Jump to content
You must now use your email address to sign in [click for more info] ×

Recommended Posts

40 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

Though I usually don't want have to wear always a helmet or ski goggles, in order to communicate with my assistant and let interesting things and possible solutions shown to me.

Recently, I devoted half an hour to trying out a pair of 'ski goggles.' Once you have the opportunity to experience it (which I hope you do next year), you will comprehend why individuals willingly overlook the weighty apparatus attached to their faces. It undeniably feels burdensome and peculiar, but here's the crucial point: you'll find yourself yearning to remain in that state indefinitely.

See my comics: dearmascomics.com

Heard my Radio Show: mimegaradio.com

Ask for my services: albertkinng.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, albertkinng said:

It undeniably feels burdensome and peculiar, but here's the crucial point: you'll find yourself yearning to remain in that state indefinitely.

So basically, you are saying it has all the hallmarks of an addiction?

Anyway, regarding Apple's AR device, most who have tried Apple's demo of it agree that the technology that powers it is groundbreaking & amazing, but there are many expressing concerns about its touted advantages over more conventional devices, the need for customized parts to get a comfortable fit, the limited portability & battery life vs. other devices like iPhones & iPads, & various other issues that might come to light once the actual product comes to market.

Reactions among industry heavyweights range from 'it will change the world' to 'Apple jumped the shark with this one.'

As for its relevance to this topic, I think it will be similar in that some people will consider the availability of AI/AR/VR features to be a major factor in what they are willing to purchase, & some won't.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V23.0 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, albertkinng said:

... Once you have the opportunity to experience it (which I hope you do next year) ...

For sure I will give it some tryouts in order to see, if it offers some of the visual fascination I'm personally after here. Even knowing that they are still at their beginnings with it, some of the WWDC dev track sneak peeks are already slightly showing where the future will tend to go to here.

Personally, I like the idea of having some giant virtual room-filling coding screens and then doing some pairprogramming along with an improved and learnable Siri-like interface (or even better something similar to J.A.R.V.I.S.). - It will be interesting to see what comes out of it.

Angry tongues will now say "...the boy just watches too many science fiction films". 😉

☛ Affinity Designer 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 ◆ OSX El Capitan
☛ Affinity V2.3 apps ◆ MacOS Sonoma 14.2 ◆ iPad OS 17.2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

For sure I will give it some tryouts in order to see, if it offers some of the visual fascination I'm personally after here.

Keep in mind that for Apple's device it is unclear if tryouts will be permitted or how they will work, in part because it uses a custom fitted insert between the goggles part & the face, & since there is no room for glasses if the user needs them, custom lenses (or some such) must be fitted into the interior of the device.

So far, it seems that buyers must either go to an Apple store or possibly use a latest generation iPhone to map the face for the inserts, but for eyeglass wearers it still remains to be seen how that will work.

Regardless, this does not seem to be a device that can simply & easily be used by more than one person, but time will tell....

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V23.0 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

Keep in mind that for Apple's device it is unclear if tryouts will be permitted or how they will work, in part because it uses a custom fitted insert between the goggles part & the face, & since there is no room for glasses if the user needs them ...

That's of no problem in my case here in terms of glasses. Also, nobody normally buys such a 3.5K-4K device without ever having tried one, or seen it in person, at least not me!

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

So far, it seems that buyers must either go to an Apple store or possibly use a latest generation iPhone to map the face for the inserts, but for eyeglass wearers it still remains to be seen how that will work.

For the use cases I have in mind, there is no need to show my face to somebody else at all, so keeping myself then to be more ... anonymous2.jpg.cba8504dc2d4c3d3c9216f806e13016d.jpg

Further Apple has still some time to polish things here overall operation wise and for those who wear glasses, until that product is really available on the market (maybe sometime next year).

 

☛ Affinity Designer 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 ◆ OSX El Capitan
☛ Affinity V2.3 apps ◆ MacOS Sonoma 14.2 ◆ iPad OS 17.2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

For the use cases I have in mind, there is no need to show my face to somebody else at all, so keeping myself then to be more ...

It isn't just about that. Your face has to be scanned in 3D so a properly fitting insert can be created. It is definitely not a one size fits all device.

As for the glasses thing, they have already said custom inserts will be required, although supposedly they will be easy to remove or change out so others can use the same device.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V23.0 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, R C-R said:

It isn't just about that. Your face has to be scanned in 3D so a properly fitting insert can be created. It is definitely not a one size fits all device.

