Weird MacOS mouse glitch

[bluepinkpanther]

Hi there!

I've been using Affinity Designer for years now without any major issues, but I have switched to MacOS a couple of months ago and I've got a very annoying issue that I cannot resolve in any way. I'm using V2 version of the designer. I can't seem to replicate it on demand, it seems to happen randomly, but many times a day when I'm dragging objects around they often jump more than my cursor moves. They basically duplicate the same distance and direction, doubling it, which as you can probably imagine is terribly annoying. I tried everything to fix it: I reinstalled Affinity Designer, I reinstalled MacOS, I tried 4 different mice - bluetooth and 2.4gh. I even downloaded V1 trial version of the designer and it happens there too. It DOESN'T happen in any other app, it doesn't happen in MacOS itself, Adobe Illustrator, Photoshop or any games. I can't find anyone who had a similar issue. Do you have any suggestions on how to fix it? I'm attaching a short video which shows how the selected object moves much further than my cursor does.

Edited July 30, 2023 by bluepinkpanther

[MikeTO]

Hi @bluepinkpanther and welcome to the forums. I don't know the answer but Serif will likely want to know which mouse you're using and which exact version of macOS.

Also, do you have a tablet plugged in and by any chance is a pencil resting on its surface? Sometimes that can cause issues.

Good luck. Nice image, too!

[bluepinkpanther]

Just now, MikeTO said:

Hi @bluepinkpanther and welcome to the forums. I don't know the answer but Serif will likely want to know which mouse you're using and which exact version of macOS.

Also, do you have a tablet plugged in and by any chance is a pencil resting on its surface? Sometimes that can cause issues.

Good luck. Nice image, too!

Hi there!

The mouse that I use daily is Logitech g305. I also tried Xlite Wireless V2, Logitech Triathlon and Steelseries Rival 3 Wireless. It happens on all of them.

MacOS version is Ventura 13.5.

I do not have any tablet plugged in. I don't really have anything else plugged in other than my Magic Keyboard and a mouse.

[thomaso]

Can you try a wired mouse instead wireless to test if that might be the culprit? There are reports about unexpected mouse moves, for instance these about bluetooth or interference issues:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254788890

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/cursor-jumping-around-on-external-display-since-m1.2358802/

Also possibly booting in Safe Mode or resetting Bluetooth, SMC or Parameter RAM might help.
This article is from 2019, so you might check at Apple.com in case the recipes require different steps in Ventura or your current mac hardware.
https://appletoolbox.com/mouse-or-trackpad-cursor-moves-randomly-in-mac-os-x-10-6-x-snow-leopard/

[v_kyr]

If really only the Affinity app is affected here, I would check instead the app tools prefs settings, if something set there might give odd behaviors there.

[bluepinkpanther]

6 hours ago, v_kyr said:

If really only the Affinity app is affected here, I would check instead the app tools prefs settings, if something set there might give odd behaviors there.

Yes, it really only happens in Affinity Designer. This issue makes me want to go back to Illustrator, even though I hate it

I'm not really sure what to look in the settings, especially since I mentioned that I reinstalled the Designer multiple times and all settings got reset to defaults.

6 hours ago, Red Sands said:

Hi @bluepinkpanther

I am now working with a Logitech G305 on a Mac M1 also running Ventura, which does not exhibit this behaviour. I also have a bluetooth mouse for my iPad Pro which also works just fine with this Mac.

What I do know is that Affinity had some issues with high-dpi mice like the G305 and other high-dpi devices that resulted in stuttering when moving simple objects. It doesn't happen as much in Designer anymore, but I think I see a bit of it in Publisher, which I don't use anymore almost. It's purely an Affinity issue - I've never had problems in my many other programs.

Are your other devices high-dpi as well?

Well, that's not a good news, but it makes sense since this behaviour happens in both V1 and V2 versions of the Designer. I am running all my mice in high-dpi, around 5000, I guess I'll try to lower it as much as I can to still be able to work and see if it helps.

