Rules Above or Below Text

[Mulder]

I have yet to see any step-by-step instructions for how to create rules (lines) above or below text that stay with the text as it moves on the page. I'm sure it can be done and I've seen some forum topics on this before for v1.10.x, but I've never seen it actually explained in any responses to those posts.

Surely, there must be someone who can explain this, or maybe it's actually documented clearly somewhere.

[Oufti]

In the help, look how you can assign paragraph Decorations in Paragraph panel or via a Paragraph text style. 

https://affinity.help/publisher2/en-US.lproj/pages/Text/decorations.html

In recent threads, you could have a look to these ones:

 

 

[Mulder]

17 minutes ago, Oufti said:

In the help, look how you can assign paragraph Decorations in Paragraph panel or via a Paragraph text style. 

https://affinity.help/publisher2/en-US.lproj/pages/Text/decorations.html

Well, that Help link is of no help whatsoever. It only references the Decorations area of the Paragraph panel; nowhere does it tell you how to add a line above or below any text. In fact, when I did it, the only thing it accomplished was to reduce the size of my selected text to 12 pt, and put a line under that. Then I had to go back and reset the font and size of the text to what it was before adding that line.

That's too much work, and definitely not intuitive. With InDesign and QuarkXPress, it's easy once you remember where the panel is in those programs.

Affinity needs to find a better, easier, intuitive way to do this.

[thomaso]

44 minutes ago, Mulder said:

Well, that Help link is of no help whatsoever. It only references the Decorations area of the Paragraph panel; nowhere does it tell you how to add a line above or below any text.

Well, as every Help article offers links at its end with hints of possible interest, so does this page: "Paragraph panel".

Users interested in those hyperlinks will gain access to additional content … which in this case appears to contain the information you are missing:

[Mulder]

23 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Well, as every Help article offers links at its end with hints of possible interest, so does this page: "Paragraph panel".

Users interested in those hyperlinks will gain access to additional content … which in this case appears to contain the information you are missing:

I went to that section originally, and it doesn't say anything about putting a line above or below any selected text changing it to a completely different size than what it should be.

[thomaso]

1 minute ago, Mulder said:

it doesn't say anything about putting a line above or below any selected text changing it to a completely different size

Adding, styling or deactivating a paragraph decoration should not modify the font size. – Can you show an example that demonstrates your workflow and decoration settings?

[Mulder]

1 minute ago, thomaso said:

Adding, styling or deactivating a paragraph decoration should not modify the font size. – Can you show an example that demonstrates your workflow and decoration settings?

But it did, and it does. I can't show it to you because I only tested it earlier this evening and I didn't save that test document. It's too late in the evening now to do it again, and it would only be a screen shot at best; no video.

[thomaso]

2 minutes ago, Mulder said:

It's too late in the evening now to do it again, and it would only be a screen shot at best

Then maybe tomorrow? A screenshot only wouldn't work to make the workflow obvious since it doesn't make clear what font size was set before and after the decoration.

Does it always change to 12 pt, regardless of the initial size or decoration settings?
And what happens if you deactivate the decoration: Does the font size change again?

Did you possibly click this style menu?

[Mulder]

14 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Then maybe tomorrow? A screenshot only wouldn't work to make the workflow obvious since it doesn't make clear what font size was set before and after the decoration.

Does it always change to 12 pt, regardless of the initial size or decoration settings?
And what happens if you deactivate the decoration: Does the font size change again?

Did you possibly click this style menu?

Yes, I did; and that's where it allows me to select a line above or below the text. As soon as I scroll over either of them, the line appears, but the text was changed from 64 pt to 12 pt, and a different weight of the typeface.

[carl123]

1 hour ago, Mulder said:

As soon as I scroll over either of them, the line appears, but the text was changed from 64 pt to 12 pt, and a different weight of the typeface.

That's because the "Line Above" and "Line Below" text styles are based on other text styles that also change other things like the Font and Font Size

 

[thomaso]

2 hours ago, Mulder said:

Yes, I did; and that's where it allows me to select a line above or below the text. As soon as I scroll over either of them, the line appears, but the text was changed from 64 pt to 12 pt, and a different weight of the typeface.

Arial? – I sounds you have reset the style to "[No Style]" by clicking this menu. This "[No Style]" by default is defined as Arial regular 12 pt.

This menu and the Decorations are two different, rather independent sections of the Paragraph panel, they may appear like in my screenshot above by coincidence and then it may occur as if the style menu is a direct part of the Decorations. So I assume your font size changed when you hit this menu, not when you set a decoration. – Here is another view on this panel, it makes the separate function of the style menu more clear:

27 minutes ago, carl123 said:

That's because the "Line Above" and "Line Below" text styles are based on other text styles that also change other things like the Font and Font Size

No. You can add a decoration to an existing style in this panel, too. Setting a decoration does modify a style but it does not choose a different style from the menu, unless you use this menu. This menu and decorations are independent of each other. If you set decorations while another than [No Style] is selected than the current style name just gets a + symbol added as soon a decoration setting gets set. Like so:

[carl123]

I believe the OP is referring to the "Line Above" and "Line Below" text styles shown below, which will change the font and font size.

And which explains the OP's initial query/issue

I am aware that using Decorations will not change anything else other than what is in the Decorations section

 

 

[thomaso]

3 hours ago, carl123 said:

I believe the OP is referring to the "Line Above" and "Line Below" text styles shown below, which will change the font and font size.

And which explains the OP's initial query/issue

Ah, yes, that might be the case. (and it would explain the used term "scroll" in "As soon as I scroll over either of them the line appears, but the text was changed".)

