I am soooo frustrated with this 'soft proofing' and NO ONE helping! Sure, I have used soft proofing

[David4]

mystrawberrymonkey

 

 

Please Help

 

 

I am soooo frustrated with this 'soft proofing' and NO ONE helping!   Sure, I have used soft proofing.   Have you, Big_Stan, attempted to have the exported image match what comes out as the .tiff and then open it in Photoshop?  There is no match!  Just does not happen!

 

I just cannot send to the Epson Pro 9900 printer the image in the tiff image file in PS CS5.  It does not match the original image file. Even if my custom printer profile is applied, there is no match.  Further more, sending the image through LR 6.4, or Printao 8, is useless.

 

In my workflow I used to use, the image in LR 6.4, edited for size, in PS CS5 is a perfect match (if any match is perfect).

 

My goal is to have AP become use staple in my workflow.

 

In previous posts I asked if what I was doing was correct.  I attached screen shots.  I have tried different combinations of settings available.  I still cannot get the digital image file to match the original

 

I have studied this effort with the X-Rite 24 patch target.  What more can I write?

 

Alan, please help!    Alan, your video lessons are have the right tempo for me!   

 

Kind Regards,

 

David

[Peterkaosa]

Hello David4,

 

you have a lot of questions. Maybe that is why you don't receive answers?

 

I would like to help you, unfortunately I cannot follow your words. What does "I just cannot send to the Epson Pro 9900 printer the image in the tiff image file in PS CS5.  It does not match the original image file" mean?

 

How would one know if an image matches its output? Do you mean that what you see on screen differs from your printed output? Then I'd like to know what your tif looks like, is it cmyk or rgb, is it 8bit or 16bit deep, do you use a lot of layers or is it reduced to one final one?

 

"I have studied this effort with the X-Rite 24 patch target" is another sentence that doesn't tell me anything. What is the X-Rite patch target? I don't want to spend my time googling but would refer to understand your problems and then maybe help you.

[David4]

Excellent questions, Peterkaosa.  The X-rite 24 patch target is a standard for photographers.  It is used for neutral white, or as some say, white balance.  It's a long time standard in the professional photography industry.  It's been used for film and now digital imaging.  With a custom profiled NEC MultiSync PA 272w display, and a custom profiled Epson Pro 9900 (ink and substrate) what is on the acid free, archival, watercolor paper looks, nearly the same as what's on the NEC display.  My guarantee to my clients promises nothing can come out perfect.  Though, sometimes it appear it does. 

 

RPP 64 uses the 24 patch target to create a sensor/lens/lighting custom profile for a shoot.   There are other applications that also use the target for creating custom .icc profiles.

 

My working space is ProPhoto RGB.  I use 16 bit, tiff image files.  Layers are flattened.  I see on my NEC display two different examples of the image file to be printed.  What I am about to  print after export, does not look the same as what is in AP.   

 

Since I soft proof, what I view on my NEC display from the PS CS5, is what the final print will almost look like.  I may have to refine the image file a bit.

 

My workflow for digitalizing original art is quite simple.  I simply must make the finest reproduction of the artist's original art as I possibly can.   Being color managed throughout my entire studio and workflow makes my process simple.   No introductions of any kind of manipulations.

 

Color managed means, camera's sensor, and lens, and lighting are custom profiled for the shoot.  The NEC display is custom profiled daily.  The Epson Pro 9900 is custom profiled for each and every substrate I have in the studio.  That includes Epson matte Signature Worthy canvas.

 

Yes, I ask lots of questions!   I really want to completely migrate to AP!

 

Did I answer all your questions?

 

I don't print out of AP.   I print using LSI's Printao 8 printer software.  I have mentioned this before in previous posts.  This might help any confusion of how I print.  

 

Sometimes I print out of LR 6.4, an image file that I had changed dimensions, and added borders.  The point is, that very same image file showing up in PS CS5 on my display is the image file going to the printer, whether from LR 6.4, or Printao 8.

