Affinity 2.1 Publisher bleed not exporting properly

[KonoKuela]

Hello,

I've got a book that my printing company (Barnes and Noble) says should be 8.5" x 11" with 0.125" bleed on all four edges. When I attempt to export to PDF, there are two options - "With bleed" and "Without Bleed". However, neither option exports the bleed. See the images below. What am I doing wrong? Note: This worked on the Affinity 1.X platform.

--B&N will print the version without bleed, but it has harsh white lines along the edges. The purpose of bleed is to prevent this. When I export "with bleed," B&N rejects the page size, which had been altered by the export process. Perhaps these images will help:

[Oufti]

1 hour ago, KonoKuela said:

 

In this image you have the bleed, to be printed on an oversized paper then trimmed to the desired size of your document.

(You don't have the crop marks visible, which are used to indicate where to trim the excess bleed.)

You could find these explanations useful:

https://www.prepressure.com/pdf/basics/page-boxes

+++++++

I don't know how Publisher is exactly handling this, nor what is your PDF export preset or what B&N expects ; I can just refer you to this:

https://affinity.help/publisher/en-US.lproj/index.html?page=pages/Publishing/bleed.html?title=Setting bleed

https://affinity.help/publisher/en-US.lproj/index.html?page=pages/Publishing/publishPDFFiles.html?title=Publishing PDF files

 

[KonoKuela]

B&N wants a PDF that's the correct size, but with bleed outside of the printable page ("trimbox").

The first link you gave tells me exactly what I'm trying to say - the bleed, referred to as the "bleedbox" in your link, is larger than the "trimbox" or final page size. The PDF file format supports this, and viewing the bleed isn't a default setting, but it can be viewed with many tools.

The second link you gave, tells me that when I export "with bleed", it will export with the trimbox expanded to the bleedbox size (to use the terminology you just introduced), and not choosing that option will leave the bleedbox and trimbox unchanged. However this appears to not be functioning - the bleedbox is getting cropped to trimbox size. It appears to be a software bug, per the links you gave and the fact it was working in Affinity 1.X and not working in Affinity 2.X.

[Old Bruce]

14 hours ago, KonoKuela said:

I've got a book that my printing company (Barnes and Noble) says should be 8.5" x 11" with 0.125" bleed on all four edges.

Are B&N asking for a document that is 8 1/2 x 11 including the 1/8th inch bleed or are they asking for a document that is 8 1/2 x 11 exclusive of the bleed?

Two possible sizes

8 1/2 x 11   giving a final page size of 8 1/4 x 10 3/4

8 3/4 x 11 1/4   giving a final page size of 8 1/2 x 11

[KonoKuela]

PDF files can have bleed in them, used for printing. You can set up a PDF with a page size of 8 1/2 x 11, and "bleedbox" of 8 3/4 x 11 1/4.

This gives three possible combinations:

Page size: 8.5 x 11  Bleedbox: 8.75 x 11.25                <- What I want.

Page size: 8.5 x 11  Bleedbox: 8.5 x 11                       <- One export option - cuts the bleed off! Prints poorly.

Page size: 8.75 x 11.25  Bleedbox: 8.75 x 11.25         <- The other export option - a different page size. B&N rejects this: wrong page size.

[stokerg]

Hi @KonoKuela,

I've been trying this with V1 and V2 and both result in an error from the B&N site.  I've also tried this with InDesign and i get the same error from the B&N site.  

You say this was working in V1, do you still have that .afpub file and if so can you attach it or upload it to our Dropbox here as i'd like to check how that's setup, as everything i've tried from V1 has resulted in the same error.

[Oufti]

2 hours ago, KonoKuela said:

Page size: 8.5 x 11  Bleedbox: 8.75 x 11.25                <- What I want.

B&N rejects this: wrong page size.

 Then the point is to know what B&N expects, because the document I exported from APub 2.1.1 opens flawlessly with different PDF viewers and look complete, with bleed and mediabox well defined… 

[Hangman]

3 hours ago, KonoKuela said:

Page size: 8.5 x 11  Bleedbox: 8.75 x 11.25                <- What I want.

Page size: 8.5 x 11  Bleedbox: 8.5 x 11                       <- One export option - cuts the bleed off! Prints poorly.

