non-destructive when the opt/alt key is depressed:

• Add becomes Add (Compound)
• Subtract becomes Subtract (Compound)
• Intersect becomes Intersect (Compound)
• Xor becomes Xor (Compound)

Divide in the Geometry submenu should be affected by opt/alt key, to match the dual functionality (discarding versus keeping open paths of the result) of the toolbar button, but that has been neglected like the New Layer command in the Layer menu.

 

Addition: found an explanation for why some users may see Quit and Keep Windows: 

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by lepr
added info

[lepr]

7 hours ago, R C-R said:

Odd. For me in V2.2 it is definitely Quit and Keep Windows. Maybe it is different because I'm still using Catalina?

BTW, I see the same thing in Safari; Keep, not Close All.

 

[Dan C]

15 hours ago, R C-R said:

I am seeing the same behavior, which makes me think the Layer > New Layer menu item does not take into account if Alt/Option is pressed or not. But I don't know if this is a bug or by design.

This is by design, as on Windows you cannot combine the ALT key and a menu item - as pressing the ALT key would close the active menu - therefore we decided not to implement this from Layer > New Layer on either platform.

[lepr]

5 minutes ago, Dan C said:

This is by design, as on Windows you cannot combine the ALT key and a menu item - as pressing the ALT key would close the active menu - therefore we decided not to implement this from Layer > New Layer on either platform.

But Windows users would not be negatively affected by giving the functionality to Mac users, and there are existing examples of the functionality in Affinity on Mac (as stated in previous posts in this thread) so I find Serif's decision bizarre.

[Return]

22 minutes ago, Dan C said:

This is by design, as on Windows you cannot combine the ALT key and a menu item - as pressing the ALT key would close the active menu - therefore we decided not to implement this from Layer > New Layer on either platform.

Eh, Serif could have chosen ctrl+alt, like it does with creating compounds through Menu>Layer>Geometry>options.
So why is it there a double modifier? and reject it for another function?
Indeed an inconsistent decision.

[lepr]

5 minutes ago, Return said:

Eh, Serif could have chosen ctrl+alt, like it does with creating compounds through Menu>Layer>Geometry>options.

I didn't realise that solution had been provided for Affinity on Windows. That makes Serif's decision for New Layer on Mac even weirder than I thought it was.

[Dan C]

This was originally raised in the beta thread for the new feature (by Return), and logged with our team as an improvement - 

Unfortunately I can't comment on the reasoning behind our developers decisions, I can only provide the information I am given.