 

You may consider visiting: colorsync-users-request@lists.apple.com.   I am not a color scientist.   That list does have color scientists.  Just might help.

[David4]

Peterkoasa

 

This is a bug at least since Feb 2015.   And has not even been admitted by the good people of Serif.    It's still one going.  No wonder I am not able to use AP for my professional, or any digital imaging work! ! ! ! 

This might help you....there is a bug in AP! ! !     Yah...too many questions. For a good reason:

 

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/4712-color-management-weirdness/

 

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 01:39 PM

 

This is a serious problem for me

My working space for RAW files in PhotoshopCC 2014, Lightroom 5.7, Capture One Pro 8, and Iridient Developer is and will be Prophoto RGB (LR uses Mellissa RGB I believe which is close to Prophoto)

Opening any one of my RAW files in all programs except Aiffinity gives correct colors on my calibrated monitor.

Affinity gives over saturated images with a strong color cast which can only be corrected by assigning either Apple RGB or sRGB neither of which I want to use.

 

 

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 12:31 PM

I have the same problem. I want to work in ProPhoto, but I'm not able to get accurate colors. Maybe I'm missing something and am just accustomed to using PS for years. I'd assume I'd be able to figure it out though.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[My Strawberry Monkey]

Alan, please help!    Alan, your video lessons are have the right tempo for me!   

 

Kind Regards,

 

David

 

 

 

Hi David, Thanks for reaching out and the feedback, it's truly appreciated.

 

Sorry you're having difficulties, i'm pretty sure if someone had an answer they would have mentioned it for you.

 

First of all it was really difficult trying to understand your post. But reading it a few times and the other post you linked too, my understanding is that you are using the ProPhoto RGB working space and imported 16 bit, tiff image files. But once you export you are seeing a noticeable difference in colours between the exported image and what you were working with in Affinity Photo.  Then you use other software to print, I hope I understood correctly.

 

When you go to Export can you click on more and check you have embed ICC profile ticked.

 

 

 

 

I don't have the set up you have so it would be be impossible for me too replicate your issue to try to find a solution. Like I said I hope I understood also I know the team are constantly working on improvements so if there are any bugs i'm sure they will be fixed in due course and as previously mentioned from another discussion feedback is always welcomed. Keep asking questions, there are a ton the team need to go through and i'm sure in due course yours will get answered. It would help though if your questions were refined and simplified you may get more responses.

 

Let me know if that boxed is checked as I don't personally have any issues in differences in colour until I uncheck that box.

 

 

Allan

[David4]

Ask more question?  Me?  Peterkoasa and others complain I ask too many questions.

 

Allan, enclosed screen shots show what I am able to do.   One of your screen shots show a blank in presets.   I am unable to make it blank.  Stays tiff RGB 16-bit.  

 

Quotes from last year showing color management is flawed or non existent.  

 

Tutorials, are not going to make flawed color management go away.

 

As I have written before,  image files in my usual and customary workflow do not have this problem.  LR 6.4 to PS CS5. Even with RPP 64 > LR 6.4 > PS CS5.   

 

 

 

 

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 01:39 PM

 

This is a serious problem for me

My working space for RAW files in PhotoshopCC 2014, Lightroom 5.7, Capture One Pro 8, and Iridient Developer is and will be Prophoto RGB (LR uses Mellissa RGB I believe which is close to Prophoto)

Opening any one of my RAW files in all programs except Aiffinity gives correct colors on my calibrated monitor.

Affinity gives over saturated images with a strong color cast which can only be corrected by assigning either Apple RGB or sRGB neither of which I want to use.

 

 

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 12:31 PM

I have the same problem. I want to work in ProPhoto, but I'm not able to get accurate colors. Maybe I'm missing something and am just accustomed to using PS for years. I'd assume I'd be able to figure it out though.  

 

[David4]

This is extremely misleading.   False advertising.  Carefully read the promotion.  I fell for it.