The device itself offers to do that, it will scan your face to create a 3D digital avatar for video calls and the like. - Though if an Apple store maybe offers to create a more accurate 3D scan of your face for the device, then people can take that too into account.

We will see then if there are maybe still some possible hurdles to take, when the devices will be in near future officially available and the first early adopters then do spread their opinions and reviews all over the net.

☛ Affinity Designer 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 ◆ OSX El Capitan
☛ Affinity V2.3 apps ◆ MacOS Sonoma 14.2 ◆ iPad OS 17.2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

The device itself offers to do that, it will scan your face to create a 3D digital avatar for video calls and the like.

How can a device that fits over just one part of your face scan enough of it to create the avatar? Besides, this is about more than just creating the avatar. The custom insert is an integral part of the design, ensuring not only that it offers a comfortable fit but also that the eye to screen distance is optimized (apparently important for accurate sensing of eye movement), & (apparently) that the downward facing 3D cameras that record finger gestures are spaced far enough from the face to have an optimal view of the fingers.

The technology involved to make the whole thing work properly is much more complicated that it might seem.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V23.0 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, R C-R said:

How can a device that fits over just one part of your face scan enough of it ...

See the parts of the Keynote where they are talking about that ...

https://www.tiktok.com/@cnetdotcom/video/7241315349843529002

https://www.apple.com/apple-events/

 

☛ Affinity Designer 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 ◆ OSX El Capitan
☛ Affinity V2.3 apps ◆ MacOS Sonoma 14.2 ◆ iPad OS 17.2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

See the parts of the Keynote where they are talking about that ...

I can't get the Apple video to play & I won't give tictok my info so I can't view that either.

But it really doesn't matter because (again!) it is not just about creating the avatar, so how can a device that you do not yet actually have in your possession do a scan to get the measurements for the insert that goes between the face & the goggles? Are you going to buy the thing without the insert, use it to scan your face, send that info to Apple, & then have them send you the insert?

As for buying without first trying, consider how many people preorder new iPhones, Macs, or Watches the day they are announced, & the lines that appear at Apple stores when they become available.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V23.0 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

I can't get the Apple video to play

Just click on the "Watch the keynote" link there in your webbrowser, as everyone else did and does in order to see the keynote. TikTok just view that video there no need to make a account or something like that (I just found it by searching and saw that it shows the face scanning part of the Vision Pro from the WWDC keynote), afterwards if you may panic due to cookies or the like, just empty all your webrowsers cookies + cache entirely via your webbrowsers menu option.

Further it doesn't make sense if you argue about such technical things, if you even didn't looked the keynote about it and how they implemented to use certain things, like the face scanning, there for that Vision Pro device at all. - Instead of speculating and debating here about if the device's has face scanning capability, look first after how it is intended to be used for that accordingly and what it should offer!

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

As for buying without first trying, consider how many people preorder new iPhones, Macs, or Watches the day they are announced, & the lines that appear at Apple stores when they become available.

If other people don't inform and don't tryout any devices they are going to buy for a bunch of money, then that's their problem not mine. - So I don't care much about what other people do or don't do, but instead I care about what I personally do!

☛ Affinity Designer 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 ◆ OSX El Capitan
☛ Affinity V2.3 apps ◆ MacOS Sonoma 14.2 ◆ iPad OS 17.2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, v_kyr said:

Just click on the "Watch the keynote" link there in your webbrowser...

I have no idea why but when I do that I get a dark rectangle overlay with a message saying The Video Could Not Be Played, like this:couldnot.jpg.96f3ec32b6477544fc136015cf87bd9d.jpg

3 hours ago, v_kyr said:

Further it doesn't make sense if you argue about such technical things, if you even didn't looked the keynote about it...

Long ago I quit watching these keynotes because they are in essence commercials hyping the upside of the products while downplaying the downsides (& not infrequently leaving out details like when some touted feature actually will be implemented). So instead, I follow what the press & various industry bigwigs have to say, taking it all with a very large grain of salt, particularly for products that have an indeterminate future launch date.

So far, I have read about 20 articles about it, some saying it is destined to be an overhyped flop, others that it will change the entire world of computing. Most have mentioned that the demos are very impressive but there has been more than a little concern about how representative they are of real world use outside the environment Apple controls, sort of like how certain well known flaws in certain Apple products only became evident once consumers started using them in everyday situations.