 

7 hours ago, thomaso said:

Can you try a wired mouse instead wireless to test if that might be the culprit? There are reports about unexpected mouse moves, for instance these about bluetooth or interference issues:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254788890

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/cursor-jumping-around-on-external-display-since-m1.2358802/

Also possibly booting in Safe Mode or resetting Bluetooth, SMC or Parameter RAM might help.
This article is from 2019, so you might check at Apple.com in case the recipes require different steps in Ventura or your current mac hardware.
https://appletoolbox.com/mouse-or-trackpad-cursor-moves-randomly-in-mac-os-x-10-6-x-snow-leopard/

I do not have any wired mice, but I work on my computer all day and I have never noticed such issues outside of Affinity Designer. I tried Safe Mode and also completely reinstalling MacOS, as mentioned in my first post.

[bluepinkpanther]

On 7/31/2023 at 1:56 AM, Red Sands said:

Hi @bluepinkpanther

I am now working with a Logitech G305 on a Mac M1 also running Ventura, which does not exhibit this behaviour. I also have a bluetooth mouse for my iPad Pro which also works just fine with this Mac.

What I do know is that Affinity had some issues with high-dpi mice like the G305 and other high-dpi devices that resulted in stuttering when moving simple objects. It doesn't happen as much in Designer anymore, but I think I see a bit of it in Publisher, which I don't use anymore almost. It's purely an Affinity issue - I've never had problems in my many other programs.

Are your other devices high-dpi as well?

I have tried lowering the dpi on my mouse to ridiculously low levels but it did not help. 

 

I'm not really sure what to do, sometimes it jumps so much it makes it unusable...

Would using Apple Magic Mouse help? I don't own one, but I'm desperate.

Edited August 1, 2023 by bluepinkpanther

[v_kyr]

20 minutes ago, bluepinkpanther said:

Would using Apple Magic Mouse help?

Probably, I had similar issues under MacOS in the past with Logitech MX Nano & MX Anywhere mices (those suffered under MacOS from generating sometimes double clicks etc., which could not be switched/turned off via the MacOS settings) and then switched over to using a Magic Mouse 2 instead, which works more as one would expect. - So an Apple mouse should usually work, but it's very flat in contrast and hand wise not very ergonomically here.

On another Mac (a MacBook Pro) I used a 0815 vertical mouse which works fine instead of the Logitech mices.

[bluepinkpanther]

3 minutes ago, Red Sands said:

NO! 😱

There is nothing magic about it. It'll leave you with muscle damage or extreme muscle fatigue in under an hour, is record-breakingly unergonomic and clumsy to use - and at an obscenely premium price. I've never tried such a poor mouse before. It's for Facebook and receptionist use only. See how many are sold used. And can't be sold. Let's just say the magic mouse market is saturated. Everyone are trying to get rid of theirs.

-> More about my experience.

Have you tried the science of plugging in a good old-fashioned wired mouse or a cheap one with a USB receiver? Just to find out if they behave differently.

I've found over time that a mouse with buttons that aren't noisy and don't offer much resistance, and a medium to small size (especially not too tall) suits me best. It's not the DPI, the price, the features or the number of buttons, it's simply that it's natural to work with. I haven't seen a correlation between price, ergonomics and value at all. It's just been a match - or mismatch - from mouse to mouse.

I tried a bluetooth mouse and also one with 2.4 usb wireless receiver. It did not help at all. I got so frustrated today I basically stopped my workday because it got so annoying.

 

4 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

Probably, I had similar issues under MacOS in the past with Logitech MX Nano & MX Anywhere mices and then switched over to using a Magic Mouse 2 instead, which works more as one would expect. - So an Apple mouse should usually work, but it's very flat in contrast and hand wise not very ergonomically here.

On another Mac (a MacBook Pro) I used a 0815 vertical mouse which works fine instead of the Logitech mices.

Would you like to tell me about your experience with using a Magic Mouse with Affinity Designer? I'm afraid the touch surface is going to be annoying or difficult to use.

[v_kyr]

20 minutes ago, bluepinkpanther said:

Would you like to tell me about your experience with using a Magic Mouse with Affinity Designer? I'm afraid the touch surface is going to be annoying or difficult to use.

Well it's usually easy to use and customizable via the OS settings to more personal needs, though it needs some getting to when you use the mice first time. Using that mice very long times a day will let your hand wrist notice it. Thus I use/move it only with the thumb and ring finger, so without any full hand cover force, as it's a damned flat device. On my older MacOS system it sometimes/seldom with the Affinity apps (and only with these) produces an unwanted zoom-effects when clicking fast around. Other than that it works precisely and flawless.