 

Serif........give us color managment

 

Affinity Photo - Professional image editing software for Mac

affinity.serif.com/en-us/photo

•  
•  

Affinity Photo - the fastest, smoothest, most precise professional image editing software, ... Chosen by Apple as the best Mac App of 2015. 5 years in the making,Affinity Photo redefines the boundaries for professional photo editing ... End-to-end CMYK workflow with ICC colour management, and 16-bit per channel editing.

 

 

[R C-R]

David, like others have said it is very difficult to understand what your problem is, other than (I think) you are not getting the same results with Affinity Photo in your workflow as with (I think) CS 5. Repeating the same things in different posts & in different topics is not making it any clearer, & to be honest about it your increasingly combative tone is off-putting, making me hesitant about getting involved.

 

I do understand that you are frustrated that you cannot get the results you want with AP, but I think it would be better if you concentrated on furnishing a clearer, step by step description of your workflow with & without AP, explaining (where possible with screen shots) exactly what it is you see.

[My Strawberry Monkey]

 

Ask more question?  Me?  Peterkoasa and others complain I ask too many questions.

 

Allan, enclosed screen shots show what I am able to do.   One of your screen shots show a blank in presets.   I am unable to make it blank.  Stays tiff RGB 16-bit.  

 

 

 

 

Hi David,

 

My hope was you'd simply answer back and say either yes or no to whether the embed ICC profile was ticked. It appears by your screenshots that it is ticked so that wouldn't be the issue, and I didn't want you to focus on anything else but the  ICC box thats why I left the preset blank.  I was trying narrow it down step by step which would be a logical thing to do to try to isolate the issue.

 

I would say focus on the issue at hand that you have, posting supporting evidence from other posts esp if they are over a year old wont solve the current issue you are having and still others that read this are not any wiser or any clearer to your issue. There is a great support network here including myself who spend  a lot of time teaching, making tutorials answering questions on here, other social media and in my other teaching job. So, questions are fine but like I said maybe refine them or restructure your posts. For example if this was an issue I was experiencing i'd probably put it like this...

 

 

Hey guys, I'm having some issues with colour management when I export my images from Affinity Photo. I'm working in the ProPhoto RGB colour space and have imported a 16 bit, tiff image. But once I export i'm seeing a noticeable difference in colours.

 

Here is  the image i'm working with....

 

 

 

But this is what it looks like when I export...

 

 

 

And these are my settings for exporting...

 

 

Is anyone else having this issue? any help would be appreciated.....

 

 

 

 

Now, a post like that is easier to understand and if no one was able to answer it may mean posting a .AFPHOTO file that you're having issue with and let others test it out on other Mac's and if no is able to replicate the issue, we have now isolated the issue to your particular set up. If we were to replicate the issues we can then try to work on a solution for you.

 

 

Hope this helps...

 

 

 

Allan

[David4]

Yes, Allan.  It is ticked.  You may have missed my screen shots.

 

Yes, Allan.  This is what I am writing.

 

Hey guys, I'm having some issues with colour management when I export my images from Affinity Photo. I'm working in the ProPhoto RGB colour space and have imported a 16 bit, tiff image. But once I export i'm seeing a noticeable difference in colours.

 

D

[My Strawberry Monkey]

Yes, Allan.  It is ticked.  You may have missed my screen shots.

 

Yes, Allan.  This is what I am writing.

 

Hey guys, I'm having some issues with colour management when I export my images from Affinity Photo. I'm working in the ProPhoto RGB colour space and have imported a 16 bit, tiff image. But once I export i'm seeing a noticeable difference in colours.

 

D

 

Hi David,

 

Yes I saw the screenshots, Thank you.

 

Ok, a couple of questions that just came to me.

 

1. Are you importing the original image in to Affinity Photo (is it a Photo) or is this some form of artwork you are recreating?

2. When you export from Affinity Photo are you viewing the image in Preview on the mac or another piece of software?

3.  Are you using the Soft Proof Adjustment ? If so are you aware this is for preview only, it does not affect the final print or export of your photo.

