Lines extend to bleed when printing booklets

[Pekka Siponen]

1. What Application are you using? [Designer/Photo/Publisher]

publisher

1. Are you using the latest release version?
   (here's how to check)

yes

1. Can you reproduce it?
   (if you cannot then we may struggle to also, making it even harder to fix)

yes

1. Does it happen for a new document? If not can you upload a document that shows the problem?

yes

1. If you cannot provide a sample document then please give an accurate description of the problem for example it should include most of the following:

•    What is your operating system and version (Windows 11, OSX Ventura, iOS 16 etc)? — Windows 10
•    Is hardware acceleration (in Preferences > Performance) ON or OFF ? (and have you tried the other setting?) — unknown
•    What happened for you (and what you expected to happen) — Line extends to bleed area in the document, and it should be cut at page edge when printing (as happens with the upper blue rectangle). Now when printing the line extends to the front page. 
•    Provide a recipe for creating the problem (step-by-step what you did). — Create a line on the last page and extend it to bleed. Print, and it shows on the front page.
•    Screenshots (very handy) or a screen capture/video. — attached original file and printed pdf
•    Any unusual hardware (like tablets or external monitors or drives that may affect things) or relevant other applications like font managers or display managers. — no
•    Did this same thing used to work and if so have you changed anything recently? (software or hardware) — unknown

käsiohjelma2023.afpub test.pdf

[Hangman]

Hi @Pekka Siponen,

2 hours ago, Pekka Siponen said:

Line extends to bleed area in the document, and it should be cut at page edge when printing (as happens with the upper blue rectangle). Now when printing the line extends to the front page. 

The blue upper rectangle also runs over onto the front page for the same reason. You possibly don't notice it because:

1. It is the same colour as the blue rectangle on the front page
2. It sits beneath the blue rectangle on the front page

Because these are facing pages when printed you would need to remove the bleed from the right-hand edge of the back page, certainly, for the line, it's fine for the blue rectangle as it blends into the one on the front page, though if this is being professionally printed as a litho job, that is likely something that would or should happen at the imposition stage automatically.

If printing yourself then simply shorten the line by the 3mm bleed so it ends at the trim box rather than the bleed box on the right edge of the back page.

[Pekka Siponen]

Indeed. I did not notice it. Any idea why the blue rectangle on the front page doesn’t appear in the back page? This will probably go to a professional printing house when finished, so I would like it to be right.

Thanks for your reply!

 

[Hangman]

Looking at the pdf it appears that the front cover has been exported without bleed, as in there is no bleed included on the right and upper edges of the blue rectangle either. How was the pdf itself assembled?

If I export the front and back covers as a spread with bleed you can see that the blue rectangle on the front cover does overlap the back cover in the same way the line on the back cover overlaps the front cover...

 

[Pekka Siponen]

Ok! This is new info! I could not get the rectangle to go to the back page. =D I have previously only used InDesign and the workflow is different here I guess (or a bug). So for the time being I’ll make no bleeds on the front/back edge on my home printer.

For the PDF I used the File —> Print —> ”Printer: Microsoft Print to PDF” & ”Model: Booklet” (etc.)

Also my Epson printer gives the same result as the Microsoft Print to PDF (front to back no bleed).

I appreciate your input.

Pekka

[Hangman]

9 hours ago, Pekka Siponen said:

Ok! This is new info! I could not get the rectangle to go to the back page. =D I have previously only used InDesign and the workflow is different here I guess (or a bug). So for the time being I’ll make no bleeds on the front/back edge on my home printer.

For the PDF I used the File —> Print —> ”Printer: Microsoft Print to PDF” & ”Model: Booklet” (etc.)

Interesting, I see the same thing when printing as a Booklet, i.e., even though the front cover overlaps/is in front of the back cover, the bleed isn't printed on the left edge of the front cover but it is printed on the right edge of the back cover.

I'm unsure at this stage whether this is expected behaviour for Booklet Printing or a bug...