Some of my work collegues do prefer the usage of the external Apple trackpad instead, but I'm more used to a mouse here for moving around cursors & clicking, in order to control a graphics software.

[bluepinkpanther]

Just now, Red Sands said:

https://www.rtings.com/mouse/reviews/apple/magic-mouse-2

Google for more. Save yourself.

I'm aware of the ergonomics of the Magic Mouse, but with this glitch the Designer app is almost unusuable anyway..

[thomaso]

1 hour ago, bluepinkpanther said:

I'm aware of the ergonomics of the Magic Mouse, but with this glitch the Designer app is almost unusuable anyway..

Apple's mouse is not so magic that disturbing cursor jumps would not have been reported, for instance in this older thread on 7 pages (2010 – 2017):
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2445439

Whereas this thread contains an interesting solution with a system preference setting (2021):
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/magic-mouse-2-erratic-behavior.2229777/post-29643030

Why does it have to be wireless at all?

[bluepinkpanther]

7 hours ago, thomaso said:

Apple's mouse is not so magic that disturbing cursor jumps would not have been reported, for instance in this older thread on 7 pages (2010 – 2017):
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2445439

Whereas this thread contains an interesting solution with a system preference setting (2021):
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/magic-mouse-2-erratic-behavior.2229777/post-29643030

Why does it have to be wireless at all?

My issue happens ONLY in affinity designer when dragging/resizing objects. It's purely related to Affinity Designer or to how it interprets cursor movements.

It's 2023, if software can't work with a wireless mouse then it's kind of a joke, right?

[bluepinkpanther]

I just tried two mice, one bluetooth and one with 2.4 wireless adapter. I set both of them to a ridiculously low dpi of 800 but it did have any effect on the issue. Just as additional confirmation, I've been working today for around 4 hours straight in Photoshop using the bluetooth mouse and this issue didn't happen once. It happens only in affinity designer. It would be nice to have someone from Affinity help out because I'm feeling hopeless.

[thomaso]

The thread title says "mouse glitch" while currently it seems to be unclear if it is in fact related to the device hard- or software in particular – or if it is rather referred to the cursor only, regardless of a device.

• Sorry, still guessing only, do you experience the issue with certain kind of situations, for instance object types, tools or tasks? You video shows resizing a rectangle and moving a text frame, both with Move Tool I guess … while there is also zooming (is this part of the issue) …?

• Does the issue happen only with the left mouse key pressed, or also with other mouse actions?
• Does it get influenced by pressed modifier key(s)?
• Does it change if you unplug the (magic) keyboard?
• Does the issue also occur if you move the document's scrollbar element?

• Do you have a second monitor plugged? If yes, does the issue change if you unplug it?
• What computer model do you use? If a macbook with trackpad: does the issue happen when using the trackpad, too?

FWIW, two V1 examples about unexpected moves or object positioning. (I vaguely remember ~2 more reports where objects got suddenly an unwanted offset but unfortunately I don't find them / did not use the right keywords). Especially the one with brush property appears similar to yours.

[v_kyr]

1 hour ago, bluepinkpanther said:

I've been working today for around 4 hours straight in Photoshop using the bluetooth mouse and this issue didn't happen once. It happens only in affinity designer

Well if it really only happens with ADe no matter if V1 or V2, then you have to narrow down the problem further by checking the things thomaso named above. Also check possible third party mouse related software like "Logitech Options" and "Logitech Control Center LCC" etc. together with ADe here.

[bluepinkpanther]

On 8/2/2023 at 7:44 PM, thomaso said:

The thread title says "mouse glitch" while currently it seems to be unclear if it is in fact related to the device hard- or software in particular – or if it is rather referred to the cursor only, regardless of a device.

• Sorry, still guessing only, do you experience the issue with certain kind of situations, for instance object types, tools or tasks? You video shows resizing a rectangle and moving a text frame, both with Move Tool I guess … while there is also zooming (is this part of the issue) …?

• Does the issue happen only with the left mouse key pressed, or also with other mouse actions?
• Does it get influenced by pressed modifier key(s)?
• Does it change if you unplug the (magic) keyboard?
• Does the issue also occur if you move the document's scrollbar element?

• Do you have a second monitor plugged? If yes, does the issue change if you unplug it?
• What computer model do you use? If a macbook with trackpad: does the issue happen when using the trackpad, too?