 

Allan

[csp]

to test if AP handles color correct i suggest to download a colorchecker reference image like those available from http://babelcolor.com/colorchecker-2.htm#CCP2_images

 

1. use the lates version of AP and an actual OS set workspace to sRGB

 

2. make sure that  "warning when working profile is assigned to image without profile "  is checked

 

3. make sure "convert open images to workspace profile"  is unchecked.

 

4. download a prophoto colorchecker reference image and open it in AP  ( the images have no embedded profile )

 

AP should now warn you that the sRGB workspace profile is assigned to the image and the colors should look faded and wrong

 

5. go to assign color profile and apply the prophoto icc profile to the image

 

AP should now display the image with correct saturation and color 

 

6. save the file under a different name as tiff with document profile embedded

 

7. open the new created image

 

 

when  both images look the same you have the proof that AP handles image profiles correct and you have to look somewhere else to solve the issue.

[kirkt]

A couple of questions for the frustrated OP:

 

1) How is your color management policy set up in the "Preferences > Colour Profiles" section?  What is your RGB Color space (your working color space) and do you have any automatic conversion to the working space (with or without warning) enabled?

 

2) RPP cannot convert into ProPhotoRGB (it is not a choice in the RPP application) - assuming you do your raw conversion in RPP into color space "X" (BetaRGB, sRGB, etc.) and then have RPP automatically open the resulting TIFF in AP, does the color space into which the RPP conversion was performed persist in the AP interface (does the color profile for the image info read correctly in the tool bar area under the Persona icons)?  Or has it changed to something else (through an unexpected conversion or assignment)?

 

- As an example, I do not have AP set up to convert incoming files automatically into the working space.  I have set my AP working space as BetaRGB and I convert my raw files in RPP into BetaRGB when I export them into AP.

 

3) What does your image (soft-proof or not) look like compared to what you expect?  Is it desaturated compared to what you expect?  Are some types of images more strongly affected/erroneously displayed than others (more saturated, more shadow tones)?

 

Can you take a single screenshot of the image, as displayed incorrectly in AP, side-by-side with the same image displayed correctly in another application?  Doing it this way (with both images displayed at the same time, side-by-side) eliminates problems with the potential mismatch between the color spaces of separate screen grabs.  What is the "reference" application that you are using to make the determination that things in AP are not right?

 

It sounds like you have a color management issue somewhere in your AP workflow.  Even if you export from RPP in a color space that is not your AP working space, color management should display and handle everything correctly.  Same goes with soft-proofing, within the ability of your display to show you an accurate representation of the colors in your image.

 

kirk

[David4]

Kirk.  I appreciate you know RPP.  

1) How is your color management policy set up in the "Preferences > Colour Profiles" section?  What is your RGB Color space (your working color space) and do you have any automatic conversion to the working space (with or without warning) enabled?

 

convert opened files to working space is NOT checked.

 

Keeping all three image programs in beta RGB, what I find is RPP and tiff images appear the same in PC CS5.  These images appear more saturated and brighter in AP.

 

I'm trying my best to follow everyones suggestions.  Still don't know if black point compensation is to checked or un checked.

 

Will Lanczos 3 (non-separable) make any color, saturation, or density changes?

 

Under Document > assign icc profile, what do you suggest?

[kirkt]

Am I interpreting your screenshots correctly - you are using a beta version of AP?  What version are you using?

 

Also - I can see in some of your screenshots three different windows of the same image (the color checker image) - the foreground image appears to be AP with a soft-proof adjustment, the middle appears to be Photoshop (with the icon in the title bar) and the rear image appears to be RPP (with a custom ICC camera profile applied).  Is this correct?

 

The AP image definitely looks different and more saturated.  Is the Photoshop rendering in the screenshot in Soft Proof mode, with the same ICC (Epson) profile applied as in AP?  If soft proofing is disabled in both AP and Photoshop, do all of the images look identical?  How about not soft-proofing in Absolute Colorimetric rendering intent, but in a more reasonable intent like Perceptual or Rel Colorimetric?