More than anything else, there is considerable concern that this type of device will never become very popular among consumers, in part because, as revolutionary as the interface is, it is still best suited for 'big screen' viewing by one person at a time, so for instance it isn't going to appeal to very many people who want to share photos, play games, or watch movies with others.

Of course, time will tell, so it is all speculation at this point. Things could look very different in a year or two, but for now there is no product we can check out to see if the hype is justified or not.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V23.0 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Video's play fine for me, in both Safari and Brave.

image.thumb.png.be4846d4b427a3e2023fca949f41198e.png

iMac 27" 2019 Somona 14.3.1, iMac 27" Affinity Designer, Photo & Publisher V1 & V2, Adobe, Inkscape, Vectorstyler, Blender, C4D, Sketchup + more... XP-Pen Artist-22E, - iPad Pro 12.9  B| (Please refrain from licking the screen while using this forum)

Affinity Help - Affinity Desktop Tutorials - Feedback - FAQ - most asked questions

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, firstdefence said:

Video's play fine for me, in both Safari and Brave.

Here too, even under an pretty old MacOS with outdated Safari, FF and Chrome webbrowsers!

☛ Affinity Designer 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 ◆ OSX El Capitan
☛ Affinity V2.3 apps ◆ MacOS Sonoma 14.2 ◆ iPad OS 17.2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, R C-R said:

How can a device that fits over just one part of your face scan enough of it to create the avatar?

I assume there are cameras on the front the mask looking out. Perhaps you hold it at arm's length and take a selfie with those cameras.

Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.2 
Affinity Designer 2.3.1 | Affinity Photo 2.3.1 | Affinity Publisher 2.3.1 | Beta versions as they appear.

I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Old Bruce said:

I assume there are cameras on the front the mask looking out. Perhaps you hold it at arm's length and take a selfie with those cameras.

 

 

☛ Affinity Designer 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 ◆ OSX El Capitan
☛ Affinity V2.3 apps ◆ MacOS Sonoma 14.2 ◆ iPad OS 17.2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Old Bruce said:

I assume there are cameras on the front the mask looking out. Perhaps you hold it at arm's length and take a selfie with those cameras.

Well, they talk about doing this after "a quick enrollment process" but from what I have read this enrollment process takes about 30 minutes & is (at least for now) not something a user can do by themselves. But that has nothing to do with what I have been talking about regarding the insert that goes between the googles where the computer, cameras, et al are housed & the face. (If you do not know what I mean, check out the picture in the  https://macdailynews.com/2023/06/09/david-pogue-apple-vision-pro-is-one-freaking-mind-blowing-piece-of-tech/ article.)

As I understand it, this rather large piece must be custom shaped to fit over the contours of an individual's upper face, to prevent light leaks that could interfere with eye tracking, place the screens at the optimal optical distance from the eyes to maximize the 3D depth effects, ensure that the downward facing cameras that read finger gestures are not too close to the cheeks, & of course help provide the most comfortable wearing experience possible.

Obviously I hope, even if users can do the required 3D face mapping to get the data for this with the builtin cameras, they still would have to wait for Apple to give them the proper insert before they can use the device. Apparently, the few members of the press who were able to try out the demo did have their faces scanned & were using inserts Apple provided, but it isn't clear when or how this was done, or if Apple had a pre-made set of inserts for them to use.

Anyway, the tl;dr version is this is not a 'one size fits all' device, nor is it intended to be. How Apple will handle in-store tryouts once the product actually becomes available is anybody's guess but I suspect it is going be significantly more complicated than it would be for demoing an iPhone or Mac.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V23.0 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Anyway, the tl;dr version is this is not a 'one size fits all' device, nor is it intended to be. How Apple will handle in-store tryouts once the product actually becomes available is anybody's guess but I suspect it is going be significantly more complicated than it would be for demoing an iPhone or Mac.

The difference is most likely going to be more like buying clothing, pret a porter versus tailor made.

I also wonder about people using this sort of technology, which messes with both what and how you see, for several hours then hopping in a car and driving in heavy traffic. I predict a lot of lawsuits.

Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.2 
Affinity Designer 2.3.1 | Affinity Photo 2.3.1 | Affinity Publisher 2.3.1 | Beta versions as they appear.

I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Well, they talk about doing this after "a quick enrollment process" but from what I have read this enrollment process takes about 30 minutes & is (at least for now) not something a user can do by themselves. But that has nothing to do with what I have been talking about regarding the insert that goes between the googles where the computer, cameras, et al are housed & the face. (If you do not know what I mean, check out the picture in the  https://macdailynews.com/2023/06/09/david-pogue-apple-vision-pro-is-one-freaking-mind-blowing-piece-of-tech/ article.)