FWIW, two V1 examples about unexpected moves or object positioning. (I vaguely remember ~2 more reports where objects got suddenly an unwanted offset but unfortunately I don't find them / did not use the right keywords). Especially the one with brush property appears similar to yours.

Here are some answers to your questions:

• do you experience the issue with certain kind of situations?

It happens when moving and resizing shapes, curves, texts but also artboards. It doesn't happen when zooming or scrolling. It doesn't happen when moving layers in the Layers panel. It doesn't happen when moving color sliders.

Possibly, one of the most important discoveries which could help someone from Affinity is that the original moving of an object and the doubled "jump" count as two different actions in regards to the Undo tool. If I press Command+Z, it will undo the jump, and then when I press Command+Z again it will undo the intended move/resize.

It doesn't seem to happen with a node tool when moving nodes, but it's hard to say definitely as I cannot seem to force this glitch to happen on demand. Sometimes it happens straight for a couple of seconds, sometimes it doesn't for dozens of minutes.
I'm also 90% sure it doesn't happen when panning around while pressing the middle mouse button.

One of the weirdest things is that it always jumps in the direction that the object is being moved/resized, and when it happens it always doubles the intended distance. If I move an object just a bit, it jumps just a bit, when I move it a lot, it will double that and jump even outside the visible area, while the cursor stays precisely when I moved it. I thought it could be related to snapping, but I have had it disabled for the last couple of days and it did not help.

• Does the issue happen only with the left mouse key pressed, or also with other mouse actions?
It's hard to say precisely, but it doesn't happen with scrolling, I'm not sure if there is any scenario where it could happen when using right mouse key.

• Does it get influenced by pressed modifier key(s)?
It happens when I hold shift when trying move items for example, but it's not restricted to it. It can happen when the only thing I'm pressing down is the left mouse key.

• Does it change if you unplug the (magic) keyboard?
No, it didn't change anything when the Magic Keyboard was disconnected and turned off.

 

BTW it DOES NOT happen in Affinity Photo v2.
 

[bluepinkpanther]

How to get affinity's attention with this?

[MEB]

Hi @bluepinkpanther,
Welcome to Affinity Forums
Are you running any third party software that may be interfering with the mouse?
Have you tried to use the app under a new user account? Does it behave the same way there?

[bluepinkpanther]

11 hours ago, MEB said:

Hi @bluepinkpanther,
Welcome to Affinity Forums
Are you running any third party software that may be interfering with the mouse?
Have you tried to use the app under a new user account? Does it behave the same way there?

Hi there,

I am not running any mouse-related software. I installed Logitech mouse software when I was testing it with different mice, but I have uninstalled it since.

Do you mean a new user account in macOS? I haven't tried that, but I did completely reinstall macOS, so I guess that should've helped in the same way.

[R C-R]

6 hours ago, bluepinkpanther said:

Do you mean a new user account in macOS? I haven't tried that, but I did completely reinstall macOS, so I guess that should've helped in the same way.

No, just reinstalling the OS will not do the same things as trying with a newly created user account. This is because unless you do a so-called "clean" install, all your user account-related stuff (including most of what is in your Home folder) won't be touched.

[bluepinkpanther]

2 hours ago, R C-R said:

No, just reinstalling the OS will not do the same things as trying with a newly created user account. This is because unless you do a so-called "clean" install, all your user account-related stuff (including most of what is in your Home folder) won't be touched.

I have done a clean install in which my drive got completely erase, including my user data.

[bluepinkpanther]

I have also just confirmed that it DOES indeed happen with a trackpad too, not just mice.

[R C-R]

6 hours ago, bluepinkpanther said:

I have done a clean install in which my drive got completely erase, including my user data.

Did you restore anything related to your original user account afterwards? If so, you might have reintroduced whatever was causing the issue into the newly installed system.

Also, how did you reinstall Affinity & your other apps?

[bluepinkpanther]

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

Did you restore anything related to your original user account afterwards? If so, you might have reintroduced whatever was causing the issue into the newly installed system.

Also, how did you reinstall Affinity & your other apps?

No, I didn’t restore anything. I have erased my entire drive, did a clean install of MacOS Ventura. Then I downloaded v2 affinity designer installer from my affinity account, installed it and logged in using my login credentials. It was the first thing I did after reinstalling macOS.