 

What happens if you do not use a beta version of AP?

 

kirk

[kirkt]

Here is what I get when I use RPP in BetaRGB, open the resulting TIFF in AP, APbeta and PS and turn soft-proofing on in all three applications, relative colorimetric, Epson 3880 Photo Glossy profile. it appears that AP applies a "paper white" simulation to the soft proof adjustment.

 

kirk

 

[David4]

AP 1.4.2 beta 3 in use.     The screen shot with the soft proofing window open is the correct soft proofing.    Your view of the screen captures is correct.  Everything is in beta RGB, since that is what RPP uses.

 

Includes  AP and PS CS5.    Have not used the non beta version since Learned about the beta 3.   The color differences  existed in 1.4.1.

 

Another screen shot inclueded.    

 

Is black point compensation to be checked or unchecked?

 

I use Perceptual rendering.   Have used it for at least ten years.  Learned this from classes, lecturers, books like Real World Color Management by Bruce Fraser, Chris Murphy, and Fred Bunting.  Date on this book is 2003.   ProPhoto RGB is considered by some too large of a working color space, yet that is what I still use.   Before AP, I would finish RPP in LAB tiff, 16 bit..  Convert to ProPhoto RGB in PS CS5. 

 

The printer/ink/substrate is custom profiles by me.  So is the display.   Tools are i1Pro version D, spectrophotometer.  For display profiling is use SpectroView II software.

 

Currently print to Epson SW cold press, natural watercolor paper.

[kirkt]

Your screen shot shows your soft proof using absolute colorimetric rendering intent. Are your custom printer profiles v2 or v4?

 

Kirk

 

PS - RPP is my go-to raw converter - highest quality conversions.

[David4]

Kirk, please show me where I use absolute colorimetric rendering intent.  Or are you messaging someone else?

 

Today, I have been using RP, LR, and PS CS5 for my job.  It works for me.

 

Sure do wish someone could guide me in AP, should it be I don't know how to use the application.  I thought the videos and other help were guiding me to use PA to it's fullest.  

 

If AP is perfect as is, I need one superior tutorial, in slow motion, to guide me through the process of color management.

 

My work with RPP >  LR  >  and PS CS5, is what I have been using and works.   Again, my dream is to do this AP.

[David4]

Here is an image file completely processed in AP.   RAW converted, soft proofed, sized, and exported.  Opened in PS CS5....the screen shot of them together shows they don't match.   My goal was to make the image in AP to be perfect and ready to print.   And it is.    You can see the image in PS CS5 is not as saturated as in the AP image.

 

What's the point?  Not salable.

 

I use Printao 8 and would simply slide the PC CS5 image into Printao 8, and print.  What I see in PS CS5 is what is printed in Printao 8.

[jmac]

What is soooo frustrating to me, as someone who looks to this forum for information and understanding of unfamiliar concepts, techniques and programs, is when posters use single letter abbreviations assuming everyone already knows what they mean, instead of spelling out the words, at least once, so those who don't know what RPP is, for example, might learn something from the post.

[JimmyJack]

LMGTFY  :D

 

(to be fair, I didn't know what it was either...)

[csp]

Here is an image file completely processed in AP.   RAW converted, soft proofed, sized, and exported.  Opened in PS CS5....the screen shot of them together shows they don't match.   My goal was to make the image in AP to be perfect and ready to print.   And it is.    You can see the image in PS CS5 is not as saturated as in the AP image.

 

What's the point?  Not salable.

 

I use Printao 8 and would simply slide the PC CS5 image into Printao 8, and print.  What I see in PS CS5 is what is printed in Printao 8.

the images in you sreenshot have different color profile embedded so depending on you CM settings the difference you see is not unusual.  imho everything comes down to wrong CM policy settings in AP and PS.  but it seems you are not interested to test your setup with an external file to clear things as i suggested but this way we don´t get to the core of the problem. 