As I understand it, this rather large piece must be custom shaped to fit over the contours of an individual's upper face, to prevent light leaks that could interfere with eye tracking, place the screens at the optimal optical distance from the eyes to maximize the 3D depth effects, ensure that the downward facing cameras that read finger gestures are not too close to the cheeks, & of course help provide the most comfortable wearing experience possible.

Obviously I hope, even if users can do the required 3D face mapping to get the data for this with the builtin cameras, they still would have to wait for Apple to give them the proper insert before they can use the device. Apparently, the few members of the press who were able to try out the demo did have their faces scanned & were using inserts Apple provided, but it isn't clear when or how this was done, or if Apple had a pre-made set of inserts for them to use.

Anyway, the tl;dr version is this is not a 'one size fits all' device, nor is it intended to be. How Apple will handle in-store tryouts once the product actually becomes available is anybody's guess but I suspect it is going be significantly more complicated than it would be for demoing an iPhone or Mac.

The device is not for you. It's for positive minded people who see opportunities, not pessimists who imagine only problems.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Old Bruce said:

The difference is most likely going to be more like buying clothing, pret a porter versus tailor made.

Maybe, but as I understand it the insert must provide a proper fit or the device will not perform as it should. It isn't just a set of VR/AR goggles like previous products from other companies. It is a stand alone hardware platform that supports a unique spatially driven UI that involves tracking eye movements (to provide the equivalent of the mouse/pointer functions in conventional UI's) & finger gestures (to provide the equivalent of clicks/taps, swipes, etc.).

So in this regard, unlike for those other products 'tailor made' isn't so much an alternative to ready to wear as a necessity.

The long term effects of using the device on everyday 'un-augmented' perception is anybody's guess but I suspect what is likely to be more of a concern is what might happen while using the device, like if it glitches or something seems so real that the user panics. I can imagine lots of accidents causing damage to property or people from flailing arms & such, but I doubt anybody would be very successful in suing Apple over that. It could be dicier if someone had a heart attack but that is yet another thing that only time will tell us much about.

But now that I think a bit more about this, I wonder about what could happen if the device was hacked, giving hackers access to whatever the cameras show, & maybe creating disturbing experiences intended to cause panic or whatever. Kind of frightening!

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V23.0 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, lepr said:

The device is not for you. It's for positive minded people who see opportunities, not pessimists who imagine only problems.

It isn't that I imagine only problems, just that I am not going to ignore the potential ones that a number of industry pundits, journalists, etc. have expressed concerns about.

It is a new kind of device, not just a better set of AR goggles like some seem to think. It seems naive to think that there will not be significant problems that will need to be worked out before it can begin to justify the hype. After all, Apple has not even said much about exactly when next year this first gen product will become available (apparently only in the US at that point, I suppose in part because text input is voice-driven & they are as yet not confident about how well it will work with other languages or dialects).

Simply put, there are a lot of different technologies that all must work together seamlessly for this product to deliver a positive user experience. I hope Apple can get it all sorted out well enough to do that but it is far from a sure thing.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V23.0 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding the Vision Pro, this 'hands on' article from CNN Business might be of interest to a few of you, both for the positives & negatives the reporter mentioned. The last sentence may be of particular interest ... or not. 😀

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V23.0 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/10/2023 at 1:01 PM, R C-R said:

you are saying it has all the hallmarks of an addiction?

As Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, etc... Yes. I urge you to try it out yourself and confirm whether my assumption was incorrect or not.

See my comics: dearmascomics.com

Heard my Radio Show: mimegaradio.com

Ask for my services: albertkinng.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, R C-R said:

The last sentence may be of particular interest

It's best to approach this with some skepticism. Those of us who have tried using only the basic apps on Vision OS can confidently say it's true. However, once you start using your favorite apps and they run smoothly, you'll be less likely to switch back. Consider how long you'd continue using a Mac if you were limited to only Mail, Facetime, and iTunes.

See my comics: dearmascomics.com

Heard my Radio Show: mimegaradio.com

Ask for my services: albertkinng.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, albertkinng said:

It's best to approach this with some skepticism.

Same for any prediction about how a device that is at least 6 months from its final version will perform out in the wild vs. in Apple's carefully controlled environment.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V23.0 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Guidelines | We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.