[Ezbaze]

I have managed to export the File using the Default PDF for Print Export with a minor change of ticking the Include Bleed at the bottom, I didn't have a font so some of the text isn't exported properly:

It includes the bleed ( And the colour is there unlike in the test.pdf )

 

Would you be able to share how you are exporting it? ( As I had a lot of issues with bleed exports, that just don't want to work no matter what )

[Hangman]

Hi @Ezbaze,

The issue isn't so much to do with including the bleed, as in the bleed is included, it's to do with why, when exporting the Publisher file as a Booklet the bleed isn't included on the left-hand side of the front cover but is included on the right-hand side of the back cover...

[Ezbaze]

1 hour ago, Hangman said:

Hi @Ezbaze,

The issue isn't so much to do with including the bleed, as in the bleed is included, it's to do with why, when exporting the Publisher file as a Booklet the bleed isn't included on the left-hand side of the front cover but is included on the right-hand side of the back cover...

Yes I see, that is weird, the reason I thought it was mentioning the whole thing was that the bleeds for the other rectangles aren't actually bleeding over as there is no colour in the bleed sections as the rectangles get masked for some reason

 

So technically there is nothing in the bleed parts of the document

[Hangman]

25 minutes ago, Ezbaze said:

the reason I thought it was mentioning the whole thing was that the bleeds for the other rectangles aren't actually bleeding over as there is no colour in the bleed sections as the rectangles get masked for some reason

I can see the bleed okay...

I see this in Publisher where the bleed is clearly shown along with the overlapping blue rectangle on the left edge of the front cover and the overlapping horizontal line on the right edge of the back cover...

Publisher

However, when printed (rather than exported) as a Booklet, the blue rectangle bleed is no longer shown on the left edge of the front cover because it does indeed get masked on its left edge but the horizontal line bleeds on the back cover still overlaps the front cover., for some reason that doesn't get masked...

Booklet

 

[Ezbaze]

1 hour ago, Hangman said:

I can see the bleed okay...

 

The weird result I was seeing is from the test.pdf that was attached in the first post, the previous post was it being opened in Designer and this is it opened in Publisher:

For some reason, the rectangles ( The smaller ones on, the bigger one isn't bleeding over at all and isn't masked ) inside the test.pdf export are masked with a curve that prevents the bleed from bleeding over:

[Hangman]

2 hours ago, Ezbaze said:

The weird result I was seeing is from the test.pdf that was attached in the first post, the previous post was it being opened in Designer and this is it opened in Publisher

Ah, okay, I'm with you now...

The issue you're seeing when opening the PDF in Designer when opening test.pdf it opens as two artboards and there is a long-standing bug where bleed can't be viewed with artboards. If you do the following you can see the bleed is actually there, only masked...

1. Delete the Page 2 Artboard so you're left with just the Front and Back cover spread
2. Use Layer > Convert Artboard to Object to convert the Artboard to an Object
3. Change the Document units from pt's to mm
4. Under Document Setup, add a 3 mm Bleed to the Document
5. Cmd (Ctrl) Click the Blue Rectangle at the top of the Back Cover to select it in the Layers panel, (you will see the attached Mask Layer)
6. Toggle the Mask Layer off
7. Right-click the Blue Rectangle in the Layers panel and select 'Release' from the context menu
8. Cmd (Ctrl) Click the Blue Rectangle at the top of the Front Cover to select it in the Layers panel, (you will see this one is in a Group)
9. Move the Blue Rectangle layer out of the group so it sits at the root level, i.e., is no longer nested
10. Right-click the Blue Rectangle in the Layers panel and select 'Release' from the context menu
11. Repeat with the horizontal line on the back cover, again, toggle its Mask Layer off and then right-click the line and select 'Release'
12. You should now see all the elements with their respective bleed

If opening the PDF in Publisher it's far more straightforward, simply uncheck the respective mask layers for the line and blue rectangle on the back cover and move the blue rectangle on the front cover out of its group and the bleed becomes visible...