[kirkt]

Kirk, please show me where I use absolute colorimetric rendering intent.  Or are you messaging someone else?

 

Today, I have been using RP, LR, and PS CS5 for my job.  It works for me.

 

Sure do wish someone could guide me in AP, should it be I don't know how to use the application.  I thought the videos and other help were guiding me to use PA to it's fullest.  

 

If AP is perfect as is, I need one superior tutorial, in slow motion, to guide me through the process of color management.

 

My work with RPP >  LR  >  and PS CS5, is what I have been using and works.   Again, my dream is to do this AP.

 

 

I was looking at your first screenshot in post #14 - that shows the soft proof adjustment layer dialog with Abs Col. selected.

 

Because you are using a custom printer-paper profile (and display profile), I am interested to know:

 

1) Is it ICC version 2 or version 4.  Some applications do not support version 4.

2) If you use an Epson printer-paper profile, do you have this problem.

 

And I also want to make sure that I am fully understanding the issue - the comparisons that you have demonstrated here (for example, showing the rendering of the soft-proof image in AP versus PS) are with both images rendered in soft-proofing mode, with the same rendering intent selected, etc. in each application.

 

In the above screen shot (post #20) you appear to be comparing PS to AP.  The HISTORY panel in AP appears to show that you opened the document, added a soft proof layer with some selected adjustment to the soft proof layer, then you FLATTENED the document, burning the soft proof appearance into the document.  Then you added a curves layer, etc.  

 

At this point, I am not sure we are comparing apples to apples.

 

Try this:

 

Exercise A

 

1) Open the RPP TIFF in AP and PS.  Make no adjustments, etc. just open the image.  Make sure AP and PS are both set up to use BetaRGB as the working space, and confirm that the opened image is in BetaRGB.

2) In AP, add a soft proof adjustment layer and select a canned Epson printer-paper profile (i.e., not one of your custom profiles) to display as the soft proof, with your preferred rendering intent.  Enable BPC (black point compensation).

3) In PS, choose "View > Proof Setup > Custom..." and chose to soft proof with the exact same canned Epson profile you applied in (2) with the same rendering intent as in (2) and with BPC and "Simulate Paper Color" enabled.

 

Now compare the two images.

 

Exercise B

 

Repeat Exercise A, but with your custom printer-paper profile applied as the soft proofing profile in both AP and PS.  You may have to re-apply/activate the specific rendering intent, BPC and Simulate Paper Color.  

 

Compare the two images.

 

Questions:

 

1) In Exercise A, do the AP and PS images appear different?

2) In Exercise B, do the AP and PS images appear different?  Do the Exercise B images appear different than the exercise A images?

 

Let us know how it goes.

 

kirk

[kirkt]

What is soooo frustrating to me, as someone who looks to this forum for information and understanding of unfamiliar concepts, techniques and programs, is when posters use single letter abbreviations assuming everyone already knows what they mean, instead of spelling out the words, at least once, so those who don't know what RPP is, for example, might learn something from the post.

 

RPP is an abbreviation for Raw Photo Processor.  Here is a link to the Raw Photo Processor website if you are interested in learning more about this raw converter:

 

https://www.raw-photo-processor.com/RPP/Overview.html

 

If you Google RPP (www.google.com) it shows up a couple of times in the top ten links.  Given we are talking about raw conversion into AP (Affinity Photo) it is pretty safe to assume that RPP (Raw Photo Processor) has to do with photo processing.

 

In the above discussions, AP is an abbreviation for Affinity Photo and PS is an abbreviation for Photoshop.  These are image processing applications that often are used for post-production of images converted from raw files into RGB files.  ICC is an abbreviation for "International Color Consortium" which is an organization that defines the protocol and standardization for color management tools like device and color space profiles.

 

Hope that helps you get oriented with the use of abbreviations in this thread.

 

kirk