– But this would mean the OP did not follow the guide in the Help to create & define a line above/below via the "Decorations" section in the Paragraph panel, and also would mean they "simply" selected/assigned a different text style … while the OP's query/issue would not really be related to paragraph decorations, their setup or any missing info in the Help about defining Decorations but would rather concern how to assign saved Text Styles , where it says for instance:

Nevertheless, indeed the Help for the Paragraph panel does not even mention this/its particular style menu and its direct connection to the Text Styles panel.

[Oufti]

9 hours ago, Mulder said:

With InDesign and QuarkXPress, it's easy once you remember where the panel is in those programs.

In Affinity Publisher, it is in the Decorations section of the Paragraph panel.

The existence of default text styles named Line Above or Line Below is merely there to give you examples of how you can use text styles for advanced formatting. — I admit it can be confusing if you overlooked what a text style is, and also that you can choose a text style via the top most popup menu in the Paragraph panel. 

[Mulder]

9 hours ago, carl123 said:

That's because the "Line Above" and "Line Below" text styles are based on other text styles that also change other things like the Font and Font Size

 

Except there was no other style; it was one line of type, all set in Akzidenz Grotesk Extra Bold, 64 pt. It should not change.

[Old Bruce]

8 minutes ago, Mulder said:

Except there was no other style; it was one line of type, all set in Akzidenz Grotesk Extra Bold, 64 pt. It should not change.

Edit that Paragraph Style and add the Paragraph Decorations. Or just use the Paragraph Panel if it is one instance you want to add the lines to. Do not change the Paragraph's Text Style, just Edit it or Override it for the one instance.

[thomaso]

19 minutes ago, Mulder said:

Except there was no other style; it was one line of type, all set in Akzidenz Grotesk Extra Bold, 64 pt. It should not change.

There was another style: If you create a text from scratch it uses the default paragraph + character styles which both are named "[No style]".

As soon you switch the style (e.g. in the styles menu of the paragraph panel) you switch to all parameters that are set for this new assigned style (and/or of the style it is based on). Also InDesign and QXP use such default text styles.

If you want to add a line above/below you simply set the Decoration parameters in the paragraph panel – without touching/changing the currently assigned style in the styles menu.

In case your text has a certain, custom saved style assigned then you can add the line via the Text Style Editor window which you access via double-click on the styles name in the Text Styles panel. Then you go to the Decorations section + define the line there.

[Mulder]

7 minutes ago, thomaso said:

There was another style: If you create a text from scratch it uses the default paragraph + character styles which both are named "[No style]".

As soon you switch the style (e.g. in the styles menu of the paragraph panel) you switch to all parameters that are set for this new assigned style (and/or of the style it is based on). Also InDesign and QXP use such default text styles.

If you want to add a line above/below you simply set the Decoration parameters in the paragraph panel – without touching/changing the currently assigned style in the styles menu.

In case your text has a certain, custom saved style assigned then you can add the line via the Text Style Editor window which you access via double-click on the styles name in the Text Styles panel. Then you go to the Decorations section + define the line there.

I've just created a new document with a text frame and used the Text Styles panel to edit the No Style to use Akzidenz Grotesk Extra Bold 64 pt. Then I went back to the text frame and typed my line of text. It all came out as 12 pt. Helvetica. I then went back and deleted everything except one letter, checked the No Style -> Body panel again to be sure it had the correct typeface and weight selected, then typed out my text again — and it was still all in 12 pt Helvetica. This is exactly what it says in the Body style: Base + Font: Akzidenz-Grotesk Next; Font weight: Extra-bold; Italic: Off; Font width: Normal; Font size: 64 pt

No other styles are applied, so something seems a tad askew. It should not be this difficult.

[thomaso]

6 minutes ago, Mulder said:

I've just created a new document with a text frame and used the Text Styles panel to edit the No Style to use Akzidenz Grotesk Extra Bold 64 pt. Then I went back to the text frame and typed my line of text. It all came out as 12 pt. Helvetica. I then went back and deleted everything except one letter, checked the No Style -> Body panel again to be sure it had the correct typeface and weight selected, then typed out my text again — and it was still all in 12 pt Helvetica. This is exactly what it says in the Body style: Base +

It appears you created a text frame that got at any moment in your workflow the style "Base" assigned, not the "[No style]". That is why Base + after your edits gets reported (with a + symbol, like in InDesign).

"used the Text Styles panel to edit the No Style" : You can't edit the "[No style]" directly / this way. As long you don't choose any other style from the Text Styles menu every text frame can have "[No style]" assigned, regardless of the used and displayed definitions. So you may create a mix of quite different text appearances while each of them seems to have "[No style]" assigned.

Also note, Affinity tries to support your workflow efficiency by remembering the last used styles / parameters and using them for future objects, too. So, if you want to create a new, "virgin" object from scratch you need to make sure that indeed the default "[No style]" is used. The easiest is to press the according button in the Toolbar, named "Revert defaults". – And, just in case: You also may custom define this default "[No style]" with parameters of your choice via the menu commands File -> Defaults -> Synchronise from Selection AND File -> Defaults -> Save. In this features Affinity might be more flexible than possibly expected and thus may feel uncomfortable complex.

Until you got familiar with handling Text Styles in Affinity I recommend to work with saved styles only and create them first (i.e. as instances in the Text Style panel), either by formatting a text as wanted + clicking "add style" in the Text Style panel or directly by "add style" and edit it as wanted in its Editor window. In both workflows be aware of the "Based on:" property in the style definition since this may make it more complex by dependencies with a parent style and thus may confuse additionally. Same for the "Next style" option. (btw., also ID uses 'Based on' / 'Next style' properties)