Page size: 8.75 x 11.25  Bleedbox: 8.75 x 11.25         <- The other export option - a different page size. B&N rejects this: wrong page size.

The first option is what you need, options two and three are both incorrect...

You then just need to ensure Include Bleed is selected when exporting to the relevant PDF format.

[KonoKuela]

Many thanks to you @stokerg and everyone who has looked at this.

I upgraded my files from Affinity 1 to Affinity 2 and unfortunately, I can't seem to find a copy of the old version. I also can't find the original .pdf that I sent.

However, I still have a couple of hardcopies of the book from the Affinity 1 era, which were printed properly to the edge of the page. My newer prints from Affinity 2 all have a white strip on the edge while none of the Affinity 1 prints do, which led me to assume that there was a recently introduced bug in Affinity 2.

Regardless of the root cause, I hope that you recognize the issue at hand. There seems to be no way to get both the correct page size and bleed when exporting to pdf, as Barnes and Noble requires.

Thank you for your assistance, and I looked all over for the afpub,

KonoKuela

[KonoKuela]

@Oufti - it works for you? "the document I exported from APub 2.1.1 opens flawlessly [...] with bleed and mediabox well defined"

can you attach a page with a different sized bleedbox and page size? If it works for you, I'd like to see your export settings. Thanks.

[KonoKuela]

@Hangman "You then just need to ensure Include Bleed is selected when exporting to the relevant PDF format"

When I  select "include bleed", it exports as the third option.

[R C-R]

9 hours ago, stokerg said:

I've been trying this with V1 and V2 and both result in an error from the B&N site.  I've also tried this with InDesign and i get the same error from the B&N site. 

That suggests that the issue is with B&N, not Affinity, right?

[Oufti]

Well, there is perhaps a misunderstanding about "Page size"…

• In the creator view (or client's) it means the final document's page size, when trimmed. In APub, it is defined as the Document size ; in a PDF, as the trimbox. 
• For the printer, the page size means the mediabox (the real sheet of paper he has to put in his machine to print on), which is necessarily broader than the trimbox when there's a bleed, and broader again when you include cropping marks. 

When exporting a 8 1/2" x 11" document (trimbox) with a .125" bleed around, it is normal that you end up with a 8 3/4" x 11 1/4" page sized document (trimbow < bleedbox = mediabox).
And if you include the crop marks, it adds another 1 1/4" to the final page size (trimbox < bleedbox < mediabox). 

The resulting PDF file will always be the size of the mediabox. But it includes the information that the document has to be trimmed to 8 1/2" x 11".
A common PDF Viewer as Apple's Preview maybe doesn't let you know it, but you can see it in Acrobat Reader, shown as a fine green line and the bleed around, or when you reopen the PDF with APub, in which the document placed is trimmed to the , even if outside its frame it still contains the bleed. 

 

In this picture, you see in Affinity from left to right:

1. The final document (trimbox). It will be 8 1/2" wide.
   For the sake of the example, I placed red figures and lines just inside these final document limits, not bleeding. 
2. The yellow figures adjoin the bleedbox, and green lines go far outside of it but both are restricted by the bleedbox (an extra .125" on each side, as defined in Document configuration).
3. Exporting with the crop marks (which is facultative) needs a sheet of paper even broader, enlarging again the mediabox. 

 

All of this is very normal and should not be a problem for any printer but perhaps can't he handle this specific size of paper. 

You should ask him what he wants, because we cannot guess what he is able to do. 

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by Oufti

[Oufti]

Well, there is perhaps a misunderstanding about "Page size"…

• In the creator view (or client's) it generally means the final document's page size, when bleed, cropping marks and others will be trimmed.
  In APub, it is defined as the Document size ; in a PDF, as the trimbox. 
• For the printer, the page size means the mediabox (the real sheet of paper he has to put in his machine to print on), which is necessarily broader than the trimbox when there's a bleed, and broader again when you include cropping marks. 

When exporting a 8 1/2" x 11" document (trimbox) with a .125" bleed around, it is normal that you end up with a 8 3/4" x 11 1/4" page size document (trimbow < bleedbox = mediabox).
And if you include the crop marks, it adds about another 1 1/4" to the final page size (trimbox < bleedbox < mediabox). 

The resulting PDF file will always be the size of the mediabox. But it includes the information that the document has to be trimmed to 8 1/2" x 11".
A common PDF Viewer as Apple's Preview maybe doesn't let you know it, but you can see it in Acrobat Reader, shown as a fine green line and the bleed around, or when you reopen the PDF with APub, in which the document placed is trimmed to the , even if outside its frame it still contains the bleed. 

 

In this picture, you see in Affinity, from left to right:

1. The final document (trimbox) that must be 8 1/2" wide.
2. The yellow figures and green lines go far outside of my document but they are confined inside the bleedbox (as defined in Document configuration). 
3. Exporting with the crop marks needs a sheet of paper even broader, defined as the mediabox. 

 

All of this is very normal and should not be a problem for any printer.  But perhaps doesn't he handle this specific size of paper?

You should ask him what he wants, because we cannot guess what he is able to do.

[Hangman]

7 hours ago, KonoKuela said:

When I  select "include bleed", it exports as the third option.

Affinity Publisher v2.1

Page Size - 8.5" x 11.0"
Bleed - 0.125"

Exported PDF File

Media Box (Red line) - 9.36111" x 11.86111"
Bleed Box (Yellow Line) - 8.75000" x 11.25000"
Trim Box (Blue Line) - 8.50000" x 11.00000"

Hi @KonoKuela,

Questions

1. Could you either upload or provide a screenshot of the B&N Guidelines?
2. Could you also upload a sample page from your book exported from Publisher v2 that includes crop marks so we can take a look?
3. Does your Publisher file include any non-nested adjustment layers in the layers panel?

As @stokerg says, if the above sizes are as per B&N's guidelines then you can see that a file exported from Publisher matches those requirements exactly so if uploading the file to B&N results in an error then this has to be an issue with B&N, unless there is something specific in their guidelines that we're not aware off, which is why it would be helpful to see the full specs.

 

[KonoKuela]

Thank you @Oufti and @Hangman for your help.

I've included some information that I hope sheds some light on our situation. I had assumed that the issue was with Affinity and not Barnes & Noble, considering the larger size of B&N, but now I'm not so sure.

 

1) My page and bleed settings in Affinity:

2) Three exports - one with no bleed with crop marks, one with bleed and with crop marks, and the last with bleed and no crop marks. @Hangman, my pdf editor doesn't show the "page boxes" sizes the way yours does. I would be really interested to see them.

Howl1- without include bleed option.pdfHowl2 - with include bleed checked.pdfHowl1- with include bleed option no crop marks.pdf

3) The B&N print guidelines.

I really appreciate your help. It's been a long road of frustration here!

 

 

[Hangman]

Hi @KonoKuela,

So your files are absolutely correct... This is how B&N specify their Guidelines...

This is your file (with printers marks)... as you can see, both the bleed and trim boxes are the correct size.

And this is your file with bleed but without crop marks, which is how I assume B&N require the PDF to be provided. Again, you can see the Media and Trim box sizes are both correct.

Other than rejecting the file, do you get any additional information when you attempt to upload the file as to the cause of the issue?

[Old Bruce]

I think the key here is that as @stokerg said after looking at the file

On 7/3/2023 at 7:54 AM, stokerg said:

I've been trying this with V1 and V2 and both result in an error from the B&N site.  I've also tried this with InDesign and i get the same error from the B&N site.  

B&N rejects the files from Affinity and InDesign. So in my opinion the problem may well be with B&N's site, not Affinity or Adobe.

[Hangman]

7 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

B&N rejects the files from Affinity and InDesign. So in my opinion the problem may well be with B&N's site, not Affinity or Adobe.

I would have to agree...

[KonoKuela]

Wow! Thank you guys so much. I see that you took extra time to help me pinpoint this and your time is thoroughly appreciated. My only course is to take this up with B&N or find another printer I guess. Have a great 4th!

[Hangman]

Hi @KonoKuela,

Let us know how you get on, it would be really helpful for other’s reading this thread in the future to know where the problem lies and if the issue is a B&N one and what the actual issue turns out to be… 😊

In the meantime, I hope you find a resolution to the problem.

[KonoKuela]

I will be sure to update the thread with the answer.

THANK YOU, again. This has been so helpful and you guys have really helped hammer it down. I was convinced it was Affinity and not B&N, and having the proof you provided will help me tremendously with B&N.